Topic: Multitrack from SBD?????

[Uncle Jimmy]

Kids,

  Got a huge opportunity to be a part of producing a DVD for a local band. I may have the camera, the crew and the access. What i am not sure about is how best to grab the audio. I know how to encode to DTS or AC3 (surround sound) but what i don't know is how to pull several different trax off of a soundboard (especially in synch) without having 6 different DATs or recorders orwhatever. Has anyone ever heard of doing this? I could get a laptop, i just don't know how to deal with the signal in.

OK,thanks,
UJ

[leegeddy]

Kids,

  Got a huge opportunity to be a part of producing a DVD for a local band. I may have the camera, the crew and the access. What i am not sure about is how best to grab the audio. I know how to encode to DTS or AC3 (surround sound) but what i don't know is how to pull several different trax off of a soundboard (especially in synch) without having 6 different DATs or recorders orwhatever. Has anyone ever heard of doing this? I could get a laptop, i just don't know how to deal with the signal in.

OK,thanks,
UJ

uj;

you're either going to need an A-DAT or use a multi-channel soundcard/capture device.  even if you had multiple DAT decks, you'll go crazy in postprod. with sync issues (unless you had a single word clock generator feeding all your DAT decks).

do they make multi-channel soundcards for lappys?

marc

[Scooter]

No dice on the multiple DATs as Leegeddy says, it'll drive you batty in post.  I'd add Tascam DA-38, 88, or 98, or one of the Roland VS series boxes to what has already been recomended on the stand alone hardware stuff.  There are many options for lappy; Digigram makes a four input PCMCIA (VX-440), Edirol FA-101 is Firewire(8track), M-Audio has Quattro, and Omni studio.  Those are just the reasonably priced ones.  Just pull signal from the direct outs, or the send/return patches on the SDB.  Just make sure you thoroughly test the lappy before tracking the band, they can be flaky sometimes if not set up right.

Scott

[nic]

whatever you do, make sure you have either:
1) a master clock generator feeding the video cameras and audio recording devices
2) a SMTPE generator feeding all of the above.

DV and other digital vid cameras suffer from word clock drift just like audio devices

[plucks]

if you want to sync up the video with the audio, you will definitely need a time-code generator.  If you have a V3, there is an output you can use.

For multitracking, you will need to have a way to split the snake from the main snake>monitors>board>you. Plus, you will need a mixer to hook your end of the mixer up to the snake.  From the mixer>your mulitrack recorder.  
You dont have to do a lot with the mixer since all the EQing and level adjustments will be finalized in post-recording production.  The Mixer is just so that all the levels from the snake are coming in properly.  
 
For recording the multitrack audio, use the tascam DA-38/88.  The great thing about multitracking is that once you set the levels to all be equal when you go back and master that tape, you can adjust the levels laters.  Multitrack recording is quite easy to do, its the mastering process that takes time to get it perfect.  
Even if you have a laptop, you will need to make sure it can handle multiple inputs.  You will need software and hardware to handle the load.

If you dont have access to all this, try to get in early, and see if you can use the AUX sends from the master board.  It will only be a stereo recording, but it should sound good.  Since you can adjust the levels of each channel without affecting the main mix it is similar to the post-production mixing of the multitrack tapes, only you have 1 shot to get it right

Good luck!    It's a lot of fun to setup a multitracking station and then once you have the levels set, there isnt too much else to worry about.

[Uncle Jimmy]

OK, sounds to me like the cameras need to be in close physical proximity to get it right with the external clock feed.

I don't have a V3 (yet). Is there a little black box that will do the trick?

[Tim]

For multitracking, you will need to have a way to split the snake from the main snake>monitors>board>you. Plus, you will need a mixer to hook your end of the mixer up to the snake.  From the mixer>your mulitrack recorder.  

not neccesarily...

what type of board are we dealing with? There are probably a few ways to get a multitrack feed without doing a split. Does the board have outputs on the channels? What about a matrix out?

