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Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Topic started by: weroflu on January 21, 2011, 03:07:06 AM
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I have a pair of beyer dt990's that always sounded very good to me, but they need new pads and it is uncomfortable to wear them.
how would a mid level pair of IEM compare in sound to the beyers. same league?
stupid question, but do the IEM go in about as far as your can put your finger in your ear?
or should i just repad the beyers?
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I can't compare anything to your current headphones, but if you go the IEM route definitely get custom molded tips. Costs about $100 but worth it IMO.
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For me, they go in deeper than my finger...but I have odd ears with especially narrow ear canals.
Looks like the DT990s are open-earcup, which generally sound better to me than closed-earcup and in-ear 'phones. Though for most of my listening, I really appreciate the external noise attenuation provided by my in-ear 'phones.
What type of usage do you intend? Home listening in a controlled environment? On-the-go listening? Monitoring mixes while recording? For me, IEMs excel when one wants to attenuate external noise. Otherwise, I opt for an open-earcup, circum-aural headphone every time for comfort and sound quality.
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i guess the IEM would be for all sorts of uses... home, on the go, and i had not even thought about using them for recording but that's a good idea.
usually when recording i do solo or small groups and never wear cans.
i just wanted to try to miniaturize my whole setup so if they sound as good as the beyers i can have something small but just as good.
also could be good to block out my gf's incessant prattling on her cellphone (just kidding???)
where is a good place to get replacement pads for the beyers in europe?
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The most realistic soundstage recreation I've ever heard from one of my audience tapes was achieved while listening via my IEMs. That said, I had a generic pair of etymotics and a custom set of westones and I've since let go of both. While they were great and I do miss them time to time, IEMs work best when you are listening outside of your primary environment (e.g. home in a quiet room) and I wasn't doing that anymore. One word of caution, the sensitivity of your headphones is much less (takes more volume) than any IEM I've ever heard, so you may notice noise that you previously didn't, and you may have trouble getting the volume quiet enough to listen to for long periods of time without having a channel imballance. I solved the later by using the digital attenuation function on my mac, but when I was listening on the go, it was much more difficult.
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thanks for all of the info. it sounds like i will most likely pick up a pair of iem's in the not too distant future.
extra noise???
bring it on.
i hate all these sterile noiseless recordings made nowadays.
next purchase after the iem's will be a nagra IV.
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thanks for all of the info. it sounds like i will most likely pick up a pair of iem's in the not too distant future.
extra noise???
bring it on.
i hate all these sterile noiseless recordings made nowadays.
next purchase after the iem's will be a nagra IV.
well, it wasn't the recording so much as playback gear. I could hear noise off of my headphone jack on my laptop with any headphones or IEMs, but I could hear the noise off of my DAC/headamp with the IEMs were I couldn't with some of the headphones I had at the time. It wasn't until I dropped lots of coin on headphones could I match that noise detail.
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I can't compare anything to your current headphones, but if you go the IEM route definitely get custom molded tips. Costs about $100 but worth it IMO.
where/what brand has custom tips these days for reasonable??
when i was looking into custom molds they had discontinued all the ones that worked with cheaper phones/monitors and the only ones i could find where like 700+
i got some shure lc3e (or something like that) and like them a lot
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thanks for all of the info. it sounds like i will most likely pick up a pair of iem's in the not too distant future.
extra noise???
bring it on.
i hate all these sterile noiseless recordings made nowadays.
next purchase after the iem's will be a nagra IV.
well, it wasn't the recording so much as playback gear. I could hear noise off of my headphone jack on my laptop with any headphones or IEMs, but I could hear the noise off of my DAC/headamp with the IEMs were I couldn't with some of the headphones I had at the time. It wasn't until I dropped lots of coin on headphones could I match that noise detail.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what your saying. Are you saying you could hear noise, like the headphone out on your laptop and some of your gear had scratchy feedback? That's typically not a good thing...
I can hear the whine of the HDD in my Rio Karma and some fuzziness out of the headphone jack of my H180. Definitely not things I want to hear.
