Topic: KORG MR-1 pt.II

[tedyun]

I'm wondering if it is an MLC vs SLC issue like you pointed out. I see that there are SLC CF cards, but a 16 GB SLC RITEK CF card is almost the same price as a 32 GB Mtron SSD.

hmmm...I just wondering if something like these SD card to ZIF adapters could work for a mod of the MR-1?
http://cgi.ebay.com/SDHC-SD-MMC-1-8-micro-IDE-ZIF-Hard-Disk-Drive-adapter-/370407073583?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563dfb672f#ht_3483wt_1026

http://www.buyincoins.com/sd-card-to-1-8-ce-zif-50pin-ide-hdd-adapter-converter-product-1721.html

It is supposed to support up to 32 GB SDHC.

I don't think SDHC cards will work as they seem to be much slower in general versus CF. 


It looks like to me that the MR-1 writes to it's HDD in somewhat of a random fashion which is not compatible with slower Flash solutions and/or the firmware is very conservative on timeouts on writes.

2 Channel 24/88.2 should run at about = 4234kbit/s ~ 4 Mbps -> seems to work
2 Channel 24/96 should run at about = 4608kbit/s ~ 4.5Mbps -> does not work
2 Channel DSD 1/2.8224Mhz should run about = 5649kbit/s ~ 5.5Mbps -> does not work


So you would think the Transcend CF Flash Memory rated at a max Sequential Write speed of 60MBps would be sufficient to handle this.


According to the other thread to get it to work you need around 100MBps Sequential Write Speeds to make this work.
Such as this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139283&cm_re=32GB_CF-_-20-139-283-_-Product

[RTD]

ok, maybe the SD version is worth a try if you use a class 10 Card. The adapter is just 20 bucks and I could use the SD for my camera. My intention would be to make the MR1 really portable and noiseless. So a 16GB SD would do the job. If I try I will post it.
But I got a bit confused following the threads:  What is a successful combination CF cards, SSDs, adaptors and ribbon cables?

[tedyun]

Its been so long that I forget!

So far:

CF cards -- incomplete functionality
CF Adapter: "Startec" brand

SSDs -- Mtron 16 GB 1.8 ZIF

Ribbon -- the stock ribbon in the MR-1 should be compatible with the adapter, or the adapter will come with one. Basically it is a white ribbon with blue ends. On one side of the end is contacts that must make contact with the ZIF connector on your adapter or drive. The other makes contact with the motherboard.

Be careful of the ZIF latches. They come in different types. There are latches that flip up, latches that slide back. I mangled the latch to the RunCore SSD that I tried because I thought it flipped up, but instead it slid out!! (still works though)

ok, maybe the SD version is worth a try if you use a class 10 Card. The adapter is just 20 bucks and I could use the SD for my camera. My intention would be to make the MR1 really portable and noiseless. So a 16GB SD would do the job. If I try I will post it.
But I got a bit confused following the threads:  What is a successful combination CF cards, SSDs, adaptors and ribbon cables?

[RTD]

thanks for the summary

[H₂O]

Just grabbed a used Samsung 1.8" SSD ZIF that uses SLC - If it works (sold as untested with warranty - fingers crossed) - I will post results here.


I used some cheapo China ZIF > CF adapter (paid $7 for 2 shipped from China) - there is no logic between the ZIF and the CF card as CF cards follow IDE/PATA standards - seemed to work fine.

[H₂O]

Here's another Samsung 64gb SSD that may work with the MR-1


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330516057741


Currently going for $31

[H₂O]

Here is more info on SLC vs MLC


http://www.supertalent.com/datasheets/SLC_vs_MLC%20whitepaper.pdf


BTW - I got the Samsung SSD and it is having all types of issues -> I think it's bad so I am going to return it for a refund -> others have reported flawless success with 64GB Samsung SLC 1.8" ZIF SSD's

[tedyun]

SUCCESS WITH THE CF-MOD!!!


Thanks to H2O's observation that SLC based SSD drives work, but not MLC based SSD, I went ahead and ordered an SLC based CF card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820183236

I couldn't find many SLC CF cards, and this one was the only one I could find from a reputable place.

