Author Topic: Schoeps caps comparisons (Read 6074 times)

wolffman · « **on:** May 18, 2005, 12:01:02 PM »

Hi all-

I have a schoeps rig and run 4v's. I'm looking at the mk21h and was wondering what people think of these. What situations have you used them in? What do you think they are good for? Thanks for any comments people have. I tape in Colorado, so I can be in a tiny little venue up to Red Rocks...

Thanks!

wolff

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #1 on:** May 18, 2005, 12:13:41 PM »

The MK21H has a substantial HF hump I suspect would be too bright for my tastes. FWIW, I use and love the straight MK21. For reference, MK21 on top with the HF hump, regular, flat MK21 on the bottom:

plucks · « **Reply #2 on:** May 18, 2005, 12:56:45 PM »

mk4v's have a small HF boost compared to the MK4's right off the bat, The 21s are suhweet tho!!! go for the mk5

See you this summer john??!!

wolffman · « **Reply #3 on:** May 20, 2005, 06:01:29 PM »

this didn't stir up as much conversation as i thought. Aren't there any schoeps users on this website?

Thanks to the two guys who did respond.

Phil, I'm not sure of my show schedule this summer, what are you gonna check out?

I think i'm gonna get the mk21's. I mostly do onstage or FOB taping around here, soooo...

wolff

Unitmonster · « **Reply #4 on:** May 20, 2005, 06:30:09 PM »

there are 2 MMW shows on bt.etree.org that have onstage MK2h/CMC6 >SX-M2 >AD-500 > P1 if you want to check them out. Indeed, a bit bright, but still pretty sweet IMO. They're Norway shows from 1997.

Rob D. · « **Reply #5 on:** May 20, 2005, 06:40:11 PM »

Hey Jon! Its Rob D. from Seattle. Welcome!!

neutrino · « **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2005, 06:42:55 PM »

Are you looking at the MK21's as a replacement for your MK4V's or an addition? I've only recently been taping with MK4's in small clubs and up to 3500 seat venues and I'm more then impressed with the output. In Chicago, the clubs/bars are quite "chatty" so what I lose in ambience by not using subcards I make up for in a much less noisy recording.
dB-

OOK · « **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2005, 07:03:52 PM »

altho I don't own Schoeps(I have MBHO's) I am very familar with their sound......I prefer the 4's to the 4v's in most situation....hence I feel the same about the 21's...The 4v's and the 21h's are well suited for enveriorments where you need to compensate for excessive bass. they are bright capsules....not that its a bad thing....One friend run 4v's and everything sounds great the other friend run 4's and again everything sounds great.......its all a matter of taste.....the one capsule I would like to hear and haven't yet is the mk5 card/omni cap...you can switch between paterns with this cap by slidding a switch on the side of the cap.....(I wish my Ho's had something like that) all I can say is let your ears be the judge...they won't fail you..

Tim · « **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2005, 07:08:11 PM »

the mk21's are great John, really nice outdoors, upfront, and onstage.... subcards are my favorite for red rocks. see you this summer!

btw - definitely try and run them NOS (30cm/90*)... the pattern is really wide and they need some room to breathe. cascade media sells the Kwon NOS bar if you have actives

Joe w. · « **Reply #9 on:** May 20, 2005, 10:09:39 PM »

never seen any tapes from the HF boosted 21's. The normal 21's have a very nice high end as it is. very nice and rounded with great color and presence. They can be used in most hockey arena and amphitheater type fob situations with great results...and of course outdoors. From the tapes I have heard and made, I never felt the need for any boost to the HF. If you have a good PA and you aren't too far from the source, You should be fine with the normal 21's, IMO. Location is the key with any situation but it is critical with the 21's, IMO.

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #10 on:** May 22, 2005, 04:10:41 AM »

the mk5 bcvaps are DA BOMB, the card cap in the mk5 has a slight HF boost and its just enuf mIMO, that mk5 is one GREAT sounding cap for having 2 options

sideshowbob runs them and has made all of his cardoid tapes w/ them, theyre GREAT capsules

IMO, id go w/ the straight mk21 over the mk21h, the mk21 has a great thump to it and i cant imagine taking that away

jmerin · « **Reply #11 on:** May 22, 2005, 10:35:24 AM »

Quote from: Bean on May 22, 2005, 04:10:41 AM

the mk5 bcvaps are DA BOMB, the card cap in the mk5 has a slight HF boost and its just enuf mIMO, that mk5 is one GREAT sounding cap for having 2 options

sideshowbob runs them and has made all of his cardoid tapes w/ them, theyre GREAT capsules

IMO, id go w/ the straight mk21 over the mk21h, the mk21 has a great thump to it and i cant imagine taking that away

i just purchased the 21 caps. going to have them in time for summer camp

jon

SonicSound · « **Reply #12 on:** May 22, 2005, 11:09:14 AM »

Quote from: jmerin on May 22, 2005, 10:35:24 AM

i just purchased the 21 caps. going to have them in time for summer camp

jon

Congratulations

+T
What you recording next in Philly?

jmerin · « **Reply #13 on:** May 22, 2005, 11:14:08 AM »

Quote from: sonicsoundiii on May 22, 2005, 11:09:14 AM

Quote from: jmerin on May 22, 2005, 10:35:24 AM

i just purchased the 21 caps. going to have them in time for summer camp

jon

Congratulations +T
What you recording next in Philly?

probably dark star orchestra, i am going to summercamp next weekend. going to be awesome.