[nic]

time code/SMTPE generators can get VERY expensive.
best option is to probably rent/borrow one.

an alternative to splitting the snake is to take direct outs from the FOH board...preferably pre-fader(this way, no matter what the foh engineer does, it does not affect what you are getting).

how many channels are you looking at recording?

[nic]

For multitracking, you will need to have a way to split the snake from the main snake>monitors>board>you. Plus, you will need a mixer to hook your end of the mixer up to the snake.  From the mixer>your mulitrack recorder.  

not neccesarily...

what type of board are we dealing with? There are probably a few ways to get a multitrack feed without doing a split. Does the board have outputs on the channels? What about a matrix out?

a matrix out is only going to be 2 channels, and everything has to be subgrouped to those outputs.

[Tim]

seems that I've run some Yamaha desks back in the day that had 8 channels of Matrix out.

maybe not though...

[Brian]

if the board has 1/4" outs for every channel you could take those into another mixer and mix the sound seperately in another room? mic splitter on stage might make this easier depending on where the room you would mix in is located in the venue. this way you could do your own mix of the show to 2 channel DAT.

Or......

do have access to rent gear? if you can try renting a Radar system.  very easy to use 24/192 24 channel multitrack recorder. you can mix everything down to Protools later if you have access to that as well. DA-88 is a nice suggestion but i think it only have 8 channels

hope you are able to work something out! +t

[nic]

RADARs are very nice!

we ran 1 for 2 nights last year, recording 22 channels at 24/96. sounds amazing!
kind of a pain to initially set up the first couple times you do it, but well worth it.

1/only drawback that I can think of(at least with the model we used) was that you have to set the levels at the mixing board, not on the RADAR.

also, the RADAR doesnt have word clock input or pass through...at least the what we used didnt have one. will make it a severe pain/almost impossible to synch with video

[Uncle Jimmy]

this way you could do your own mix of the show to 2 channel DAT.

Or......

do have access to rent gear? if you can try renting a Radar system.  very easy to use 24/192 24 channel multitrack recorder. you can mix everything down to Protools later if you have access to that as well. DA-88 is a nice suggestion but i think it only have 8 channels

hope you are able to work something out! +t

well, the original point was that i want seperate tracks to create surround sound, so mixing to 2 channel won't do it.  
i have bought some stuff from the professional division of ListenUp! and when i am in there, i see all kinds of stuff they rent. I can look into some things for sure.

As for the SBD that i am using, i don't know what the exact situation is. I certainly have to find out, though. The shows (2 nites) are at the end of July, so i have a little time to get this squared away. But not much.

thanks kids.


ps
by the way, this may sound silly, but i just popped up over the 50 post mark, and i see that i can grant tix. i just dont know what gdtstoo and ptbm mean. any help there? sorry about that one, but i searched and cant find it.

[nic]

surround sound...ouch!
those plugins can get mighty pricey.
what are you going to use for mixdown/mastering?

gdtstoo = good
ptbm = bad
why??? beats me, guess it was set up by dead fans
I've always been granted whatever tix I ordered through ptbm, but always rejected by gdts/gdtstoo...go figure

[Uncle Jimmy]

well, depending on what the sources are like, i will be mixing each track independently (or maybe use the same template with some minor tweaks on L/R of front and rear and an independent center) with audacity.

Then, i have an encoder that supposedly will take independent sources and mux them into an AC3 file. I would probably like to use DTS if i could, but that is pricy, for sure.

Of course, i will run all of this first to test.

UJ

[leegeddy]

I would probably like to use DTS if i could, but that is pricy, for sure.

wanna tryout SurCode for DTS?

marc

[Uncle Jimmy]

man, i would love that. i'm not doing the show until July 31-aug1, so that would give me some time to experiment.

shoot me an email at shnspreadguy@yahoo.com

J----

+t for you.