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thanks for all of the info. it sounds like i will most likely pick up a pair of iem's in the not too distant future.
extra noise???
bring it on.
i hate all these sterile noiseless recordings made nowadays.
next purchase after the iem's will be a nagra IV.
well, it wasn't the recording so much as playback gear. I could hear noise off of my headphone jack on my laptop with any headphones or IEMs, but I could hear the noise off of my DAC/headamp with the IEMs were I couldn't with some of the headphones I had at the time. It wasn't until I dropped lots of coin on headphones could I match that noise detail.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what your saying. Are you saying you could hear noise, like the headphone out on your laptop and some of your gear had scratchy feedback? That's typically not a good thing...
I can hear the whine of the HDD in my Rio Karma and some fuzziness out of the headphone jack of my H180. Definitely not things I want to hear.
Bingo, it's like a hiss when it's just faint. With mid-fi headphones I didn't hear it, but with my IEMs I could pin point it. It was DAC/amp dependant as well, some performed much better than others, and with the IEMs I was able to figure out what of my gear paired well and had a very "black" background.
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thanks for all of the info. it sounds like i will most likely pick up a pair of iem's in the not too distant future.
extra noise???
bring it on.
i hate all these sterile noiseless recordings made nowadays.
next purchase after the iem's will be a nagra IV.
well, it wasn't the recording so much as playback gear. I could hear noise off of my headphone jack on my laptop with any headphones or IEMs, but I could hear the noise off of my DAC/headamp with the IEMs were I couldn't with some of the headphones I had at the time. It wasn't until I dropped lots of coin on headphones could I match that noise detail.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what your saying. Are you saying you could hear noise, like the headphone out on your laptop and some of your gear had scratchy feedback? That's typically not a good thing...
I can hear the whine of the HDD in my Rio Karma and some fuzziness out of the headphone jack of my H180. Definitely not things I want to hear.
Bingo, it's like a hiss when it's just faint. With mid-fi headphones I didn't hear it, but with my IEMs I could pin point it. It was DAC/amp dependant as well, some performed much better than others, and with the IEMs I was able to figure out what of my gear paired well and had a very "black" background.
Ah okay. Yeah, unfortunately, most of the gear we use does have shitty headphone outputs. The iriver is pretty decent, the karma beats it hands down (I've yet to hear a mp3 player that drives my shures better than the Karma). Surprisingly, the NJB3 has a kick ass headphone out, especially with my Sony 7506's. It just made them sing like no other mp3 player.
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I can't compare anything to your current headphones, but if you go the IEM route definitely get custom molded tips. Costs about $100 but worth it IMO.
where/what brand has custom tips these days for reasonable??
when i was looking into custom molds they had discontinued all the ones that worked with cheaper phones/monitors and the only ones i could find where like 700+
i got some shure lc3e (or something like that) and like them a lot
I have Etymotic ER6s with custom molds. The molds are also used as earplugs at shows (just remove the headphones and insert the filter). They were reasonable, though I get audiologist work done at cost (from family member).
http://www.etymotic.com/customfit/faq.html
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I can't compare anything to your current headphones, but if you go the IEM route definitely get custom molded tips. Costs about $100 but worth it IMO.
where/what brand has custom tips these days for reasonable??
when i was looking into custom molds they had discontinued all the ones that worked with cheaper phones/monitors and the only ones i could find where like 700+
i got some shure lc3e (or something like that) and like them a lot
I had mine through Westone, (generic drivers, custom adaptors). I think ultimate ears will do a set of generic drives and custom tips as well. JHenry only does the all in one if I remember correctly (so there is zero resale value...), might want to check.
thanks for all of the info. it sounds like i will most likely pick up a pair of iem's in the not too distant future.
extra noise???
bring it on.
i hate all these sterile noiseless recordings made nowadays.
next purchase after the iem's will be a nagra IV.
well, it wasn't the recording so much as playback gear. I could hear noise off of my headphone jack on my laptop with any headphones or IEMs, but I could hear the noise off of my DAC/headamp with the IEMs were I couldn't with some of the headphones I had at the time. It wasn't until I dropped lots of coin on headphones could I match that noise detail.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what your saying. Are you saying you could hear noise, like the headphone out on your laptop and some of your gear had scratchy feedback? That's typically not a good thing...
