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Author Topic: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)  (Read 6803 times)

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Offline hoyt

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Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« on: March 02, 2006, 10:55:11 PM »
So, I didn't think of this before, but I have 3 chucks of this tape because of the 2 gig split.  I ran it low this night and need to normalize it, is there a way to do this across multiple files?  I'm using WaveLab and didn't see a way to do this.  Is this what the Meta Normalizer does?

Thanks!

--hoyt
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Offline shruggy1987

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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2006, 11:01:17 PM »
join the files together and then normalize. 
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Offline rustoleum

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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2006, 07:53:22 AM »
Alternatively, use the "Get Peak Level' feature of the Normalize UI on each of the three WAVs... each run will probably return a different value.  Take the closest to 0 value and then use the "add gain"  feature to add that much gain to each wav.

Ex:
Detect peak returns  -6, -5, and -8 for each of the three wavs, respectively.

Then Add 5db to each WAV (although technically,I guess you'd only want to add 4.9 db so as not to hit 0 on the 2nd wav in this example).

Since the wavs are split up into reasonable sizes you will be less likely to encounter any 2 gig limit issues.  Although it sounds like you still have 2 2-gig files which means you'll most likely need to split those files up further, or use smaller bit-depth temp files for the operations.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 07:57:05 AM by rustoleum »

Offline hoyt

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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2006, 09:15:12 AM »
join the files together and then normalize. 

I didn't think this would work because when I joined the files together, I got a 5.08 gig file, then when I opened it in WaveLab, it only showed at 33 minutes long.  I figured that was WaveLab saying, this file is more than 2 gig, and can't open it right.  Should it be able to open a file over 2 gig?  I thought it would choke on that... 

Thanks!

--hoyt

EDIT: Must be shntool not liking 4 gig, not wavelab.  I can combine two of the files, but trying to join the 3rd causes it to mess up the file before I even open it in WaveLab... hmmm.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 09:55:58 AM by hoyt »
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Offline kindms

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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2006, 12:01:19 PM »
My experience with Wavelab is that it will alllow me to join large files together and I will be able to "get gain" but if I try to render a file (ie dither, change sample rate, or add gain etc )  it will puke and say the file has become too large.

I usually just find a spot I would normally make a track split and cut it up in to smalle files and add the same amount of gain to each indiviual file
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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2006, 12:04:15 PM »
Alternatively, use the "Get Peak Level' feature of the Normalize UI on each of the three WAVs... each run will probably return a different value.  Take the closest to 0 value and then use the "add gain"  feature to add that much gain to each wav.

Ex:
Detect peak returns  -6, -5, and -8 for each of the three wavs, respectively.

Then Add 5db to each WAV (although technically,I guess you'd only want to add 4.9 db so as not to hit 0 on the 2nd wav in this example).

Since the wavs are split up into reasonable sizes you will be less likely to encounter any 2 gig limit issues.  Although it sounds like you still have 2 2-gig files which means you'll most likely need to split those files up further, or use smaller bit-depth temp files for the operations.


Even though doing it this way should theoretically give you the same final level for each, I think there is a good chance they will not match up perfectly and you will hear a slight discontinuity in level. I would try to make sure the split points are not during songs so that if there is a volume mismatch it will be less noticeable or important.

Is your size limit 4GB or 2GB?

If 4 GB, you could combine into two files, and normalize each one. Then you would only have 1 split point where there might be a volume change.

While I was typing this I just saw kindms's post, that looks like a good idea too. I think using adding gain is a better idea than normalizing in this case due to the separate files, this way the volume increase should be constant over all parts.



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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2006, 12:20:48 PM »
Alternatively, use the "Get Peak Level' feature of the Normalize UI on each of the three WAVs... each run will probably return a different value.  Take the closest to 0 value and then use the "add gain"  feature to add that much gain to each wav.

Ex:
Detect peak returns  -6, -5, and -8 for each of the three wavs, respectively.

