Topic: Running AT822 (or XY) outdoors in a small amphitheatre...where to set up?

[Will_S]

I'll be taping Bruce Hornsby and his band at a very small outdoor amphitheatre shortly. 

Specifically, this small outdoor amphitheatre:
https://www.washoecounty.us/parks_secure/ticketing/
here's a picture of the PA at one show, not sure it's always set up like this:
http://www.adamsonproaudio.com/images/products/spektrix/applicationpics/hawkins.jpg

I'll be using an AT822 stereo mic, XY cards at 110°.  My friend and I have two seats between us.  One is 3rd row center, the other is 11th row center, just in front of and beside the lights/mixing board.  From the third row, I'd have to run head height.  From the 11th row, I might be able to get away with running a little higher.

Any thoughts on which should sound better?  If there's an opening act I'll just listen in both spots, but I don't think there is one...

[jibooer]

CLOSER THE BETTER is a good way to look at it, IMO and head height should be fine, unless you are a smurf.

[poorlyconditioned]

CLOSER THE BETTER is a good way to look at it, IMO and head height should be fine, unless you are a smurf.

The closer the better *provided you're in the image of the speakers*.  Some venues I go to have speakers on either side of the stage, both pointing straight ahead.  And there are no "fills" on the stage.  So the only way to get good sound is to move back a bit.  Or, better yet, run a pair of split mics.

By the way, I think the AT822 sounds great!  I've hacked mine so I just use the mic head itself and plug into a battery box.  You could wear this on your head or whatever .

  Richard

[Will_S]

CLOSER THE BETTER is a good way to look at it, IMO and head height should be fine, unless you are a smurf.

The closer the better *provided you're in the image of the speakers*.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at, I wondered if people thought 3rd row would be too close to be getting much signal from the main PA.  There were a couple pictures at the site I linked, but they don't show much detail.

This one might be more helpful:
http://www.adamsonproaudio.com/images/products/spektrix/applicationpics/hawkins.jpg

Now if things are setup like that, would third row be too close?  I can't tell if those speakers on the front step are monitors angled back to the band or mid/high units from the PA pointing out at the crowd.  So would I get better sound from the main PA in the 11th row?

By the way, I think the AT822 sounds great!  I've hacked mine so I just use the mic head itself and plug into a battery box.  You could wear this on your head or whatever .

  Richard

Did you leave the head "grill" structure intact?  I've actually thought of doing something similar, I have AT853s for stealth and some open situations but they just don't handle wind very well (and I am told this place gets windy).  I'm thinking I could probably fit the AT822 head + dead rat inside a Kangol if it weren't for the long body.

I wonder if you could do the hack in an easily reversible way, since I like the freedom of being able to stick the AT822 on s stand and move around when I don't need to be stealthy.  I guess it would be easy enough to hollow out the base of the mic and run the cable to the battery box out through it.

[poorlyconditioned]

Did you leave the head "grill" structure intact?  I've actually thought of doing something similar, I have AT853s for stealth and some open situations but they just don't handle wind very well (and I am told this place gets windy).  I'm thinking I could probably fit the AT822 head + dead rat inside a Kangol if it weren't for the long body.

I wonder if you could do the hack in an easily reversible way, since I like the freedom of being able to stick the AT822 on s stand and move around when I don't need to be stealthy.  I guess it would be easy enough to hollow out the base of the mic and run the cable to the battery box out through it.

Yes, I left the head grille intact.  As for mounting, I just attach it to the end of a flexible gooseneck.  I haven't done this yet, but that is the plan.

  Richard

[jibooer]

i have cuurently run mine into a UA5 and found an improvement in the recording quality, not quite the mod as mentioned above, but it goes to show you that it is a decent mic.

the sound profile is very important, but as long as you keep the whole 110 degree spread in the back of your mind, you'll be all set! good luck and let us know how it turns out!

[Will_S]

Thanks for the tips.  This will definitely go up on etree if it turns out, and I'll post here if it does.

[rokpunk]

Heh, weird...it's a ground stacked Adamson Spectrix line array system. Very odd configuration....but the speakers do cover pretty well (120 degrees or so), and with the fills on the stage steps, you should be fine in the 3rd row. Normally ground stacked line arrays just don't do it for me.....fly those suckers and now yer talkin'!

[nihilistic0]

stacks for venues like that typicall stay more or less the same it seems


Id say move to the 11th row.  Id ony wanna be close if I was right by the stack

[rokpunk]

stacks for venues like that typicall stay more or less the same it seems


Id say move to the 11th row.  Id ony wanna be close if I was right by the stack

they aren't typical "stacks" it's a line array system, ground stacked. in theory, it shouldn't matter where you sit (within reason) since the system design is meant to cover equally throughout the venue. with the throw of the cabinets being 120 degrees, and with the fills on the stage, it shouldn't matter that you are so close in the 3rd row. line arrays do act funny when they are stacked instead of flown...so YMMV.

[Will_S]

Definite mixed experience on this one.   

Scoped thing out before the start of the show and ruled out the 3rd row seat.  Definitely chatty people around (my friend who took the seat confirmed this continued all night), and the horn tweeter of one of the stage-step fill speakers (which was not an Adamson Spektrix unit like the side PA) would be beaming straight at the mic.  The sound guys let me set up on a little raised platform just in front of the soundboard, DFC, mic ended up about 7.5' in the air with my mic stand at its shortest setting.  There was also a little buffer area around the platform, which I figured would help with crowd noise.

First set sounds ok, not my best tape but pretty listenable, maybe a little hollow and a little muffled (due to the dead rat?) but it was definitely windy enough that my AT853s would have been a bad choice, so I can't complain too much.

Second set started out ok and then...well listen for yourself to the last 60 seconds of Standing on the Moon at the link below.     Still trying to figure out exactly what went wrong...

http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/Hawkins/index.html

I ran AT822 > Church ST-20A > iRiver.  The ST-20A was on the -27 dB setting (which Chris says is actually +9dB) and a further 9dB gain was added on the iRiver, I then normlaized in post.  The iRiver was no where near clipping, -6dB at the absolute hottest, and I've fed it a hotter signal at home (out of my computer headphone jack) with no problem.  Recording a similarly hot signal either straight into the iRiver or through the preamp at home results in no problem.  And during Valley Road in the first set SPLs must have been just as high.

That leaves me thinking it must be either someone bumped a cable loose, or the battery in the AT822 died (I actually loaned the AT822 out to my friend before I'd listened to the end of the show and realized something was wrong, so I haven't been able to test that yet).  The thing is, I'm pretty sure no one bumped the cables, and the battery hadn't been used anywhere near as many hours as AT says it should be good for (and I've been careful not to store it long-term in the mic, or switch the mic on in storage).  Would a dying battery sound that bad that quickly?

[kuuan]

By the way, I think the AT822 sounds great!  I've hacked mine so I just use the mic head itself and plug into a battery box.  You could wear this on your head or whatever .

  Richard

I have an AT822, would like to use a battery box but don't dare yet because in it's specs it says:

Warning: The AT822 is designed for battery operation only. Do not attempt to use when phantom power is present. Possible damage to the microphone may result.

You do use it with a battery box though.
Until how much max. Voltage, according to your experience, is it save to power the AT822? As phantom power could be defined from 12 Volts up, may I asume that I won't harm the AT822 with a max. 9Volt BB?

[jibooer]

so you were using the Church component as a pad, not a pre-amp right???