Topic: KORG MR-1 pt.II

[igene]

"I am wondering if the CF mod stories you read are over at head-fi?"

 Yes. It's the only other place that I found any mod discussions on the MR-1.
And you are right, they make wild assumptions, and are driven by faux-knowledge created by slick advertising
and a bad case of one-upmanship. silly rabbits !

OK, I'll start researching the Hoodman RAW card  (100Mb/s) to see if it's SLC.
I think it is. I read somewhere that it's the same flash NAND memory used in SSD,
which I believe is usually SLC , but I'll check it out.

then the battery after.

also the write speed (lowest tolerances) of the MR-1

Thanks for the update on the test. That helps a lot. Points me in the right direction.

(?) Do you think it won't work due to technology differences ?
ie...In order for a CF card to write at 100Mb it needs to be UDMA in a UDMA device ?
Could there be a MR-1 UDMA support conflict ? or not ?

...more questions...
-----------------------------------------------------------
add:

this doesn't look good >
http://www.hoodmanusa.com/UDMA_page.asp

there may be slower speeds in a non-UDMA device to a UDMA card.
So a 100Mb card may write slower, defeating the whole purpose.
no actual data yet.

[H₂O]

When the next gen of MLC/SLC chips come out on made with a smaller die size (i.e. like sub 25nm or something) I think you will see power requirements and price go down with these advances.

[tedyun]

As I found out the hard way (ie., I have 2 SSD drives that do not work in the MR-1), SSDs can be of either MLC or SLC. The only ones that work in the MR-1 are made with SLC chips (H2O pointed this out).

UDMA cards work in non-UDMA devices, but the high-speeds aren't achieved. I am pretty sure the MR-1 does not support UDMA because this protocol is only available on devices that us CF as a storage, ie., DSLRs (unless the people at Korg secretly intended for people to do the CF-hack)!

I really don't think it's a speed issue. I forget how fast a DSD transfers, but even the slowest non-UDMA card theoretically should be able to handle the write speed of the DSD stream. Someone calculated it a few pages back in this thread.

Bottom line is that I don't think you can record a DSD stream to MLC memory. Thus we are relegated using SLC devices, in which case battery life is only marginally improved. It would be nice to find an MLC device that works, but so far we've had a number of failed attempts:

1. two MLC SSD devices do not work;
2. I count at least 5 different MLC CF cards being used here and over at head-fi, with no successful reports of recording a DSD stream. I've used 3 different MLC CF cards, H2O has used at least 1, and among the head-fi'ers, they've used at least 2 different brands.

So the choice is yours to try to make it work with an MLC device, but it turns pretty expensive pretty quick! If you have other uses for CF cards and SSDs, then it might not be so bad. I use my MLC devices as storage for my MTII, my camera, and for shuttling files between my computers.

I think at this point, the better option would be to find a higher capacity battery.

"I am wondering if the CF mod stories you read are over at head-fi?"

 Yes. It's the only other place that I found any mod discussions on the MR-1.
And you are right, they make wild assumptions, and are driven by faux-knowledge created by slick advertising
and a bad case of one-upmanship. silly rabbits !

OK, I'll start researching the Hoodman RAW card  (100Mb/s) to see if it's SLC.
I think it is. I read somewhere that it's the same flash NAND memory used in SSD,
which I believe is usually SLC , but I'll check it out.

then the battery after.

also the write speed (lowest tolerances) of the MR-1

Thanks for the update on the test. That helps a lot. Points me in the right direction.

(?) Do you think it won't work due to technology differences ?
ie...In order for a CF card to write at 100Mb it needs to be UDMA in a UDMA device ?
Could there be a MR-1 UDMA support conflict ? or not ?

...more questions...
-----------------------------------------------------------
add:

this doesn't look good >
http://www.hoodmanusa.com/UDMA_page.asp

there may be slower speeds in a non-UDMA device to a UDMA card.
So a 100Mb card may write slower, defeating the whole purpose.
no actual data yet.

[tedyun]

igene, running an external batt isn't too bad, even for stealthing. This is my MR-1 rig with the external battery on it. I usually run with the MR-1 cover on, but you can cut some space by taking the cover off. This is my battery:

http://www.amazon.com/MACALLY-External-Battery-all-iPods/dp/B000CGG8LW/ref=pd_sim_e_4

They are out of production and a bit hard to find, but it is the only one that seems to work with the MR-1. The problem is that the MR-1 periodically needs a high current, so you need to find one that has over 1 A. Most have 500 mA or less current. I've tried a few. For the low current ones, I keep having to unplug and replug the battery because the on screen battery indicator will switch from "charging" to not charging.

