Topic: I need advice...want to transfer my tape collection to flac....help!

[ShermanOaks1972]

Hi....found this site and am real happy...you are the people I need to talk to.  Here's my story (familiar probably):

I was a really active tape trader (primarily GD) from about 1981 through 1986.  My collection was typical, and rather large.  I have lot's of good clean copies and in retrospect, lot's of garbage.  I had taper friends who did most tours during those years and I have clean 1st gen copies of most shows.  I ended up with a couple of thousand cassettes over that time.

So fast forward 25 years or so.  Been getting my Dead fix off the net for some time.  However I have ALL of these tapes just sitting there....so I have pulled the collection out of storage and sent my Nakamichi deck in for revitalization (the guy said for the $150 it's gonna cost to update my Nak BX-300 I might as well buy this "Yamaha KX-W952" for $175...I thought about it and said "fix the Nak").  And now I embark on the daunting task of transferring the tapes worthy of such action to digital format.

MY question is thus...HELP!  Ok, that's more of a statement, or a plea perhaps, but the next step seems to be the toughest. 

I've done some elementary experiments from tape > wav > flac.  All seems fine.  I have used freebies like Audacity and Foobar to get familiar with things.  I'm unsure of what to buy.   I want to be able to upgrade the quality, edit and make adjustments. 

Basically I am after advice from anybody who cares to offer it, anybody who is kind enough to spare a few moments of time. 

What next? 

(Ironic perhaps, because I clearly remember newbie tape traders who would see my list of shows and humbly state they had nothing to offer me in trade...but would I mind making a dozen dubs for them? So here I am...)

How critical/relevant is my soundcard?  Cables?  Adobe, Sound Devices, Samplitude, Wavelab, Sound Forge....what's what? What do I need? What can I get away with? I don't have a huge budget, and wonder if I need one?

I have a couple of thousand cassette tapes.  A certain percentage of high quality tapes are worth preserving.  I'd like to get started...

Thanks for any and all advice....maybe somebody I made a dub for in 1982 is here and by some cosmic twist passes on the advice I seek. 

[rsimms3]

I would recommend getting a sepearte Analog to Digital Converter.  You would have Cassette Deck > ADC > Computer.  I have read that going straight from the Deck to the computer can introduce noise because your soundcard is in the computer with all the other bits and pieces that can pick up interference, noise, etc.  If you use the ADC, it does the conversion to digital and just sends the bits to your computer.  Ediro and M-Audio both make ADCs that you could use for this purpose.  Some use their Edirol UA-5 for this purpose as it is also a popular unit for field recording, especially after doing some upgrades to it.  Moddified ones come up for sale in the yard sale pretty consistently and there are a few probably for sale buried in threads beyond the first page.

I use Adobe Audition for editing and previously used it for recording records to digital format.  I use FLAC Frontend for encoding WAV to FLAC. 

As for what bitrate and sampling for your wave files, that I don't know.  I am not familiar with the limitations of cassettes to say if you should go 24 bit or stay at 16 bit or what have you.

[runonce]

1st thing...check to see if you have anything in your collection worthy of the task...

Inquire with the tapers/sources of your 1st gens to see if they havent already digitized their masters...

If they havent - persue them...volunteer to do it...

Then - think about mastering the tech stuff...

[ShermanOaks1972]

Thanks to you both.  I've been checking out ADC, will look for something that fits my budget and does the trick.  It makes good sense to me to put $$$ into the ADC.  I like the idea of going straight from the Nak to digital, without more and potentially flawed stops along the way (PC noise, soundcard issues, etc).

Once the music is digital I can then look at something like Adobe Audition or whatever to enhance or make adjustments.  As there are many audience sources there is quite a variety of quality in the collection.

I wish I knew what happened to all the guys I was getting my tapes from, but that was a long, long time ago...so I am left with dealing with generational copies.  Majority are 1st gen, so I am hoping the cleaner ones and better shows, are worth saving.

A lot of shows are out there digitized already, but I am sure there are a few hundred quality shows I have worth the effort to convert.

Thanks again.

[Əkoostikal]

IMHO this MiniMe ( http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=130745.0 ) or any MiniMe for that matter would be your best bet for doing tape transfers. Apogee is know for having possibly the best ADC in the business and that seems to be a pretty good price for a MiniMe..... (BTW: I am in no way affiliated with the seller) I just noticed it in the YS and thought I might point you in that direction.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

1st thing...check to see if you have anything in your collection worthy of the task...

Inquire with the tapers/sources of your 1st gens to see if they havent already digitized their masters...

QFT.  Almost all GD shows have been sourced and are available.  I would compare your collection against db.etree.org:

http://db.etree.org/shnlist.php?artist=2&year=1995

They list 99% of all circulating GD sources.

I would also check out www.archive.org:

http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead

They have a very extensive GD collection there.

Terry

[admkrk]

1st thing...check to see if you have anything in your collection worthy of the task...

Inquire with the tapers/sources of your 1st gens to see if they havent already digitized their masters...

QFT.  Almost all GD shows have been sourced and are available.  I would compare your collection against db.etree.org:

http://db.etree.org/shnlist.php?artist=2&year=1995

They list 99% of all circulating GD sources.

I would also check out www.archive.org:

http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead

They have a very extensive GD collection there.

Terry

and if it's not included in either for some reason there is all the work that charlie is still doing.

learning to edit on dead tapes these days is about as efficient as taping to cassettes still. not trying to put you off, but ...

