Author Topic: Good "open" mic's (Read 6292 times)

travelinbeat · « **on:** April 06, 2009, 01:12:30 AM »

I'm considering blowing my tax check on some decent open mics. Among other things, I'm already planning on upgrading from my iRiver H120 to an R-09HR and picking up a pair of Chris Church's CAFS omni's (I already have his CA-14's, 11's, and 9100 Pre). I am considering dipping my toes into the world of open recording. It looks like these guys still have AT3031's for sale at $169 / ea. I know I'm really asking for trouble wih this question, but does anyone have any inputs as to some cheap-ish (~$200ea) "open" mics that I could buy to fly without feeling embarrassed? (I love Chris's mics, but they sure look dinky up on a 9'-12' pole!). Also, It seems to me that the world of open recording requires more gear (A to D's, Power, Pre's, etc....). What peripheral items would I need to run along with my open mics?

Ideally I would like a set with swap-able caps... those seem neat. And please keep in mind that I don't need anything top of the line! I'd love to cop some MBHO's or something, but I work in baby steps!! (I started taping with a Tiger Talkboy for chrissake!) Thanks in advance, as always, for any and all inputs!

Jeremy Lykins · « **Reply #1 on:** April 06, 2009, 01:28:07 AM »

Have you looked at the Busman mics? They run $500 for a set (just a bit outside your budget), but you get three sets of caps, shocks, and some other stuff too.

travelinbeat · « **Reply #2 on:** April 06, 2009, 01:34:48 AM »

looks good-- on sale for $450 too =). Are they pretty popular though? How do people like them?

As long as I've been a member here, I've never really paid much of any attention to these full-sized, open taping mics; I'm really out of touch with what's held in high regard and what's not so popular. With Busman's mics I would need XLR cable plus a power supply plus perhaps an analogue to digi converter? Is that right? So with wires and everything it'd look like this:
Mics > XLR > Power > XLR > A2D > Cable > R-09HR ?

Belexes · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2009, 08:00:14 AM »

Quote from: travelinbeat on April 06, 2009, 01:34:48 AM

looks good-- on sale for $450 too =). Are they pretty popular though? How do people like them?

I love them and for the price and what you get in the package it was made for people that want to dip their feet into open taping. Prior I had owned the SP C4's, but that was before the BSC1's existed.

stevetoney · « **Reply #4 on:** April 06, 2009, 08:45:31 AM »

You asked me in a PM to post why I'd had thoughts (in another post) related to giving up my high dollar rig in favor of using Church Audio.

For me, open taping offers three major benefits over stealth, in order of diminishing importance to me; 1) it allows you to fly the mics above crowd chatter, b) it frees you up to enjoy the show a bit more, c) it gives you more options related to gear.

You should ask yourself which of these three are important to you. If c) is not important to you, then I'd ask myself why I feel the need to switch gear at all. IOW, your mics perform really well and you like the sound, then why do you need anything different? In my mind, there's nothing in the above equation that says that open taping means you need SD mics, or LD mics. For my own tastes in mics and the sound sampling that I've done on the archive, you aren't gonna get a sound improvement by going open and buying $250 SD mics. However, as others have mentioned, there are SD mics out there that provide a variety of capsule options (factor c) above). However, I also note that the CA-14 is also available with optional configurations, so again I'm not sure what is gained. To me, it's all a matter of whether or not you feel your sound is being improved by a switch in mics.

The bottom line of the above paragraph is that I would absolutely not worry about buying SD or LD mics for open taping just because open tapers seem to run SD or LD mics. There's nothing wrong or socially unacceptable with flying tiny mics! Same thing goes with buying preamps and recorders.

In terms of the recording itself, it's all about the sound. I find that for the money, the Church Audio gear delivers a sound that I like. For me, I've asked myself why I have between 4 and 5 thousand invested when I can get close to the same sound with Chris's products at a fraction of the cost. The LMA is my best friend for evalating these decisions, and these decisions are personal based on the sound that you like anyway.