I can hear the whine of the HDD in my Rio Karma and some fuzziness out of the headphone jack of my H180. Definitely not things I want to hear.
Bingo, it's like a hiss when it's just faint. With mid-fi headphones I didn't hear it, but with my IEMs I could pin point it. It was DAC/amp dependant as well, some performed much better than others, and with the IEMs I was able to figure out what of my gear paired well and had a very "black" background.
Ah okay. Yeah, unfortunately, most of the gear we use does have shitty headphone outputs. The iriver is pretty decent, the karma beats it hands down (I've yet to hear a mp3 player that drives my shures better than the Karma). Surprisingly, the NJB3 has a kick ass headphone out, especially with my Sony 7506's. It just made them sing like no other mp3 player.
yeah, best I ever heard with my westones was my ibasso D10 portable dac/amp. It was black as night with the UM3x IEMs. I had a littledot amp that was pretty good but I could hear the tubes ping (faintly) occasionally.
I can't compare anything to your current headphones, but if you go the IEM route definitely get custom molded tips. Costs about $100 but worth it IMO.
where/what brand has custom tips these days for reasonable??
when i was looking into custom molds they had discontinued all the ones that worked with cheaper phones/monitors and the only ones i could find where like 700+
i got some shure lc3e (or something like that) and like them a lot
I have Etymotic ER6s with custom molds. The molds are also used as earplugs at shows (just remove the headphones and insert the filter). They were reasonable, though I get audiologist work done at cost (from family member).
http://www.etymotic.com/customfit/faq.html
I have the same set, but I only use them with filters now (I had the ER6s, I think they pair great with a dark amp to warm up the bottom end). The shells cost around around $150 (filters are $40 a set I think) if you pay out of pocket. Check your insurance, mine covered them as "hearing supplies" or something along those lines.
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I think the Zune Premium earphones are some of the best for that pricepoint, at least IMO. I have Sennheiser HD280 Pro cvans for my monitoring setup. The 722 has AMAZING headphone amps, at least IMO, and I can monitor very realistically w/ the Senn HD280's plugged into my 722. I have been wantting a decent and SMALL headphone amp/DAC but just dont have the $$ yet.........
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I can't compare anything to your current headphones, but if you go the IEM route definitely get custom molded tips. Costs about $100 but worth it IMO.
where/what brand has custom tips these days for reasonable??
when i was looking into custom molds they had discontinued all the ones that worked with cheaper phones/monitors and the only ones i could find where like 700+
i got some shure lc3e (or something like that) and like them a lot
I have Etymotic ER6s with custom molds. The molds are also used as earplugs at shows (just remove the headphones and insert the filter). They were reasonable, though I get audiologist work done at cost (from family member).
http://www.etymotic.com/customfit/faq.html
nice
they must be new because when i was looking they only had one model that worked and had discontinued them because of an issue with the molds not working correctly after a short period of time
looks like they are completely reworked though from the info
i might have to check these out closer now
thanks
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I (unfortunately) need three sets of headphones.
1. AKG k701 (MuFi x24k> Mufi x-can) as part of my main home rig. This is what i use for late night listening & tuning out the wife & kids. They are large open backed headphones which sound (to my ears) as good as any transducer I've ever heard.
2. Westone Um-1 IEMs (I once had a pair of etys with the custom molds which I didn't like- gave me less noise separation than the foamies they came with. Bad mold?). I use this out of my iphone for listening on the subway, on airplanes, etc.
3. Beyer dt770 pro 250 ohm (creek obh-11) these sit at my desk in the library. Good sound, great bass and sealed cups so I don't bother anyone else.
