Topic: Help needed on sp-cmc8-mics..

[Hman]

I'm planning on buying some new SP-CMC8 mics, and I want to be sure I understand this good/right.
At the SoundProfessionals ordering-site you can add one of the 2 types sensitivity-options:

- High sensitivity for low to moderately high sound levels;
- Add low sensitivity modification for very high sound levels;

I only tape rock-shows, so I guess I should pick the 2nd option then(??).
Just want to be sure of this.. any thoughts?? 

[nicegrin]

Yes! The second option for loud rockshows!

I guess it differs abit from different mics but this modification lowers the distortionrate at 114 db from ~5% to 0.5%.
If you browse the forum for the 4.7k mod I'm sure you will find some interesting post by Chris Church who invented the mod!


 

[Belexes]

Agreed. I have a set of these with the mod. (see sig)

I have yet to use them since I had the mod done.  If you ever record anything quiet, you may want to check out the ST-9100 Church Audio pre, which will give you up to +20 dB.

[Liquid Drum]

You don't need the mod for these mics, apparently degrades the performance.

Chris Church will test them for you if you send them to him and he will do the mod if needed for a great price.


(Sorry if I got this wrong Chris)

[Liquid Drum]

Read this thread:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,96633.0.html

[Belexes]

You don't need the mod for these mics, apparently degrades the performance.

Chris Church will test them for you if you send them to him and he will do the mod if needed for a great price.


(Sorry if I got this wrong Chris)

"Degrades" isn't the best terminology really. What Chris went on to say in the thread:

"The reason why you dont want to do the mod if you dont have to is simple if your mics are "fine" then you are losing 10 db of gain unnessisarily. Also there is NO loss in frequency response what so ever from this mod."

No frequency loss, just a loss of gain that you may or may not need.

[Liquid Drum]

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info. +t

[nameloc01]

If the mics are clipping either....        a. They arent good mics...                      b. They arent being powered correctly.                               and while i hear these dont need the low sens mod...i say they nor the 853/943 dont need them either. The mod is simply a less expensive route than running a 3wire phantom setup. Its that simple. Not saying the mod doesnt work...it does not make much sense to me to lower the sensitivity, thus possibly causing need for an additional pre to get them back up to where they were to begin with and also negating the " less cost" issue. Also causing possible problems with factory warranties. If anyone cares to argue this again i'll put some samples of my stuff up and we'll see how neccesary the mod really is (not) it all basically comes down to how much money you want to spend initially. My 853s and complete 3 wire setup cost 600.00 and short of recording a nuke bomb going off...they will not clip. period.

[Javier Cinakowski]

AT853Rx-> PS2-> HiMD   

not any better than 

AT853(4.7k)-> HiMD   

IMHO.....



The 4.7k mod provides a very similar powering situation as the phantom and performs the same, and is MUCH less bulky and convieneint...


I will be happy to compare recordings with you....  I got lots of 853's with 4.7k, 2.2k and phantom...

[Will_S]

...it does not make much sense to me to lower the sensitivity, thus possibly causing need for an additional pre to get them back up to where they were to begin with and also negating the " less cost" issue.

The loss of gain is relative to two wire, NOT relative to phantom power.  Another way to look at this would be that doing the 2 wire mod like SP does on their base CMC4 mics actually RAISES sensitivity. 

With 3-wire or 4.7K modded mics or phantom powered mics an additional pre is not necessary for loud music.  For that matter a HiMD has a pretty decent built in preamp and would probably do fine on softer music as well.  But acoustic music recorded AT853Rx>PS-2>JB3 would sound pretty hissy just like 4.7K AT853s>BBox>JB3 would.

Edit:  And furthermore, 4.7K modded SP CMC4Us cost $225 and a Church Audio 9100 pre costs 230.  Add them up and that's $455, a lot less than your $600 setup.
Plus, SP offers a 10% discount to TS.com members and Church has the 9100 at $180 in the Retail thread.  That makes $383.  So your economic argument doesn't make sense either.  (Though to be fair, if you shop around you can get an unmatched pair of AT853Rxs and a PS-2 for $390 as well.  But plugging a PS-2 into a minijack recorder will require a ~$15 adapter cable or some soldering skill.)