Then Add 5db to each WAV (although technically,I guess you'd only want to add 4.9 db so as not to hit 0 on the 2nd wav in this example).

Since the wavs are split up into reasonable sizes you will be less likely to encounter any 2 gig limit issues.  Although it sounds like you still have 2 2-gig files which means you'll most likely need to split those files up further, or use smaller bit-depth temp files for the operations.


This is the way I did it but using Soundforge, my wavelab doesn't render properly for some reason. 
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Offline hoyt

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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2006, 12:50:20 PM »
My experience with Wavelab is that it will alllow me to join large files together and I will be able to "get gain" but if I try to render a file (ie dither, change sample rate, or add gain etc )  it will puke and say the file has become too large.

I usually just find a spot I would normally make a track split and cut it up in to smalle files and add the same amount of gain to each indiviual file

I tried the join in WaveLab and got an error when saving that said it could not write larger than 2 gig files.  I feel like I don't know what I'm doing now, which is becoming more obvious :)  But how do you do any "post" on a 24 bit file then?  Say I wanted to run a compression or do some EQ on this too, do I have to find the settings that I like, save them and apply it to all 3 files the same way?  That seems dangerous, but is there no better way to work on 2, or 4+ gig files?

Life is easier in 16 bit! :-X  Thanks!

--hoyt
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Offline nickgregory

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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2006, 01:59:54 PM »
My experience with Wavelab is that it will alllow me to join large files together and I will be able to "get gain" but if I try to render a file (ie dither, change sample rate, or add gain etc )  it will puke and say the file has become too large.

I usually just find a spot I would normally make a track split and cut it up in to smalle files and add the same amount of gain to each indiviual file

I tried the join in WaveLab and got an error when saving that said it could not write larger than 2 gig files.  I feel like I don't know what I'm doing now, which is becoming more obvious :)  But how do you do any "post" on a 24 bit file then?  Say I wanted to run a compression or do some EQ on this too, do I have to find the settings that I like, save them and apply it to all 3 files the same way?  That seems dangerous, but is there no better way to work on 2, or 4+ gig files?

Life is easier in 16 bit! :-X  Thanks!

--hoyt

that is how I do it..work on seperate files because Wavelab chokes on anything bigger than 2 Gb

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2006, 03:03:48 PM »
But how do you do any "post" on a 24 bit file then?

This is one of the reasons I use Adobe Audition instead - it doesn't choke on > 2GB files.  It's a little slower processing, but saves the hassle of manipulating multiple files.
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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2006, 04:38:39 PM »
But how do you do any "post" on a 24 bit file then?

This is one of the reasons I use Adobe Audition instead - it doesn't choke on > 2GB files.  It's a little slower processing, but saves the hassle of manipulating multiple files.

I believe the float point is why wavelab chokes on the file size as it works in 32 bit


ya can simply do a batch processing. No need to do them one at a time. Thats crazy talk.

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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2006, 04:59:39 PM »
But how do you do any "post" on a 24 bit file then?

This is one of the reasons I use Adobe Audition instead - it doesn't choke on > 2GB files.  It's a little slower processing, but saves the hassle of manipulating multiple files.

Aaaah, with audition I can use the multitrack mode, do everything I need to in there (including any dynamic stuff I wanted to do), and then select the parts that form one disc and mix it down to anything less than a 4 gig fille, then save it and then mix down the parts for disc 2.  Then it's back to WaveLab for dithering/ resampling.  Brilliant! :cheers: 

+t's to you guys.  Thanks!

--hoyt
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2006, 05:07:45 PM »
Then it's back to WaveLab for dithering/ resampling.

Just curious...why back to WL for resample/dither?
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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2006, 05:50:29 PM »
Then it's back to WaveLab for dithering/ resampling.

Just curious...why back to WL for resample/dither?