For my ears, I haven't found a mic in the sub-$500 price point that sounds as good as the Church gear.

In fact, as I've invested more and more in my rig, there's been various degrees of excitement, but also a level of disappointment. For the money, I expected better sound. What I learned is that incrementally better sound costs TONS more money.

You should ask yourself what your expectations/goals are. If the sound is your primary factor for satisfying yourself in your hobby and playing around with gear isn't that big a deal (expecially considering that your sound might suffer because of it), then all you need to enjoy the major benefits of going open is a mic stand.

Church-Audio · « **Reply #5 on:** April 06, 2009, 08:53:46 AM »

Quote from: travelinbeat on April 06, 2009, 01:12:30 AM

I'm considering blowing my tax check on some decent open mics. Among other things, I'm already planning on upgrading from my iRiver H120 to an R-09HR and picking up a pair of Chris Church's CAFS omni's (I already have his CA-14's, 11's, and 9100 Pre). I am considering dipping my toes into the world of open recording. It looks like these guys still have AT3031's for sale at $169 / ea. I know I'm really asking for trouble wih this question, but does anyone have any inputs as to some cheap-ish (~$200ea) "open" mics that I could buy to fly without feeling embarrassed? (I love Chris's mics, but they sure look dinky up on a 9'-12' pole!). Also, It seems to me that the world of open recording requires more gear (A to D's, Power, Pre's, etc....). What peripheral items would I need to run along with my open mics?

Ideally I would like a set with swap-able caps... those seem neat. And please keep in mind that I don't need anything top of the line! I'd love to cop some MBHO's or something, but I work in baby steps!! (I started taping with a Tiger Talkboy for chrissake!) Thanks in advance, as always, for any and all inputs!

Busman Audio would be a good choice if you want to support the local guys. If you feel brave these might be very good maybe not.. but worth a look

http://cgi.ebay.ca/SYNCRON-S-10-CONDENSER-MICROPHONE-PAIR-1966-67-KM-84_W0QQitemZ170317722157QQihZ007QQcategoryZ41466QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

su6oxone · « **Reply #6 on:** April 06, 2009, 09:13:49 AM »

If you can squeeze out a few more bucks, I think the best option is a pair of used beyerdynamic mc930s with a denecke ps-2 with 1/8" out for phantom and keep using the iriver. This setup might run up to $600-700... but it's all about the mics. I would just save up until you can get the good stuff (and sell your other gear to help fund the new purchases).

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #7 on:** April 06, 2009, 09:26:37 AM »

Whatever mics you get, do some listening first. While I agree the Beyer's sound great, especially for the price, they have a rather "dark" sound that may not appeal to everyone. The Busman mic recordings I've heard, on the other hand, have a "brighter" sound -- that, too, may not appeal to everyone. There's no accounting for taste, takes all kinds, etc.

su6oxone · « **Reply #8 on:** April 06, 2009, 11:23:56 AM »

^^^ QFT

Btw, someone is selling AT4041 for $300/pair. Seems like a decent option.

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,119164.0.html

sam · « **Reply #9 on:** April 06, 2009, 12:30:15 PM »

If you are happy with your recordings, and you are the one that matters, stay with what you have. You really should listen to as much stuff as possible of the type of stuff you tape before making a decision on what you want. If it is more than you can spend tight now, wait until you can afford them. I sold my MBHO's about a month ago and went to 480's because the cards sounded netter to me for what I tape.

NOLAfishwater · « **Reply #10 on:** April 06, 2009, 01:14:56 PM »

Quote from: tonedeaf on April 06, 2009, 08:45:31 AM

You asked me in a PM to post why I'd had thoughts (in another post) related to giving up my high dollar rig in favor of using Church Audio.

For me, open taping offers three major benefits over stealth, in order of diminishing importance to me; 1) it allows you to fly the mics above crowd chatter, b) it frees you up to enjoy the show a bit more, c) it gives you more options related to gear.