Bottom line is that I got a marginal improvement in battery life. With the HDD and SSD, I was getting record times of around 2.5 h, and with the CF card, I got a record time of just over 3 hr. I would estimate around 3 h, 5 min, which is the last time I looked. The unit did a hard shut down when it ran out of juice, and I could only recover 2 h 42 min of recording.

I don't think that this is the same problem that H2O and I had with truncated file fragments because in those cases, the damaged files were randomly distributed, and I could not access them. In this most recent trial, all the fragments were intact and playable. I probably could get the whole 3 h if I stopped the unit manually and let it write out the file and PRJ file.

Anyway, I will still be recording with an external battery, since 3 h is just barely enough to cover a whole concert, including the opener.

The CF card has the advantage over the SSD drive in that the SSD drive got very hot, whereas the CF card got warm.

I am wondering why I got such a long run time with an MLC CF card (~ 5 h), when SLC memory is supposed to be lower power consumption. It could be that my battery is wearing down.

Anyway, bottom line is that money is probably better spent on getting a larger HDD. Unless you really want to go solid state, the price is not worth the advantage at this point.

[jb63]

OK.
So I just got done reading all of these posts.

Interesting to me because I like these little recorders, but the question I just kept asking as I was "watching" you guys take them apart and put them together... here are the quick questions I have:

1) You are unhappy with the hard drive because it uses too much battery power. Also it can be noisy? Also it introduces errors?
2) The replacement hard drives you are using are the same size, possibly smaller, correct?

I personally have never had any issues with any files made with the stock unit, and I usually just record DSDIFF files.
What I do take offense to is the battery life. I was able to get a solid 2.5 hours for a long time, but of the 3 units I own, we're down to 13mins with my first one (200+ recordings), 2hrs with the 2nd one (33 recordings) and a new one I still haven't tested.

At this point, each one just needs an external pack, and if you are taking them apart, wouldn't the real task to be user replacement of the internal battery. I've often thought of trying to mod this with a bigger battery, even if it made the unit slightly wider and I had to use some kind of rubber to reseal it...

Anyway, just wondering if any of you have solved andy issues with the battery or if you were just working on the hard drive issues.

jb

[tedyun]

The hope with going to solid state (at least to me) was that I could increase the battery life. For the shows I see, 2.5 h can cover the main act, but if I try and get the opener(s) I would be in danger territory. There was also a post where someone was moving while taping, and he reported that the HDD skipped. Also, HDDs eventually fail, whereas solid state is supposed to have greater longevity.

Others have replaced the HDD with a larger size, but to me, 16 GB is enough for what I tape. If I start doing festivals, I may think about putting in a 32 GB.

The Mtron SSD is pretty much identical size to the the stock HDD. In fact the stock HDD comes with a plastic cover which I removed and placed onto the SDD. The CF adapter/CF card is pretty much the same size and approximately the same thickness too. Maybe less thick.

I have thought about replacing the battery, but I am certainly not the expert with that. I don't know if it's simply a matter of finding a LiIon pack with a compatible Voltage and Current then hacking the cable/connector. Also, I've tried to take the stock battery out, but it seems to be in there pretty tight. I've tried tugging at it with no success. If you've never taken apart one of your MR-1's, the connector is on the opposite side of the motherboard that the ZIF connector is on, so one would need to take out the M/B to get full access to the connector.

If anyone can verify that the procedure would be to cut the leads and solder the leads from the replacement, then find me a compatible battery, I would be game. I'm desperate to extend the battery life!

OK.
So I just got done reading all of these posts.

Interesting to me because I like these little recorders, but the question I just kept asking as I was "watching" you guys take them apart and put them together... here are the quick questions I have:

1) You are unhappy with the hard drive because it uses too much battery power. Also it can be noisy? Also it introduces errors?
2) The replacement hard drives you are using are the same size, possibly smaller, correct?

I personally have never had any issues with any files made with the stock unit, and I usually just record DSDIFF files.
What I do take offense to is the battery life. I was able to get a solid 2.5 hours for a long time, but of the 3 units I own, we're down to 13mins with my first one (200+ recordings), 2hrs with the 2nd one (33 recordings) and a new one I still haven't tested.

