Topic: Recording My Own Band & Other Projects

[goodcooker]

I would start very much where Gutbucket suggests and record with your H4N at the front of the stage pointed at the band (maybe from down low behind the vocal monitor angles up to avoid getting them since you'll have vocals in your sbd feed) and send the sbd mix from the FOH mix position (either through an aux send or control room send not sure on that board) to your onstage location through the snake returns.

The idea with this approach is to get complimentary recordings - clarity and detail from the sbd source and room sound from the mic source. The mics will fill in things like guitar amps and drums that are loud onstage but not well represented in the board mix and give some roominess to things that are primarily only represented in the board source like vocals, keyboards and snare/kick. This kinda depends on the size of the venue, if some instruments are DI or mic'd up cabinets, etc... usually smaller venue = less things that are loud onstage being sent to FOH since you can hear them fine in the audience already.

Mixing the two sources is really simple in a free program like Audacity. There's a wealth of threads here about how to accomplish that specific task.

If this works out for you and you want to upgrade at that point you could get a multichannel recorder like one of the Tascam DR series for a couple hundred bucks and a decent pair of condenser mics for a couple hundred. You don't have to spend a bunch to get solid recordings in this scenario. You are kinda in the cat bird's seat since you have access to your own sbd and where to place your mics. If you sprang for a Zoom F6 and a pair of Line Audio CM3 mics you could be making killer recordings for around $800 if you buy used and have a lot of flexibility in your approach.

[ChiroVette]

Okay, I will have to read and study all of the responses in more detail. Um...eventually. Thanks for all the information, but you guys are reminding me why I really need to stay in my own lane here. You guys are incredibly knowledgeable, but I'm starting to realize that you might as well try and teach a monkey calculus than trying to get all this information into my head.

Maybe I'm not good at communicating, but you guys are waaaaaaaay above my head. I am a performer. I play and sing. I'm not a taper. Really, I have no functional way of evaluating mic position in a venue, and no desire or intention of even trying. I just want to put an ambient recorder in whatever position is most convenient and out of the way to get a decent (by my standards, obviously not all of yours) sounding recording.

I literally am only looking for something that will sound better than all my friends with their iPhones recording one another performing, and marginally better than my Q8.

I don't have the RAM for all of this information. I am not a sound man, professional taper, or even an amateur taper. I'm not even a recording hobbyist.

I think for now, I am just going to stick with the stock Q8, and on nights that I get really ambitious, I will also stick my $200.00 Panasonic camcorder next to it, so I can discard the ZOOM video, and just use the audio from the Q8. Which is pretty much what I have been doing for several years. It works for me. I just wanted something a little better. I don't think I need the H4N because my understanding is that the Q8 being newer tech has better audio. I can also use external mics on both units.


By the way, what the hell is with the verification in trying to post in this forum? Yet another indication that I am way out of my depth here! This is not hyperbole when I say that it takes me over 20 minutes to get past all the questions, not to mention I can almost never read the captcha, AND the the questions keep changing. This is why I don't respond to my own thread. This is insane! I have been using message forums for over 2 decades, and I have literally never seen anything like this. I am sure this post will piss a lot of you off, but this I am on 25 minutes trying to submit this post. I timed it! So, yeah, thanks for all the information, but I think I'm done here. I can't even edit my own posts without hitting a huge time wall. Over and over again, I keep getting sent back to either question(s) I answered wrong, or the Captcha I can't read.

[capnhook]

Good luck man, make great tapes 

[Gutbucket]

Let's make it simple.

Put the recorder you already have wherever it sounds best.  Make more effort to do that and you'll make better recordings.  If not willing to do that, upgrading the recording equipment won't help much.

You would not even try to make a video from a position from which you were unable to see the stage.  Similary, you will not be able to make a good sounding recording from a position that does not sound good.

You are a musician. Musicians are natural listeners.  Walk around the room while your band is playing or some other band is playing, listen and determine where it sounds best in the room. Figure out a way to put the recorder there if you can.  If there are only a few places you might reasonably put the recorder, go to each one and listen.  Close your eyes when you do this and rely only on what you are hearing, rather than what you see.  Setup the recorder in whatever place sounds best that is practical to do so.  While setting up, listen again with eyes closed to determine how to best orient the built-in mics of recorder or your microphone pair.  Point the machine or mics at the apparent acoustic center of the sound source, rather than at visually at the band.  Ignore what you see and rely on what you hear.  You may not end up pointing the recorder toward the center of the the band at all, you may end up pointing it at the closest PA speaker, or somewhere else.

If you do nothing more than what is described above rather than simply choosing whatever position is most convenient and out of the way, you will make recordings that sound better than your friends with iPhones.. unless they happen to be standing wherever it actually sounds best.

[ChiroVette]

Gutbucket, every single thing you said is fair. In fact, everything everyone has said so far is also perfectly reasonable.

I guess what that tells me is, since I have zero intention of trying to find an optimal listening spot, (and in fact, more often than not, I am unable to, since I am playing/singing most of my gigs from 1st song to last) that I should just save my money, and use what I have been using for over a decade, as I won't see any improvement with investing in gear. I assumed a new recorder and/or possibly better mics would help, but apparently, I don't need any of that.

(okay, I was able to make this post after only 1 attempt...so that's something, I suppose  )

[Gutbucket]

That conclusion is sound.

Except that finding a decent sounding spot isn't difficult.  You probably play the same places semi regularly.  Walk around and listen with this mindset while some other band is playing, and remember where the good spots are for next time. 

Simple, free, and the most effective thing you can do.

[nulldogmas]

One more question that I haven't seen answered yet: Where are you located? The simplest solution might be to see if someone here is local to you and would be willing to come to one of your shows and experiment with recording options, then share that knowledge with you.