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Bingo, it's like a hiss when it's just faint. With mid-fi headphones I didn't hear it, but with my IEMs I could pin point it. It was DAC/amp dependant as well, some performed much better than others, and with the IEMs I was able to figure out what of my gear paired well and had a very "black" background.
impedance mismatch.... many IEM's are very low impedance 5-20 ohm, and very sensitive so high gain amps cause hissing.... some amps are worse about hissing with very low ohm sources than others.... so behaviour as you describe results.
http://jaben.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=a9162e6a9b3c02476c6b7043a5b30bf4&topic=5375.msg85881#msg85881
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/531086/ie7-and-general-iem-hiss
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/392233/iem-hiss-in-ppa2
search for info on a impedance adapter, basically adding resistance to the cable to raise the ohm level of the IEM's to around a target of 75 or so...
http://headphonehaven.com/topic/392345/1/
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can someone recommend a first pair of IEM's. I like a balanced/neutral sound.
triplefi seems like a good price on the used market but maybe not so neutral? the um3x seems like what i want but costs more.
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Bingo, it's like a hiss when it's just faint. With mid-fi headphones I didn't hear it, but with my IEMs I could pin point it. It was DAC/amp dependant as well, some performed much better than others, and with the IEMs I was able to figure out what of my gear paired well and had a very "black" background.
impedance mismatch.... many IEM's are very low impedance 5-20 ohm, and very sensitive so high gain amps cause hissing.... some amps are worse about hissing with very low ohm sources than others.... so behaviour as you describe results.
Yeah, valid points and what I thought it was at first as well, the but westones have an impedance in the upper 50s low 60s, actually higher than my current Denon full sized headphones. What I found to be the culprit in my case was shitty components used in the Dac/Amp. I had a choice of either upgrading the dac chip and signal path (which was known to be bad) up to the headphone amp section or junking it and starting anew.
There are a bunch of things that can go wrong. :-\
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I have been looking to get a pair of IEM's for awhile now. I have been looking at these:
http://ultimateears.com/en-us/products/4-pro#description
Would these be something that you would want to get? and could I listen to my tape as its being recorded to check everything sounds good?
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I have been looking to get a pair of IEM's for awhile now. I have been looking at these:
http://ultimateears.com/en-us/products/4-pro#description
Would these be something that you would want to get? and could I listen to my tape as its being recorded to check everything sounds good?
That's basically what I had when I had my Westone set (comparable price even). A tip from my experience; since you will need molds done (based on the picture), consider getting 2 done and get a set of ear plugs as well so you only have to do one visit. I did my plugs first and did the IEMs later and while the charge wasn't bad, I wished I'd done it on the same day. While Westone would do both IEMs and ear plugs off of a single mold set, I think you'd have to send the molds to different places with UE, hence requiring 2 sets.
edit: and yes, you could use them to monitor your recording thanks to the isolation.
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it's a different sound between open around ear headphones and closed sealed IEMs. You don't "feel" the bass as much in IEMs, but the good ones still give a nice sense of direction. I could never wear my Senn's on the train, so that's a big difference. If all is equal I would probably choose my 650s, but since I usually listen on the go, my Shure 535's are what I usually listen to.
I also listen to them to monitor shows (sometimes have them in the whole show) because of the "plug" effect.
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Since we're already talking IEMs, I thought I'd toss this out there. I got a set of Ultimate Ears SuperFi 3s about 4 years ago, and they're now in need of replacement. They have removable cords, and the cord is pretty loose in the left earphone. Not good. I called up Logitech (who now owns UE), and because I'm out of warranty, they offered me a 50% off coupon on a new set. I'm primarily looking at either the SuperFi 5 (http://www.logitech.com/en-us/speakers-audio/earphones/devices/5655) or the Ultimate Ears 700 (http://www.logitech.com/en-us/speakers-audio/earphones/devices/7325). Any thoughts? I've been happy with my UEs, and I was considering Etys, but with the 50% off coupon, UE/Logitech is offering a pretty good deal...
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Good earphones can have excellent sound quality. I love my Shure SCL4's (formerly E4c's - have owned both) and the UE triple-fi's are probably even better. A must have, especially for monitoring at gigs; much better, imo, than any pair of standard headphones.
However, earphones always seem to wear out and can be fragile. I've now had 3 pairs of Shures die on me, but if under warranty they'll send you a brand new pair without question. I'm willing to deal with this because of how good they sound.