Don't forget d) you don't have to wear a pair of Depends to the show anymore

rastasean · « **Reply #11 on:** April 06, 2009, 01:44:51 PM »

If you're worried about tiny mics on huge light stands, look at DPA mics.

Also look at the Avatone mics:http://www.avantelectronics.com/CK-1.htm
They are made in china but you can get great results from them.
Rode NT5s are worth looking at.

I would tend to think the AT3031s would be a fairly poor choice for open music recording.

Gutbucket · « **Reply #12 on:** April 06, 2009, 01:52:18 PM »

Coffee houses often have open mics on Monday evenings. Good depends on who shows up.

(Evan) · « **Reply #13 on:** April 06, 2009, 03:23:57 PM »

Not to derail the topic, but how do you guys think the Busman's compare to the Oktava MC-012's? Similar price point and all....

rsimms3 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 06, 2009, 04:36:39 PM »

Just as a heads up for those following along with interest, and travelinbeat already sent me a PM of interest, I have a set of Avatone CK-1s that Busman modded in the YS. Link in my signature. They worked really well for all my applications and really the room was always the issue as opposed to not liking the flavor. Overall I would say honestly that I didn't get as much of the high end as I expected. I now have some 460s which I have only ran once so I haven't really made a well informed opinion if it was a step in the direction I want to be in. Definately the AKGs are great mics paired with my Busman UA-5.

deadheadcorey · « **Reply #15 on:** April 09, 2009, 10:03:55 PM »

2nd! avantones ck-1s

travelinbeat · « **Reply #16 on:** April 10, 2009, 03:54:22 AM »

Any more opinions of the Avatones?

Fried Chicken Boy · « **Reply #17 on:** April 12, 2009, 12:29:52 AM »

Quote from: rastasean on April 06, 2009, 01:44:51 PM

I would tend to think the AT3031s would be a fairly poor choice for open music recording.

I beg to differ. I have a pair of AT3031's that I use occasionally and have gotten very good results, albeit maybe a touch bright like AKG sdc's but it depends on the venue. If my memory serves me correctly (and please tell me if I'm wrong

) I believe spyder9 used to fly these mics through a pre and into an Edirol R-09 with good results. You can find quite a few of his and other people's AT3031 recordings on the Live Music Archive.

Having never personally used them, I've heard that the AT4041's (mentioned earlier in the thread and in the YS) are similar (and more expensive). I know mikesalvo and others have flown them and say great things about them. $300 for the pair sounds like a good price, too.

The Busman set, indeed, seems to be one of the best deals out there right now. Can't comment on the Avantones. Good luck!

goodcooker · « **Reply #18 on:** April 12, 2009, 07:44:27 AM »

Tyler (salmonite) used to run a set of Avantones with his stock R4. Last summer at KC Widespread Panic his hypercard source turned out fantastic....better than my Peluso cardioid > Busman mod R4 source...the only variable being he was clamped to the balcony center and I was on the floor directly below him but off to one side a little.

If I had the ching I'd get those modded Avantones in the yard just because I could get them and all three cap pairs for less than I could get another pair of caps for my AKGs (and because they have been modded by a member of TS who I've done biz with in the past who stands by his work)

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #19 on:** April 12, 2009, 08:15:09 AM »

other mics to ponder:
- T.H.E.
- M-Audio Pulsar IIs (nice stereo kit for under $400)
- Peluso
- Josephson
- AKG c460s. they pop up cheap pretty often.
- Audix micro series

rjp · « **Reply #20 on:** April 12, 2009, 09:33:35 PM »

I'd also add AKG Perception 170 to the list - the Perception series are AKG's budget line, but the 170s have sounded sweet whenever I've used them, and I've found some recordings on the LMA using these as well. The LMA recordings tipped the balance when I was deciding whether or not to pull the trigger.

The 170s' drawback: no interchangeable caps - they're standard cardioids, and nothing else. Also, I haven't seen official matched pairs for sale, but mine at least sound identical.

To my ears, they're warm-sounding, with good bass (low pipe organ notes come out very nicely), and clear midrange and treble. They aren't $1000 mics, but they're still a noticeable step above the LS-10 internals - and the internals aren't bad.