[nameloc01]

You guys were not paying attention...i said one "benefit" of  the mod is supposed to be cheaper than a 3wire phantom setup. My setup complete was 600.00 hom much would it cost to buy the mics...ship them to someone to mod...pay for the mod.. And then add a pre because the sensitivity got lowered. Any one have an exact price? Then what if said modded mics shit out? How would said mod affect the AT factory warranty? I mean i have seen " people" state that the " best" way to run them is with the mod and maybe pre....can one of you guys explain to me how in even half of the issues stated above  that the mod is a better option. I am not seeing it... Unless you can get away with not using the pre and just save a couple bucks...(possibly at the cost of the warranty)

[Javier Cinakowski]

You guys were not paying attention...i said one "benefit" of  the mod is supposed to be cheaper than a 3wire phantom setup. My setup complete was 600.00 hom much would it cost to buy the mics...ship them to someone to mod...pay for the mod.. And then add a pre because the sensitivity got lowered. Any one have an exact price? Then what if said modded mics shit out? How would said mod affect the AT factory warranty? I mean i have seen " people" state that the " best" way to run them is with the mod and maybe pre....can one of you guys explain to me how in even half of the issues stated above  that the mod is a better option. I am not seeing it... Unless you can get away with not using the pre and just save a couple bucks...(possibly at the cost of the warranty)

yes, you can use the 4.7k mics without a pre.  The 3-wire and 4.7k both have less gain than a 2-wire setup.  For loud sources they both perform about the same...

If you buy your pair of mics from soundpros they will do the mod and you will still be set on warranty.

It is cheaper and more convienient to do the 4.7k.  your setup was $600, a pair of 853's with 4.7k is half that price...

I was paying attention!   

[nameloc01]

Hmm. Unless i am mistaken (i am going to call) i paid 299 for my mics -no mod and your saying they are now 225 with the mod ? Actually...they were 299 with the phantom adaptors. And the ps2 was 200 ...so i was wrong, i paid 500.00 not 600. So the mics you say are 225 and chris' pre is 280 ( will work with the sp mod?recommended?) thats already a few bucks more than i paid and i wont ever need any other stuff..and on the warranty..how does chris' mod affect it? Apparently his is better than sps?  And also you are still gonna need a 2 wire bb on top of the mod so add some more $ on top of that 505.00. Still waiting to hear how all of this is better.

[nameloc01]

One more thing...this is all based on new gear, not used

[Church-Audio]

Hmm. Unless i am mistaken (i am going to call) i paid 299 for my mics -no mod and your saying they are now 225 with the mod ? Actually...they were 299 with the phantom adaptors. And the ps2 was 200 ...so i was wrong, i paid 500.00 not 600. So the mics you say are 225 and chris' pre is 280 ( will work with the sp mod?recommended?) thats already a few bucks more than i paid and i wont ever need any other stuff..and on the warranty..how does chris' mod affect it? Apparently his is better than sps?  And also you are still gonna need a 2 wire bb on top of the mod so add some more $ on top of that 505.00. Still waiting to hear how all of this is better.

Ummm its not the SP mod its MY MOD.. That's the first thing I want to clear up......

The second thing is you dont need to run these mics three wire to get three wire performance from them.. You can DO MY MOD.... and get all the performance of your set up with half the size and weight. And you can use the moded mics and plug them into a STANDARD plug in power mic jack and they will work just fine with out a PREAMP OR BATTERY BOX.

Now for the ultamate performance you should add one of my preamps or a preamp but thats not 100% nesssisary. Your argument is moot. Is phantom power better then my preamp and a pair of modded mics? well if your running a really expensive preamp you could argue that. But if your running a UA5, my 9100 will smoke it for sound quality and noise floor. End of argument.

I did not invent this mod so I could sell more preamps lol.. I invented it because I needed to make sure The mics I sell WORK as ADVERTISED... meaning when I say the distortion is 0.5% at 114db at 1k IT IS. It just so happens that my mod works with AT 853 mics as well.

And as far as a warranty is concerned the warranty is not effected by my mod what so ever every single LAV mic company out there assumes you will have to solder on the proper connector for your application That's because these mics were never EVER designed for what you guys use them for they were designed for lectures and theatrical applications where they are plugged into a belt pack transmitter. And further more most of the AT phantom adaptors that dont have a HPF switch actually have a HPF set at 80hz that can not be turned off so your actually getting less bass with "some phantom adaptors" again because these mics were never designed for live music recording but SPEECH where you dont need to go down to 50hz... 

Why have I sold so many preamps and mics OVER 3000 and counting? My package is cheaper and SMALLER then a phantom power supply and a separate preamp. And when your using small little mics like the 853 I suspect you want smaller.

And ummm my preamp is not $280 it never has been $280 right now its actually on sale for $140.00 


Chris