[ShermanOaks1972]

Thanks again, I will check out the MiniMe...

I am familiar with etree and archive, and hit them both, archive almost daily nowadays.

Guys like Miller the others who work with high end equipment, masters and knowledge, well I can't compete with that and not trying to.  However I'm not at the point where I'm gonna chuck 2000 cassettes and just download others...although it is essentially what I'm doing now minus the chucking.

I can say without question I have some shows that are better, deeper, richer sounding than some of what's up on archive.  So to me those are worth flac-ing (for lack of a better term).  I also have some other bands, and other things worth transferring also.

I also like the idea of playing with the music, going through the process of archiving what I have...etc.  I used to dig the whole taping culture, so this seems to clip on the vein that's been dead for a couple of decades.

Listening is so subjective.  I like audience recordings over board recordings, almost all the time.  I saw a good chunk of shows and the live experience does it for me.  Recordings that accurately convey the show, and that includes the crowd, the venue, the music...the night...I enjoy far more than even the cleanest soundboards.  (Matrix is nice...enjoying that)

So I might have a tape that has great acoustics and a good dose of the crowd, that for me makes a better listening experience than what I've found on archives, or what's out there. 

In any case, appreciate the replies, advice, comments, thanks tons!!!!!

[jerazis]

If you have the money.... You should go with DSD transfers to hold the masters on. Korg makes portable DSD recorders and other companies make rack models. I'd say the price for a DSD machine starts at 1000$ and goes up. DSD is at the top of the chain beyond 24 bit 192 khz.  To give an idea of the detail writen in DSD in comparison to 24/192. 1 show is around 8 gigs where as 24bit is half that. I like to keep my transfers out of the PC realm untill it comes to cross fades, flacing,  audio editing, and seeding to torrent sites. So again anolog out of your tape deck and into a DSD recorder is what I would say to be top of the line. But yes the gear mentioned above is all great as well. I've been workin on a bunch og master from an 80's taper as well. This is my lineage....

SOURCE: Nakamichi CM-300's w/CP-4 shotgun caps FOB > D-5

 TRANSFER: By (JAZ) Master Cassettes (Maxell MX100) Tascam 112MKII -> Korg MR-1, 1bit 2.8MHz -> USB -> Korg Audio Gate Software 24bit 48KHz -> Wave Lab 5.0 w/UAD -> R8brain for 16bit 44.1KHz sample rate conversion -> Traders Little Helper flac8

hope this helps happy transfering and if you need a hand with them drop me a pm, I've put out about 100 shows in the last year.

   

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

If you want to get into your tape collection and transfer them, my thoughts:

Analog playback:  if you have no deck, find a Nak Deck and send it off for refurb:  http://www.eslabs.com/

Transfer:  I've been using my HD-P2 via the RCA inputs.  It makes for quick Analog>Digital conversion (ADC) and the CF Card makes for easy transfer to my PC.  Find something similar, it makes it easy.

Tracking, etc.:  I use CDWave to track, Audacity to transfer anything to 16/44, and Trader Little Helper to go to FLAC.  Free software that is easy to use. 

I have about 10 tapes left to transfer and have been looking for a cheap but HQ deck...  No luck so far...

Terry

[ShermanOaks1972]

Again, MANY thanks, I appreciate the advice, exactly what I was after when I posted here.

I do have a Nak BX-300 I've had since the late 1980's.  I had it serviced about 5 years ago, and then it sat for at least the last two years with no action at all, and now it's in again for idler and belts. 

I keep reading and learning, it's certainly not as simple as the old days...Naks>D5...then dub, dub, dub.  Its also amazing how bad the quality of some of what we traded back then actually was/is.

[capnhook]

IMHO this MiniMe ( http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=130745.0 ) or any MiniMe for that matter would be your best bet for doing tape transfers. Apogee is know for having possibly the best ADC in the business and that seems to be a pretty good price for a MiniMe..... (BTW: I am in no way affiliated with the seller) I just noticed it in the YS and thought I might point you in that direction.

 

Doh!  Great idea!.....bet the minime would make 'em sound great, and zero chance of "overs" if you're pushing it.........  +T

Kevin

[sparkey]

The only downside to the MiniMe is that Apogee will no longer service it, I believe.

IMHO this MiniMe ( http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=130745.0 ) or any MiniMe for that matter would be your best bet for doing tape transfers. Apogee is know for having possibly the best ADC in the business and that seems to be a pretty good price for a MiniMe..... (BTW: I am in no way affiliated with the seller) I just noticed it in the YS and thought I might point you in that direction.

 

Doh!  Great idea!.....bet the minime would make 'em sound great, and zero chance of "overs" if you're pushing it.........  +T

Kevin

[frogger]

What I've been doing with my old cassette masters is I play them back on the same D5 they were recorded on (yeah, I'd love to have a Nak but I don't) into my PCM-D50 at 24/48.  Then I transfer the digital file into my Linux computer and track it out with Audacity.  Haven't heard anybody complain about the quality.  There is some hiss in the quieter parts but that's from the tape.  Nice to get those old masters transferred, still have 100's more to go, it's a slow process.  Not to get off track but heard somebody this summer claim they were an old school taper, they had used DATs.  Had to laugh.  I only go back to cassettes in the early 80's but I've met people that used to smuggle reels into shows in the 50's.  Taping is so much easier these days.
Chuck

[sparkey]

into my PCM-D50 at 24/48. 

Is that a Sony unit?  It may have a SBM-1 A>D in it.  Or is the SBM1 20 bit?