The only other solution that worked for me is a DVD battery connected to a voltage regulator (built by BJ here).

Anyone else using a different external battery?

[H₂O]

UDMA is associated with the IDE interface which CF is compliant too - So I would hope KORG implemented this in there IDE interface - as this is a pretty standard mode used by IDE HDD's.


http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/modesUDMA-c.html

[igene]

I found this interesting >

QUOTE :
From > http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/modesUDMA-c.html
"On new systems there are few issues with running Ultra DMA, because the hardware is all new and designed to run in Ultra DMA mode. With older systems, things are a bit more complex. In theory, new drives should be backwards compatible with older controllers and putting an Ultra DMA drive on an older PC should cause it to automatically run in a slower mode, such as PIO mode 4. Unfortunately, certain motherboards don't function well when an Ultra DMA drive is connected, and this may result in lockups or errors. A BIOS upgrade from the motherboard manufacturer is a good idea, if you are able to do this. Otherwise, you may need to use a special Ultra DMA software utility (available from the drive manufacturer) to tell the hard disk not to try to run in Ultra DMA mode. The same utility can be used to enable Ultra DMA mode on a drive that is set not to use it. You should use the utility specific to whatever make of drive you have.

As far as the battery goes, for MY purposes, I would want to concentrate on a higher capacity internal.
(same dimentions w/ higher capacity) I was thinking Li-Poly Ion.
The only downside is shorter battery life.
It would have to be swapped out after ~500 recharges as opposed to maybe 2000 w/ the Li-Ion.
Don't quote me on the exact numbers, it's just a range reference.

My steath rig mentality has been > always to downsize equipt. w/ same or better quality audio quality.
So far I've more or less been sticking to that. That's what I'm shooting for here as well.
              (mics-pre-deck)

So summarizing - This needs to be attacked on a few fronts...

1.> UDMA compatability w/ MR-1 (already there ? or updatable ?)
2.> Is there a BIOS/Firmware/Software utility upgrade ?
3.> Will the final write speeds (based on results of 1 & 2) be fast enough ?
4.> Find compatible SLC CF card  (or SSD?)
5.> Search for higher cap. batt. fitting size requirements
6.> ...will this battery get charged correctly by MR-1 (being of similar yet different composition)

what I can think of so far...

===============================================================
For a size referance :
   you can see that my current stealth deck (Sanyo) is tiny (smaller than my Blackberry Pearl)
but it's only 16bit. The other 2 are 24bit and are great performers.
R-09 (well over 3 years)
VR-10 (about 6 months)
I just got the Sanyo Xacti 3 weeks ago
 (for the size, for Line in use, and for extreme taping situations...)
(not yet concert tested)

[tedyun]

Personally, if I stealthed a lot, I think you're pretty much set with the TEAC. The MR1 is about the same size as the R09HR. I doubt if you'd be able to tell much difference between 1-bit, 24/96 or 24/48


1.> UDMA compatability w/ MR-1 (already there ? or updatable ?)
2.> Is there a BIOS/Firmware/Software utility upgrade ?
3.> Will the final write speeds (based on results of 1 & 2) be fast enough ?

I doubt Korg will release an updated Firmware to increase compatibility with faster drives or CF cards. Being a discontinued product, there really isn't any reason they would want to tweak the HDD interface as it works pretty well as it is. So what we have now is what it is, in terms of the unit talking to the HDD/CF/SSD. If there is some way to test the read/write speeds, I am willing to do it. I have UDMA and non-UDMA cards.

4.> Find compatible SLC CF card  (or SSD?)

The Ritek I linked works, and the Mtron SSD works.

5.> Search for higher cap. batt. fitting size requirements

If you can find it, I will order it! The dimensions I posted earlier are pretty close. I can post the exact dimensions in the next few days when I get another chance to take it apart.

6.> ...will this battery get charged correctly by MR-1 (being of similar yet different composition)

I'm willing to test this!

[igene]

I'll pick up the search tomorrow.