For the UV22 HR dithering function. 
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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2006, 05:56:42 PM »
Im Interested in hearing your RRFB show. My recording sounds like I had the "tin can" switch on. 
Is that what your working on by chance?

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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2006, 06:37:21 PM »
Im Interested in hearing your RRFB show. My recording sounds like I had the "tin can" switch on. 
Is that what your working on by chance?

Nick

Yup, that's what I'm working on.  It's been sitting on my hdd too long.  It doesn't sound great, but I applied a bit of a compressor to bring it all out a bit more.  Should start uploading it to the archive later tonight.  That minute long feedback section sucks - if RR hadn't kept playing I could cut it out, but he's playing the whole time of that squeal so I'm leaving it in with a note in the text.

--hoyt

EDIT:  Oops, by using Audition's mix down function it looks like it automatically made the output a 16 bit file.  Is there anyway to avoid this?  There's no mention of this in the Audition help files, maybe my version is just old?  (1.0 Build 3180)

Double EDIT: So, there's a setting that I didn't know about that I found on the Adobe Audition forums... Options > Settings > Multitrack > Mixdowns, and I can set 32 there.  Okidoki.  I think I'm set this time!  :)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 06:57:25 PM by hoyt »
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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2006, 04:37:55 PM »
with traditional normalization, audio progs scan a file for the loudest peak and amplifies so that the peak attains the loudest level.
 but if you do it while mastering, the songs will still vary in level because our ears respond to a songs "average" level. Metanormalize(wavelab tool) normalizes using RMS(average levels)


WAVELAB:

drag all the files into the main window.
select batch process from the tools menu
click on the input tab, then add file button in the batch processing window, then select ADD ALL.
click on the edit batch plug ins button, when the processor list appears open the plug ins folder, and double click the Meta Normalizer plugin.

after clicking on the meta normalizing plugin, it appears in the left column in the processor list. double click to show the meta normalizer parameters , click on "equalize loudness"(RMS) "check global"(check maximize if possible if you want to use every bit of headroom)then check ok.

click on the processor list OK button
click on the batch process output tab. Click on the folder button to navigate to the desired folder, or create a new one. click on RUN and the files will be metanormalized and deposited where you want...


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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2006, 11:37:03 PM »
But how do you do any "post" on a 24 bit file then?

This is one of the reasons I use Adobe Audition instead - it doesn't choke on > 2GB files.  It's a little slower processing, but saves the hassle of manipulating multiple files.

Doesn't Audition choke at 4GB? If his is 5GB then he is still SOL. I'd add them all in Wavelab, find your peak, then add gain to each file as mentioned earlier. Hopefully Wavelab 6 shows up soon to see how it handles this mess.
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2006, 01:52:09 AM »
Doesn't Audition choke at 4GB? If his is 5GB then he is still SOL.

Nope, at least not for me running Audition 1.5 and an NTFS partition.  Just normalized, resampled, and dithered a 5GB 24/48 file down to 16/44 with no problems.
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Re: Normalize 24 bit source (5 gig file)
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2006, 09:56:08 AM »
Metanormalize(wavelab tool) normalizes using RMS(average levels)


WAVELAB:

drag all the files into the main window.
select batch process from the tools menu
click on the input tab, then add file button in the batch processing window, then select ADD ALL.
click on the edit batch plug ins button, when the processor list appears open the plug ins folder, and double click the Meta Normalizer plugin.

after clicking on the meta normalizing plugin, it appears in the left column in the processor list. double click to show the meta normalizer parameters , click on "equalize loudness"(RMS) "check global"(check maximize if possible if you want to use every bit of headroom)then check ok.

click on the processor list OK button
click on the batch process output tab. Click on the folder button to navigate to the desired folder, or create a new one. click on RUN and the files will be metanormalized and deposited where you want...



+T Teddy.  I've been wondering how to do an RMS normalize in Wavelab for quite a while.  Thanks.   Wavelab is much more confusing to me than Soundforge...

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