SmokinJoe · « **Reply #21 on:** April 12, 2009, 10:09:44 PM »

Asking our opinion on what mics to get is like asking "what should I make for supper tonight?" Everyone will have an opinion, but that doesn't mean you would like it. Tastes vary.

That said... mics by themselves aren't a "system", mics (and how you point them) and a preamp are a "system" and the "system" is what gives you the sound. C4's > UA-5 > H120 is a pretty common combo... and it is for a reason... because it sounds pretty good for a decent price. I don't see it as much as I used to, but it's still a good combo. There should be a ton of shows on the LMA with C4 > UA5. I don't remember seeing any of these in the yardsale lately, the going rate is probably around $200ish for mics and another $200ish for the UA-5. That is putting a good preamp/AtoD in front of your H120, and should provide cleaner gain than cranking up the analog gain on you H120.

travelinbeat · « **Reply #22 on:** April 12, 2009, 10:24:42 PM »

Quote from: SmokinJoe on April 12, 2009, 10:09:44 PM

Asking our opinion on what mics to get is like asking "what should I make for supper tonight?" Everyone will have an opinion, but that doesn't mean you would like it. Tastes vary. [...]

Very true! I expected 101 answers and opinions when I asked! I've been reading all of the replies and scouring LMA for samples of your suggestions. I've had a great time listening to what you're all contributing and running over to LMA for samples. So far I think I'm leaning towards Busman's mics, but I'm not nearly decided 100%. I look forward to reading more recommendations before pulling the trigger some time in the next week or two.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #23 on:** April 13, 2009, 07:10:26 AM »

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/PulsarIIMatchedPair.html
I'll post this again for consideration.

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=media.media_photos&PID=18f145682dac323a2ae6e530765ff0a6
you get *a lot* for the money. not to mention, they sound great. Much more natural than the Studio Proj. C4s (which are a tad bright). No interchangeable caps., but that is not a bad thing. IMO, you'll learn more and do it faster when using just a pair of cards. You then start to mess with placement, and finding out which stereo config actually compliments the room.

Ryan Sims · « **Reply #24 on:** April 13, 2009, 09:24:50 AM »

I run a pair of Audio-Technica ATM450s. They're also fixed cards. I feel they absolutely smoke for the money and I am very fond of them.

Check them out:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ATM450

illconditioned · « **Reply #25 on:** April 21, 2009, 06:30:35 PM »

Quote from: O-Can on April 21, 2009, 02:34:45 PM

Quote from: deadheadcorey on April 09, 2009, 10:03:55 PM
2nd! avantones ck-1s

Not to detract from Avantones specificly, it might be good to remind newcomers that Busman's sd mics is essentially the same body and cap grouping that is the Avantone, as well as other "off" brands from China. It's a popular "badge" that probably comes out of one facility over there... just guessing.

Busman's mics are different in that while he gets his hardware from the same Chinese source, his business is based on the complete overhaul of the electronics within the mic body. This provides a consistency of product that can not necessarily be said of a purely Chinese sourced mic.

Food for thought.

Personally, the Studio Projects C4 set is hard to beat at $200-$250 pair. Nice package/case, omni and card caps, roll off and -10dB cut switchable, and about 2/3rds the size of the Avantone/Busman bodies. They lean towards the bright side. They don't surprise you with their bass curve but it's not terrible. For my use I like them on acoustic instrumentation a lot. While I've stepped up a bit in mic performance, I still hang on to the SP C4s for their omnis and overall value.

I wonder how much of the mic sound is due to the capsule vs. the body. You can mod the body all you want, but if you don't have a consistent capsule then...

I do agree that C4 (used pair, $200 or just a bit more) is a great investment. After you tire of them you can always leave a pair at your local club, or lend to local musicians for recording rehearsals, etc. I've got two pairs of these still...

Richard

Author Topic: Good "open" mic's (Read 6292 times)

stevetoney