==============================================

Here a recording I made 9-17-10 @ the Highline Ballroom, NYC
with the TEAC VR-10 / CA-9100 / SP-CMC-08

Will I capture audio better than this recording with the MR-1 ?

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZALM04DW

It doesn't matter who it is (you'll like it though).
It's a really good recording w/ a low cost rig.

I don't own a MR-1 yet, but I'm willing to do the legwork and see how far I can get to a solution.
(It would be great to solve this mod)

I just want a comparison from some one who's use it to record @ 2.8

[tedyun]

D/L'ing right now.

I ran CA-11 > CA-9100 > MR-1 for a while. Honestly, I think the 1-bit vs 24-bit is probably the smallest upgrade you could make. In fact there are double-blind studies where "audiophiles" could not tell the difference between a DSD vs DVD-Audio. I am probably sticking with the MR-1 because of stubbornness at this point! Too much money invested to drop it 

The biggest upgrade you can make is probably mics, and after that preamp, but then you are in the realm of open taping. Your stealth rig can probably pull pretty good recordings. Unless you are willing to go bigger in the mics and preamp, I think you're probably at the limit of smallest size, max quality!

I'll pick up the search tomorrow.

==============================================

Here a recording I made 9-17-10 @ the Highline Ballroom, NYC
with the TEAC VR-10 / CA-9100 / SP-CMC-08

Will I capture audio better than this recording with the MR-1 ?

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZALM04DW

It doesn't matter who it is (you'll like it though).
It's a really good recording w/ a low cost rig.

I don't own a MR-1 yet, but I'm willing to do the legwork and see how far I can get to a solution.
(It would be great to solve this mod)

I just want a comparison from some one who's use it to record @ 2.8

[igene]

Don't read the text file until you've listened to the recording.
I don't want you to bias your opinion.

If this mod works this out - I'd be running the same mics & pre with the MR-1

I'm also a gear junkie, so ... it's not like I need another deck.
I'm sure you get it.

[tedyun]

Nice job on the Omar show!

I'm not sure how much better you can get from going DSD.

Don't read the text file until you've listened to the recording.
I don't want you to bias your opinion.

If this mod works this out - I'd be running the same mics & pre with the MR-1

I'm also a gear junkie, so ... it's not like I need another deck.
I'm sure you get it.

[igene]

thanks. It was a great pull. The stars aligned for that one.

...but don't blow the steam out of my search for an answer to this mod.
I don't want to lose interest here. I can get unfocused easily.
The desire or allure of better recordings with new gear is pretty strong though.

I'll get back when I've found something.


only thing I found out so far NEW is that Sandisk makes SSD's

[tedyun]

I don't mean to take the wind out of your sails! I just want to make sure you know what to expect from it. If you hop on board and want to hack it, I think that would be great because the more minds working on this problem, the greater chance we have at cracking it. A lot has been done, so I want to make sure you're up to speed with where we are at.

Personally, my recordings have improved mainly by going to a fully open rig which records in 24/96. I went from CA-11>CA9100>MR-1 to DPA 4021 > V3 > AD2K+ (which has 24/96 as its highest resolution). I run the MR-1 as a backup these days. I was running Neumann KM150 > Aerco > MR-1 briefly, and I think the difference in sound was mainly due the mics and preamps, not 1-bit vs 24/96.

I think the concept of 1-bit recording is cool, it's just that the MR-1 isn't the best implementation for what we do. As long as you can deal with its quirks, you can get a nice recording. The main quirk is the poor battery life, and so far there isn't a good solution for it. At this point I think the only way to mitigate the problem is to use an external or replace the battery. Or just wait it out to see if H2O's prediction that SLCs will draw less power/cost less.

thanks. It was a great pull. The stars aligned for that one.

...but don't blow the steam out of my search for an answer to this mod.
I don't want to lose interest here. I can get unfocused easily.
The desire or allure of better recordings with new gear is pretty strong though.

I'll get back when I've found something.


only thing I found out so far NEW is that Sandisk makes SSD's

[igene]

No worries.... I took the plunge.

I bought an MR-1, so I'm in.   

Now I HAVE to figure this out !

[tedyun]

 

Welcome to the Team! Let's crack this nut.

No worries.... I took the plunge.

I bought an MR-1, so I'm in.   

Now I HAVE to figure this out !