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i've been using some very cheap (but comfortable) Sony earbuds for several years with my iPod/iPhone. the sound of the Sony's is pretty much horrible, but i've been hesitant to spend too much money on portable headphones. i've finally grown tired of the Sony's and just can't stand to listen to them anymore.
i couldn't bring myself to spend a lot of coin on IEM's, but i settled on a pair of Woodees iESW100L 24K Blues (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/woodees-iesw100l-24k-blues.php) based on the reviews. they were $43 and change through Amazon. anyone have any experience with Woodees?
the other IEMs that caught my eye were:
- Klipsch Image Reference S4i (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/klipsch-image-reference-s4i.php) $99.99
- Ultimate Ears UE700 (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/ultimate-ears-ue700.php) $149.99
- Sennheiser IE 60 (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/sennheiser-ie-60.php) $249.95
- Etymotic ER-4PT (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/etymotic-er-4pt.php) $299.99
- Shure SE425 (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/shure-se425.php) $299.99
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i've been using some very cheap (but comfortable) Sony earbuds for several years with my iPod/iPhone. the sound of the Sony's is pretty much horrible, but i've been hesitant to spend too much money on portable headphones. i've finally grown tired of the Sony's and just can't stand to listen to them anymore.
i couldn't bring myself to spend a lot of coin on IEM's, but i settled on a pair of Woodees iESW100L 24K Blues (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/woodees-iesw100l-24k-blues.php) based on the reviews. they were $43 and change through Amazon. anyone have any experience with Woodees?
the other IEMs that caught my eye were:
- Klipsch Image Reference S4i (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/klipsch-image-reference-s4i.php) $99.99
- Ultimate Ears UE700 (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/ultimate-ears-ue700.php) $149.99
- Sennheiser IE 60 (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/sennheiser-ie-60.php) $249.95
- Etymotic ER-4PT (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/etymotic-er-4pt.php) $299.99
- Shure SE425 (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/shure-se425.php) $299.99
I am not familiar with any of those IEMs, but look at the Westone UM2 in that price range. I am a huge fan of Westone earphones in general. Very accurate and comfortable.
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Caveat: My hearing is no longer what it used to be (lower sensitivity and losses in frequencies…). But strangely I happen to hear when something’s sounding bad… to my ears! So don’t ask me too much!
I was in search of cheap IEM to replace “what came with my Sansa Clip” (which his perfect for me, the Sansa Clip I mean, not the "thing") and I started with Thomann’s online shop, looking for Superlux. I found this, very reasonably priced but without details as usual with Thomann:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/superlux_hd_381.htm
So I checked the Superlux site and discovered that there was three different models offering “3 distinctive sound profiles”:
http://www.superlux.com.tw/index.do (enter HD381 in the search box)
(if it comes in Chinese, there is a pop down menu in the upper right corner of the page where you can choose English). I don’t give the full direct link because it seems that my whole life is described in it!
I found this review :
http://www.head-fi.org/t/493052/superlux-hd381-series-mini-review-comparisons
And I wanted to try the HD381F (the “flat” one) and I looked for a source. Eventually I came to a Chinese search engine in English (http://www.englishtaobao.com) and I picked three from this shop (plenty of others…):
http://www.englishtaobao.com/product/9467600827/Jumper+loss+Shu+Bole+%3Cspan+class%3DH%3Esuperlux+%3C+span%3E+HD+381f+hd381f+ear+plugs+ear+headphones+such+as+refunding
I got them in a decent delay (within two weeks I guess), well packed. I kept two for me and offered the third one.
And I’m happy with them… But I am in no way an expert!
It is my first experience with IEM and I am very surprised by the quality of the HD381: I appreciate not to have to press them into my head like I had to with standard earphones to hear some basses. They fit perfectly and they sound good to me: I happened to look around for my phone hearing a phone ring in a movie…
I read somewhere they look very similar to some Sony’s: some Duckduckgoing later, it could be : Sony MDR EX 85XL, Sony-MDR-EX90SL but also Brainwavz Beta:
http://www.amazon.com/Brainwavz-Beta-Noise-Isolating-Headphones/dp/B005IF3CE8/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1347662700&sr=1-2&keywords=Brainwavz
Superlux has two reputations: to be a copier (see the debates about the S502 or some field mixers) or to be an OEM (what they say in their home page): I won’t discuss it.