At this point, each one just needs an external pack, and if you are taking them apart, wouldn't the real task to be user replacement of the internal battery. I've often thought of trying to mod this with a bigger battery, even if it made the unit slightly wider and I had to use some kind of rubber to reseal it...

Anyway, just wondering if any of you have solved andy issues with the battery or if you were just working on the hard drive issues.

jb

[H₂O]

I would think the 2 reasons to swap out the internal HDD would be for the following:
 - Greater capacity with a larger HDD -> you can easily find HDD upto 120GB that should work with the MR-1 (80GB drives have been reported working fine)
 - Longer battery life with Flash -> You can get up to 2x the battery life using Flash but as we are seeing it looks like you need SLC which may only give you -> If we can ever get low power and fast enough flash you may be able to record a whole show with the internal battery (4 hours record time would be ideal).


I have NEVER had any problems with noise or errors using the internal HDD -> I don't buy these arguments with this unit.

[RTD]

I have NEVER had any problems with noise or errors using the internal HDD -> I don't buy these arguments with this unit.

Lucky you. I have both of these problems. The noise is very subtle and occasionally I get drive errors of the Korg at startup and only a hard reset can help. My MR1 behaves like a bitch and I don´t know really if I want to spend another 180 bucks to mod it. A cheaper solution with non SLC CFs I would appreciate. Another important thing for me is that I want to carry around the MR1 while recording. Not easy with the harddrive. From this reason I would buy the MR2 but dunno if its really worth that much like 700 Euros.

btw: is SLC and UDMA the same?

[tedyun]

The only problem I had with the HDD was when I was recording, then it gave me a write error or something. There was plenty of space left, so I don't know what happened. From then on, I have been reformatting the drive before I record.

I think I am going to stick with the SLC CF card, PM me if you're interested in the 16 GB SSD.

I have NEVER had any problems with noise or errors using the internal HDD -> I don't buy these arguments with this unit.

Lucky you. I have both of these problems. The noise is very subtle and occasionally I get drive errors of the Korg at startup and only a hard reset can help. My MR1 behaves like a bitch and I don´t know really if I want to spend another 180 bucks to mod it. A cheaper solution with non SLC CFs I would appreciate. Another important thing for me is that I want to carry around the MR1 while recording. Not easy with the harddrive. From this reason I would buy the MR2 but dunno if its really worth that much like 700 Euros.

btw: is SLC and UDMA the same?

[jb63]

I have both of these problems. The noise is very subtle and occasionally I get drive errors of the Korg at startup and only a hard reset can help. My MR1 behaves like a bitch and I don't know really if I want to spend another 180 bucks to mod it. A cheaper solution with non SLC CFs I would appreciate. Another important thing for me is that I want to carry around the MR1 while recording. Not easy with the harddrive. From this reason I would buy the MR2 but dunno if its really worth that much like 700 Euros.

Interesting.
It really sounds like you have a lemon.
I would doubt that it is under any warranty, but that is too many problems that make you want to throw it out rather than try to fix them.
I carry 2 of them now, and sometimes there is some serious bump & grind, and I've never had any issues except the battery plug or the input plug coming loose.

I definitely want to try an MR2, but then the MR1 wasn't affordable to me until it went under $200.
We'll have to wait for this year's crop of new stuff to take down the prices and generate some sales and some used gear for that.

Are you dead set on using this recorder, or are you just stubborn like me, when i wanted to keep using my SBM-1?

jb
 

[igene]

Has anyone had a flawless transplant of a CF card ?
(yes - I've read all the posts..)
I mean issue free...

From what I gather -
If you have the correct converter>
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11814

and a fast CF card > (another good source)
http://www.buy.com/prod/transcend-32-gb-compactflash-cf-card-1-card-pack-400x/q/sellerid/20451128/loc/101/213259553.html

all you need to do is replace the HDD with the new rig and turn on, format and go...

I'm very interested in this deck (for the hi-resolution),
 but I want to know IF I get one and all the right parts, that I can run it longer w/o issues.

(I don't want an external batt. for stealth reasons)