Topic: TLs vs. 414s

[Bdifr78]

Hey All,

I am at the point where I want to get a pair of LD mics to play around with and need help with the decision.  I really like the AKG 414s, one of the new versions with the subcards of course.  But I also seem to love the sound of the ADK TLs.  So I would love to hear people's opinions on the comparison of the two.  I am looking for opinions on sound quality, and of course VALUE.  Seeing that I could get a new pair of TLs for around $500 less than a used pair of 414s, I think that will make it hard to argue that the 414s are a better value but you gotta factor in the subcards.  So please fly your opinions at me and don't be shy with reccomendations of other LDs either.  The reason I am focusing on these two mics is because any other LD mic that I know of that I would want are gonna be way out of my price range for an upcoming purchase.  I have certainly heard people argue this case before but when doing a search I couldn't find a good comparison thread.  Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Joe

[bagtagsell]

how often are you going to run subcards?  seems like a very seldom used pattern...

[Bdifr78]

very true...

But might it not be worth it to always have the option?

[sygdwm]

sac up and get the 414's. subcards are sick. you will run them more often than you think.

[Brian Skalinder]

sac up and get the 414's. subcards are sick. you will run them more often than you think.

With my Schoeps, I run subcards every chance I get.  With my 414s, I find myself running Blumlein instead of subcards b/c Blumlein sounds soooooo good!  I haven't even run my 414s subcards yet...that'll change soon.    And I suspect it'll sound mighty fine.

[audBall]

sac up and get the 414's. subcards are sick. you will run them more often than you think.

With my Schoeps, I run subcards every chance I get.  With my 414s, I find myself running Blumlein instead of subcards b/c Blumlein sounds soooooo good!  I haven't even run my 414s subcards yet...that'll change soon.    And I suspect it'll sound mighty fine.

Another 414 vote here.  Given the right circumstances, you may wish you had the subs if you end up going the TL route.    However, I instantly fell in love with blumlein the first time I ran it.   .....soooo dreamy!!     I do think they're worth it for the extra pattern, and yes, you will use it.

[spyder9]

sac up and get the 414's. subcards are sick. you will run them more often than you think.

With my Schoeps, I run subcards every chance I get.  With my 414s, I find myself running Blumlein instead of subcards b/c Blumlein sounds soooooo good!  I haven't even run my 414s subcards yet...that'll change soon.    And I suspect it'll sound mighty fine.

Another 414 vote here.  Given the right circumstances, you may wish you had the subs if you end up going the TL route.    However, I instantly fell in love with blumlein the first time I ran it.   .....soooo dreamy!!     I do think they're worth it for the extra pattern, and yes, you will use it.

A vote for 414s as well.  The 414s are way more sensitive than the TL's (23mv vs 11mv).  Which helps in the "detail" department.  I really liked the 414s when I had them. Though, the TL's are rock solid themselves from the recordings I've heard, I'd suggest the 414s over the TL's if you have the extra money to spend.  They're worth it. 

[SonicSound]

With my Schoeps, I run subcards every chance I get.  With my 414s, I find myself running Blumlein instead of subcards b/c Blumlein sounds soooooo good!  I haven't even run my 414s subcards yet...that'll change soon.    And I suspect it'll sound mighty fine.

Run your Schoeps Blumlein ===>  SWEET

I love the sound of subcards NOS

[Brian Skalinder]

Run your Schoeps Blumlein ===>  SWEET

I would love to!  But I don't have a pair of MK8s.  I don't even have a single MK8 to run M-S.  Figure-8s is one of the big reasons I keep my 414s.  One of these days, I'll have the cash to pick up a pair of MK8s...   

[keepongoin]

i don't think that the 414s are quite as forgiving as the TLs in shitty sounding rooms.  just my experience in running them twice and running the TLs over 150 times.

[Unitmonster]

I love subcards.  Possibly my fave pickup pattern.

[carlbeck]

I am a huge fan of Blumlein & sub-cards. Go for the 414's, you will love them.

[eric.B]

I am a huge fan of Blumlein & sub-cards. Go for the 414's, you will love them.

yes..  and dont forget about m/s..  hmm  come to think of it, as long as the mics are in a location that sounds good with the right config, the 414's will make tasty tapes..  its just that m/s blumlien add a dash of magic to the mix     

[Bdifr78]

WOW!  Overwhelming vote for 414s.  I am in no hurry so I could save a couple more months to get the 414s if that is they I decide to go.

[spreadheadtom]

414's 

[F.O.Bean]

414's 

[dnsacks]

studio projects lsd2 --

ld stereo one piece mic.  Allows you to effortly run blumlein and m/s as well as x/y, etc.  downside is that you can only run coincident configurations. 

I continue to be amazed by how sweet this mic sounds . . . . and can be had for a (relative) song.

