Topic: Help needed in choosing best preamp or battery + mics for NJB3 ~$500

[Laymedown]

Hi everyone,

Newbie here, I've read and searched the forums for answers but haven't found exactly what I'm looking for and I felt that some of you may be able to suggest the best set up here.

I've recently dug up my Nomad Jukebox 3 and plan on recording some rock bands playing some arena shows. I haven't recorded before and I was just wondering what the best set up would be..I'm looking to spend around $300-$500 and would prefer to spend towards the lower end to middle of that but if there is a big difference in how my recording may come out by paying slightly more then I'd definitely be interested in some suggestions. Alot of places seem to be suggesting the soundprofessionals mics and battery box such as http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U and http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?item=SP-SPSB-1&source=&kw= but I'd love to know what the users here would recommend. The less work recording the better and the shows will be stealthed.
If you could provide any links to the items you suggest that would be brilliant and if you could point me in the direction of the cables I would need for your suggestion it would be helpful as the first time I plan to use them is in just over a week so would be upset if I forgot to get a certain cable.

Honestly, thankyou in advance to anyone who suggests anything and I will be posting the recordings online if everything is sorted in time. Great place you have here. 

[nameloc01]

You need to spend some time listening to shows and decide what mics sound good to you, and then compare them to the taping situations youll be in. Look for recordings that may use your same recorder to reference. Because what may work best for me wont for you.

[Laymedown]

Thanks for the reply. The set up I liked the sound of was:
DSM-6S > PA-6LC3 > M1 > 7pin>optical > NJB3

I couldn't fathom though exactly what an M1 and the 7pin>optical was though, but all that together may be out of the price range. An alternative would be to buy an edirol-r09 and use the inbuilt recorder but I'm assuming that would sound less good?

[professorhalfbaked]

I asked a similar question on this board recently, and one response stuck in my head:

I have considered DPA 406x, Sennheiser (MKE2, I think?), AT (853 or 943), and Church STC-11.  The DPA's are really tempting, but a bit pricey for me, especially for a first pair. I am also concerned about omni versus cardioid.  Seems like most of the people here use cardioids, but some of the mics (like DPA) seem to be available only in omni.

Are they the right price for a second pair?   Spend all you can on mics, and then a little more.  What can't be captured won't be recorded. 

I sort of lucked out (a friend lent me his Church Audio STC-11's for a while), so I have some time to think about it a bit and save up some cash, but this sounds pretty sage to me.  After all, if you upgrade a few months later your wallet takes two hits...

[nameloc01]

It is really debatable if the dpas really sound that much better than higher end a.t. mics...the real difference is the size (and the price). Basically you will probably end up looking at some a.t. Mics or something from chris church.  Any real serious upgrade would prob be to schoeps and then you are spending alot more money. But do realize..you are forgetting the most important 3 factors....location,location and most importantly ...location.

[Laymedown]

All the recordings would be Smashing Pumpkins in a large indoor arena in the middle of a crowd.

[nameloc01]

I was getting at.. where you are in the venue is even more important than what mics youre running. The best mics available wont make a great recording if youre up in the nosebleeds. But back to the mics...just listen around and see what you like.

[Laymedown]

Ah I see what you mean now.
I'm planning to be on the floor standing somewhere towards the middle of the venue so not front row and not up in the heavens

[nameloc01]

it seems like it usually works out where youre gonna spend just about 500.00 or well over a grand for mics. Theres not really a whole lot of good stealth mics in between. My u853s and ps2 with shipping was just under 500.00 now if i ever were to "upgrade", it would probably be to mk4s, which i believe are just under 2k. (give or take) and like i said the dpas performance really isnt worth the $ increase compared to what i have now..they are just easier to stealth. If i were you i'd focus on some a.t.s (stay away from the at 829s..)or maybe even something from chris church. Either way youll be under 500 and wont need to upgrade anytime soon, if at all.

[sunjan]

My u853s and ps2 with shipping was just under 500.00 now

Another vote for the AT853s. Great option with phantom (853RX). Can be run PS2>AD20 for stealth or UA5 if you ever go open taping...

/Jan

[nameloc01]

My u853s and ps2 with shipping was just under 500.00 now

Another vote for the AT853s. Great option with phantom (853RX). Can be run PS2>AD20 for stealth or UA5 if you ever go open taping...

/Jan

fuckin' eh right. i waiting for someone else to suggest them first.

[Laymedown]

Do people recommend then that I phantom power the mics? My first concert I want to record at is about 2 weeks away so I want to make sure that I have everything I need before then. The sound professionals mics seem to say that I have to select some sort of Ultra High SPL module or will the battery box cover this?

Sorry for asking what may appear to be simple questions, just want to make sure I get the purchases correct, if not it's an expensive waste of money.

[nameloc01]

Lol. Here we go again. The 853 were designed to use a 3 wire battery box..the a.t. power modules. Last time i checked each module was 200.00 x's 2 one for each mic.                 1. you can get a phantom power/3 wire setup to power  them..even though 48v directly would fry the mics the adaptors step it down to a usable voltage for the mics. And the results are great..this is what i use . Never had even close to clipping.                                2. You can haue someone build you a 3 wire bb or do it yourself.                 3. You can have the mics sensitiuity lowered with a 4.7 mod which will allows you to run them on a standard inexpensive b.b. However you could run into the situation where you need a preamp to boost the gain b/c the sensitivity has been lowered.                  so you need to decide exactly how you want to run them.

[Will_S]

Lol. Here we go again..... 3. You can have the mics sensitiuity lowered with a 4.7 mod which will allows you to run them on a standard inexpensive b.b. However you could run into the situation where you need a preamp to boost the gain b/c the sensitivity has been lowered.     

Here we go again indeed.  The 4.7K mod lowers the sensitivity RELATIVE TO TWO WIRE, which itself raises sensitivity relative to 3 wire or the adapters.  So needing a preamp for quiet material is no more relevant to this case than it is vs. the phantom adapters or 3 wire box.

Edit:  My suggestions...

The JB3 does not have a great preamp built in, or even a good one.  So if you will be taping softer music, a preamp is more or less a must.  Chruch Audio and Sound Professionals both offer models worth looking into.  If you are only taping highly amplified rock type music, then just a battery box should be fine.

As to phantom...if you run the AT853s, there is absolutely no performance advantage to running phantom adapters vs. a three wire battery box, as the mics see the same power regardless.  Few if any people would argue that 3 wire power sounds superior to the 4.7k mod either, but at least there is a difference in what the mics actually see.  You can get a 3 wire box much cheaper than the adapters, don't have to worry about the unswitchable bass rolloff found in some adapters, and a 3 wire batery box is much less bulky than phantom power unit + adapters.  But, if you want a recognizable brand name (other than Church Audio or Sound Professionals), you'd maybe want to go the adapter route.  And if you're ever going to record softer material, you'd definitely want a preamp so you might as well go with the 4.7k modded mics as they will work with a stock 1/8" input preamp, no separate battery box needed.

[nameloc01]

So...if you get the mod and run a 2wire bb..there will be no loss of gain? Or will there be? if youre using a 3wire theres really no reason for the mod..right? Like with the phantom/3wire setup? (my setup) as i undestood it the mod and 2wire was an alternatiue to a 3wire setup?