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #14 on:** May 22, 2005, 06:36:32 PM »

nice jon, you will def love those FOB moe tapes w/ the 21's

jmerin · « **Reply #15 on:** May 22, 2005, 09:50:32 PM »

Quote from: Bean on May 22, 2005, 06:36:32 PM

nice jon, you will def love those FOB moe tapes w/ the 21's

looking foward to hear them, maybe i will go fob for moe.down, usually i go to the side of the board

jon

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #16 on:** May 22, 2005, 09:58:27 PM »

Quote from: jmerin on May 22, 2005, 09:50:32 PM

Quote from: Bean on May 22, 2005, 06:36:32 PM
nice jon, you will def love those FOB moe tapes w/ the 21's

looking foward to hear them, maybe i will go fob for moe.down, usually i go to the side of the board

jon

IMO there is a HUGE difference going from either side to DFC/FOB, come up w/ me in the middle oif FOB and we'll have us a great time

i am gonna try and borrow ck62's for this year too, do some split omni stuff or borrow a j-disc setup

wboswell · « **Reply #17 on:** May 22, 2005, 10:07:20 PM »

I've run the 21's for a little over two years. I almost picked up a used pair of the 21h's that were on ebay but decided to go with a new pair of 21's instead. I'm really happy with my choice as I find the HF boost to be fatiguing after a while. I really like some of the 4v tapes I've heard, but for everyone that I like, there's another that wears on me a little bit. Part of the problem could be running the 4v's backward in Schoeps ORTF bar (70º/17cm) and not a true ORTF, but its tough to determine a pattern as most are FOB tapes but only some have that fatiguing quality. I'm sure some of it has to do with my PSB speakers, which tend to be on the bright side of neutral.

Thinking a little more outloud about this, I just don't see the need for the HF boost for this capsule as you defintely don't need it when recording onstage, and I don't think you need it FOB. Maybe if you were going to run the 21's OTS, but I don't think that would be my first choice to run that far back...

From the charts, its obvious that the 21's already have a slight boost which begins at the same spot as the 4v's, only not as sharp a rise nor quite as exaggerated.

edit:
mk21

mk21h

mk4

mk4v

jmerin · « **Reply #18 on:** May 22, 2005, 10:08:10 PM »

Quote from: Bean on May 22, 2005, 09:58:27 PM

Quote from: jmerin on May 22, 2005, 09:50:32 PM
Quote from: Bean on May 22, 2005, 06:36:32 PM
nice jon, you will def love those FOB moe tapes w/ the 21's

looking foward to hear them, maybe i will go fob for moe.down, usually i go to the side of the board

jon

IMO there is a HUGE difference going from either side to DFC/FOB, come up w/ me in the middle oif FOB and we'll have us a great time

i think that i will, run the 4s and 21s

i am gonna try and borrow ck62's for this year too, do some split omni stuff or borrow a j-disc setup

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #19 on:** May 22, 2005, 11:18:42 PM »

WOW, the mk21h/cmc6xt would be UBER Bright, at least on paper it looks that way

jon-i may run diff caps each nite for the sake of trying something diff, i have ran ck61's for 2 yaers at moedown and last year i ran ck63 hypers and the tapes are some of my favoritew tapes ive ever made, very clear and detailed

so first nite a may run ck61's for the long one set show, then the ck63's the long day and then the ck62's the last 2 set day

so when is the damn lineup gonna be up

creekfreak · « **Reply #20 on:** May 23, 2005, 01:09:02 AM »

if you don't fall victum to wind, hypers in a good spot can give your tapes a real in your face feel, some of the shows I have done outdoors in a good spot sound damn good.

jmerin · « **Reply #21 on:** May 23, 2005, 08:41:30 AM »

all i know is that last year my moe.down tapes came out awesome. ran the 4s, to the right of the board

jon

creekfreak · « **Reply #22 on:** May 23, 2005, 10:01:15 AM »

well, they do have a good sound system there...that always helps

wolffman · « **Reply #23 on:** June 01, 2005, 02:04:18 PM »

sweet, thanks for all the input. My 21's arrive tomorrow!

i'll be doing all kinds of ortf vs nos setups since I have those 2 bars.

I've run my 4v's mostly 70/17cm (backwards ortf) I have noticed a change with I run ORTF with the vark bar, but not much.

It will be nice to have a couple sets of caps and bars and do all kinds of experimentation!

thanks again for all the input from everyone...

wolff