[kindms]

I run the 414's and the only pattern i havent tried yet is the subcards. I was under the impression I should be fairly close to source. Am I incorrect in this thinking ?

[Bdifr78]

I run the 414's and the only pattern i havent tried yet is the subcards. I was under the impression I should be fairly close to source. Am I incorrect in this thinking ?

No I think your right.  And I would guess that the question would be how often are you getting close enough to run sub cards with LDs?

studio projects lsd2 --

ld stereo one piece mic.  Allows you to effortly run blumlein and m/s as well as x/y, etc.  downside is that you can only run coincident configurations. 

I continue to be amazed by how sweet this mic sounds . . . . and can be had for a (relative) song.

Yes actually someone reccomended that to me just lastnight.  Dr. FOB(Jim) has been running that Neumann stereo mic recently and claims to love it.  And anyone I have every talked to at a show that owns the LSD2 seems to really enjoy it.

For the price of 414s I could probably buy an LSD2 and actives for my km140s, couldn't I?

[Sanjay]

I would vote for the LSD2, its cheaper, it sounds amazing, and its a great entry point into LD mics

I wouldn not drop the $ for 414's as my first pair of LD's because you have to decide whether you like the sound and carrying around that much stuff.

I ditched the LSD2 because i hate carrying around alot of crap, however I will pick up another one sometime when I'm not so picky. 

Or i'll get an AKG C34 stereo mic mmmmm

thats what i'll do. 

[carlbeck]

I don't think you have to be any closer than you normally would FOB to run sub-cards. I don't make an extra effort to get closer when I want to run subs, I just make sure the venue sounds good. If it does then I flip a coin to see if I want to run Blumlein or subs, that is really the hard part!

[Nick's Picks]

IMO....
the 414s have it all over the TLs.  sure, the TLs are great value mics.  nice sound for the money.  but the 414s are in a different class.

the new ones w/the sub cards..great and all, but the old B-ULS series DO NOT SUCK, and can be had cheaper.  no sub card.  big Fn' deal.  if it sounds so good that you might want to run subs, then you should be running blumlein.


the LSD...i'll toss in a vote for that too.  but I think the 414s sound better.  have tighter, deeper bass and edge it out on detail and finer aspects.

its the classic AKG sound.  you cant go wrong.

[charles]

Not to rain on the 414 parade here.....but did you know Cascade sells a new matched pair of TL's w/ shockmounts, case, etc. for $760.00. Just food for thought....if perhaps price is a factor. And I was told that with some bargaining they can be had for less.

[Tim]

how often are you going to run subcards?  seems like a very seldom used pattern...

they were my most used/favorite pattern on my u89s

I can't imagine not having them

YMMV

[Bdifr78]

how often are you going to run subcards?  seems like a very seldom used pattern...

they were my most used/favorite pattern on my u89s

I can't imagine not having them

YMMV

MMMMMMM...U89s

[Bdifr78]

What actually is the difference between the 414B-XLS and XLII?

Also, what is the best price that any of you have heard of for a new pair of either of these?  I don't imagine that many of these newer models pop up used that often on the yard sale.  I usually see the ULS version.

[eric.B]

correct me if Im wrong..
tlII's are a mic made for vocals I believe and are not recommended for far field taping..  they have a boost in the high bands..  the xls's are the new "model" of the uls (i think) and have the added subcard pattern.. 

[kindms]

correct me if Im wrong..
tlII's are a mic made for vocals I believe and are not recommended for far field taping..  they have a boost in the high bands..  the xls's are the new "model" of the uls (i think) and have the added subcard pattern.. 

this is correct

[nic]

how often are you going to run subcards?  seems like a very seldom used pattern...

while I havent had my 414s that long, I have used the subcards in every instance...whether its NOS, X/Y(onstage) or even M/S!
they are by far my favorite pattern.
as for TL vs 414...the first thing I noticed is that the 414s dont have quite as noticeable a high-frequency bump that the TLs do.
low end seems a bit smoother as well. also, the 414s weigh about 1/2 that of the TLs!!

the TLs are very good mics and I loved them while I owned them, but the 414s are a much better mic overall, regardless of the subcard pattern.

[Bdifr78]

Let's say I bought an LSD2 just to see if I like running LDs.  Does anyone think I would be disappointed in the lack of detail compared to my 140s?  I have found a nice deal on an LSD2 and could take the plunge right now and if I like running LD I could still probably buy the 414s in January.  At that point I would feel it necessary to sell the C4s I have, it really is looking like I might not use them again.  Anyway my main question at this moment would be, do you think I would be taking too far of a step down if I went with an LSD2 in overall detail and quaility from my 140s to adequatly compare whether I like running LDs?  I feel it wouldn't be the same case with the 414s...

Thoughts and opinions are highly needed.