There is another surprise from Superlux:
http://www.headfonia.com/superlux-hd668b/
I had a pianist friend buy it and she seems to recognize her piano… so it is not so bad for the price:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/superlux_hd668_b.htm
I agree with her and I may buy one for me for home listening as my HD25 is uncomfortable on a long period (except when I use it when recording on location, which is what it was made for).
FWIW…
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i've been using some very cheap (but comfortable) Sony earbuds for several years with my iPod/iPhone. the sound of the Sony's is pretty much horrible, but i've been hesitant to spend too much money on portable headphones. i've finally grown tired of the Sony's and just can't stand to listen to them anymore.
i couldn't bring myself to spend a lot of coin on IEM's, but i settled on a pair of Woodees iESW100L 24K Blues (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/woodees-iesw100l-24k-blues.php) based on the reviews. they were $43 and change through Amazon. anyone have any experience with Woodees?
the other IEMs that caught my eye were:
- Klipsch Image Reference S4i (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/klipsch-image-reference-s4i.php) $99.99
- Ultimate Ears UE700 (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/ultimate-ears-ue700.php) $149.99
- Sennheiser IE 60 (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/sennheiser-ie-60.php) $249.95
- Etymotic ER-4PT (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/etymotic-er-4pt.php) $299.99
- Shure SE425 (http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/shure-se425.php) $299.99
the Woodees arrived yesterday. my first reaction was absolute horror :'( these things sound terrible. harsh brittle highs and no bass. i've been running pink noise through the headphones all day to see if they improve at all. this purchase may have been a waste of $43, but i'm keeping an open mind and remaining optimistic that they just need some break-in time. we'll see.
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Generally, you will know if you like the sound of a newly acquired pair of cans or iems right off the bat. I'm not familiar with the woodees, but I would recommend the soniq se500's. I picked up a pair for $50 and think they sound great. And this is coming from someone who has owned the shure se530's and se535's.
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+1 for westone. The comply tips fit well and isolate as well. I use the um 2 and have a pair um 1 for doing the dirty work, must be around 4 years daily service, still holding up well. I have senn hd600 and beyer 770 and sometimes like to use them. They all sound better at different times when getting signal from ray samuels hd amp.
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They've already been mentioned, but let me put in another good word for Shure IEMs. A rich sound, not bass crazy but not thin-bottomed like the Etymotic ("analytical" they say--no, weak bass). And while the soundstage is smaller than my over-the-ear phones, it's pretty spacious anyway.
I was very happy with Shure E3 (now SE215) until I tried the E4 (different color E4c), which are a serious leap upward in quality, and its successor, SE 315. But the E4 cords eventually (after years) get stiff and fall apart, and the phones are hard-wired to those cords. So do not, repeat do not, buy an old used pair no matter how good an Ebay listing looks. Even if they've been well preserved they are not going to last long, because they've already been aging for years.
The equivalent IEM is now the SE 315, and definitely worth the $30-50 additional cost over the SE 215. Even better, Shure has now changed the design so the drivers snap onto the end of the cord. If there's eventually a problem with the cord, you can just replace it, and you still have the drivers.
Recently, I did a warranty deal on the SE535--half price--and they are just plain heavenly, another quantum improvement, though I would have hesitated to plunk down $400.
Meanwhile, about those UE Pro-4's, you would need to be careful how you get them customized. They're being sold primarily as in-ear monitors for musicians on stage, and with those you don't necessarily want the flat response of hi-fi music playback--you want to hear your voice or your guitar right up front. If you go that route, make sure everyone is aware you are using them with a music player.
NOTE: If you are new to IEMs: You have to try out every earplug in the package. Most of them will sound bad, really bad, and you will wonder what the hell everyone was so excited about. But the one that fits your ear will be amazing. With my older Shures, the only ones that sounded any good for me were the big gray rubbery ones--until the 535, when the big grays also sounded bad but black foam "olives" did the trick. I was deeply unimpressed with Comply, by the way. Your ears are very likely to be different.
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I like the westones with comply tips. Comply has a new tip that is slim and longer. They sound great.