[Nick's Picks]

the LSD is very detailed on its own.  All of the tapes i've heard w/them have been through T+mod UA5s and V3s.  no lack of detail at all.
but if you were farther away from the source, say in some OTS, then your 140s would be better.  LD mics just dont work well from a distance...generaly speaking.

so no...I dont think you'd be taking a big step down.  You'd get all the LD love from the LSD.  go for it.

overall, my experience has been that SD mics are superior "all around" for ambient recording.
thats why you dont see the pros taping orchestra's w/LDs.  always 4011's, 4006's and schempzies for the most part.  YMMV, but you'll find out for sure with experience.

[eric.B]

the lsd2 is a very good mic and I dont think you will notice a "lack of detail" with it..  its low end is lean and it is limited to coincident patterns, but all in all, for the money, it is a verrry good mic.

[keepongoin]

overall, my experience has been that SD mics are superior "all around" for ambient recording.
thats why you dont see the pros taping orchestra's w/LDs.  always 4011's, 4006's and schempzies for the most part.  YMMV, but you'll find out for sure with experience.

funny, cuz a have seen more U-89s than anything.

[eric.B]

overall, my experience has been that SD mics are superior "all around" for ambient recording.
thats why you dont see the pros taping orchestra's w/LDs.  always 4011's, 4006's and schempzies for the most part.  YMMV, but you'll find out for sure with experience.

I would agree with this..  for "all around taping" absolutely..   most venues dont sound all that good and the SD's off axis characteristics handle them well(ie: sound reflected off the walls, the back, etc).  This is why most tapers use SD's because they can be used in any/all situations and will still make a decent(sometimes great) tape/recording..     but.. 

nothing beats LD's when the soundsource is optimal and the venue sounds sweet.. 

[carlbeck]

This is real easy to fix, buy LD's but run up front at all times 

[BC]

overall, my experience has been that SD mics are superior "all around" for ambient recording.
thats why you dont see the pros taping orchestra's w/LDs.  always 4011's, 4006's and schempzies for the most part.  YMMV, but you'll find out for sure with experience.

funny, cuz a have seen more U-89s than anything.

at symphonies??     I always see SD's hung at classical events, the only time I see U89's is in front of a fat lady singing.    But of course YMMV.

I'll be the one dissenter and say that I never liked the sound of 414's for taping PA systems. Especially from a distance and at bassy shows, something always sounded funny in the low end to me. Though thinking back most of the 414 tapes I heard that I am referencing were from far back (taper section) in large arenas.

[Nick's Picks]

every technical paper about the production of some classical recording is always done w/SD mics. I've never seen anything else.

[F.O.Bean]

cause SD's are superior

just messin yinz

[Nick's Picks]

no..you're right.  they are.


I love the fat LD soundstage.  but its hard to be FOB w/big mics. 
people yell at you.

[F.O.Bean]

no..you're right.  they are.


I love the fat LD soundstage.  but its hard to be FOB w/big mics. 
people yell at you.

i agree w/ you, and thats the first time i think i was ever right

[Mojowill]

Joe, I talked with Dr. Fob at the state theater a while back and he was running some LD mics (neumann I think) sub cards split on wither side of fthe sdbd.  he said it sounds great running that way.  Since you hit the Stae a lot, thought that might help.  AKG great mics.

[beanstalk]

I used the ADK LD for less than a year and loved them. Great sound, great product. I recently sold them and the next LD will be the AKG 414s but I feel that ADK are the best LDs on the market for $$'s. Really diging the 414 sound these days.

[Bdifr78]

Joe, I talked with Dr. Fob at the state theater a while back and he was running some LD mics (neumann I think) sub cards split on wither side of fthe sdbd.  he said it sounds great running that way.  Since you hit the Stae a lot, thought that might help.  AKG great mics.

Thanks Will, that does help.  I am thinking that there is no reason for me to go cheap here.  And I have been finding some great deals on matched sets of 414s brand new from authorized dealers on ebay so I think I have made my decision.  I might not make the purchase for about a month or so now, but I am almost certain that is the way I am gonna go.  I love bright mics, and from the clips I have listened to of the 414s they are very bright in most situations and still have that LD sound.  The multiple patterns is probably the biggest reason I am looking to add some LDs to my collection and to my knowlege the 414s are the only affordable mic with all 5 patterns, so...

[Nick's Picks]

I wouldnt' call the 414s bright.
but they do have that akg sizzle.

[eric.B]

they do have that akg sizzle

  =  the midrange has a "bite" to it

[Bdifr78]

they do have that akg sizzle

  =  the midrange has a "bite" to it

Call it what ya want, it's appealing to me!

[Brian Skalinder]

they do have that akg sizzle

  =  the midrange has a "bite" to it

I would agree with this sentiment re AKG LDs.  Not so much for AKG SDs, though...