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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: phishy12 on October 21, 2005, 05:53:36 PM
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does anybody know how you can tell just by looking, the difference in a 4060 vs a 4061?? i have bought 2 off of ebay, both claiming to be 4061's, but the mic ends look different.
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I don't know about by just looking, but try hooking them up. The 4060 is more sensitive than the 4061.
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enough so, that it would be a noticable difference??
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+7dbs, I believe.
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if the ends haven't been cut off too extremely for whatever ends are on them now...
white tape serial - 4060
red tape serial - 4061
and congrats on your CMC65 stereo pair....I wished I'd seen them first!
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well that answers it then, because they both have red tape. it's just on one of them the mesh material that covers the mic element is larger than the other one??
thanks shaggy!!
i thought i got a great deal on the cmc65 set
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well that answers it then, because they both have red tape. it's just on one of them the mesh material that covers the mic element is larger than the other one??
thanks shaggy!!
i thought i got a great deal on the cmc65 set
They just have different boost grids on them then. The bigger one is the soft boost, the smaller one is the high boost grid. Pretty sure you'd want soft boost grids on both for our purposes.
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So, the 4061's would be better for louder situations? Is that what is meant by "less sensitive"?
I hoping on picking up a pair of these and a MMA6000 to go with my MT as a stealth rig.
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does anybody know how you can tell just by looking, the difference in a 4060 vs a 4061?? i have bought 2 off of ebay, both claiming to be 4061's, but the mic ends look different.
I have to ask - how many mics do you own? I've never seen you sell anything, but you always win auctions on high end mics. What do you do with them all? I'd love to see pictures of your collection - mic porn >:D
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So, the 4061's would be better for louder situations? Is that what is meant by "less sensitive"?
I hoping on picking up a pair of these and a MMA6000 to go with my MT as a stealth rig.
4060's handle 134 dB SPL, I don't think you will ever see anything this loud at a concert. I would personally go with these over the 4061's due to their higher sensitivity.
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No matter what mics you choose you're still going to have to get your levels set properly to get max resolution. Is there an audible difference in initial mic volume vs gain volume on a recorder? I brickwalled my 4061>batt box>R1 rig even....so careful.
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4060's handle 134 dB SPL, I don't think you will ever see anything this loud at a concert. I would personally go with these over the 4061's due to their higher sensitivity.
Yes, you can see SPLs this loud. I've had it happen a couple times. It was, of course, the bass that killed the recordings... even wearing earplugs it was physically uncomfortable. In all cases I was either FOH or stack taping, I would probably have had better results had I chosen / been able to tape from FOB. But yeah, you can see SPLs this loud...
Edit to add: I run 4060s. When I bought them I was unsure whether to go 4060 or 4061. Now that I've played with them for quite some time, now that I have a feel for what the mics are capable of... if I had to choose again I would take the 4060s.
best regards,
stephen
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Another perspective.. For a noisy pre like the microtrack, the 4060 would be a better choice for many folks.
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I just got a pair with the larger screen on one. is having a soft boost and a high boost good when I plan on taping rock and metal shows? not like death metal, but heavy music. I would really like to tape tool.
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i run the 4060s, and have for quite some time. the more sensitive mics are the batter call, imo. i would do it again if i needed to...
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+7dbs, I believe.
I think the difference might be even higher, more than 10dbs. Of course, this is only based on published DPA specs and this equation, [dB_difference=20*log(A/B)], not actual testing on my part.
For the 4061 vs 4060, the equation works out to be:
20*log(.006/.02);
20*log(.3);
20*-0.5228=-10.456
The 4061 would need 10.456 dbs of additional gain to match the output of the 4060.
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I'm going to get a set of mics this week (I think) and it's going to be either 4060 or 4061. I'm not %100 sure that I'm understanding everything, so I'd like to get some clarification if possible.
The 4060's will "start" at a higher volume than the 4061's, and will need less amplification to produce the same results.
Does this also mean that they'll be less able to tolerate louder sounds?
Primarily they're going to be used to stealth indoor rock shows in small-ish venues. (I'd guesstimate %70 of the time I'm gonna be somewhere indoors at a small venue). If I'm going to be getting an MMA6000 to power the mics, with the gain it can apply to the 4061's, will it make the difference in sensitivity a non-issue? Would I typically want the mics to start louder if I tape loud things already? I can count the number of non-rock/loud shows I've seen this year on one hand, and the number of overly loud shows that I've had a crapass recording from using lesser quality mics... well I've got a large stack of DAT's to be recycled at some point to show for my efforts. So I want to correct all that, but I do want to make sure I don't blow a large chunk of cash on the wrong pair of mics. Any help? (anyone got any sound comparisons from loud rock shows also?)
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4060 : more sensitive, meaning they 'start out louder', need less pre amplification and have less self noise. They can handle a max 134dB SPL before serious distortion occurs
4061: less sensitive, meaning they 'start out quieter', nedd more pre amplification or gain and have more self noise. They can handle a max 144dB SPL.
Next to a stack, it is quite possible to get a peak over 134dB. So it is a trade off, if you get the 4060s you may never need mic-preamplification (meaning you can go line in) which is nice if you decide to go the newest and hottest thing that everyone is crazy about, the MicroTrack 2496....it has a noisy mic pre. Avoid any additional gain stage is a plus when running these hot mics (4060s). If you do alot of stack taping or seriously upfront taping at loud shows, then get the 4061s.
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If you are going with an MMA6000, the point is pretty much moot aside from the self noise which probably won't even be noticeable when taping such loud shows. I tape only loud shows in small venues (maybe 1200 people at the largest) and have been able to go line-in at some shows even with the 4061s. Recently picked up an MMA6000 but haven't tested it out yet. Main reason for the purchase was to match levels on the 4061s (one was about 2.5-3dB off) and also be able to tape quieter shows via line-in.
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If you are going with an MMA6000, the point is pretty much moot aside from the self noise which probably won't even be noticeable when taping such loud shows. I tape only loud shows in small venues (maybe 1200 people at the largest) and have been able to go line-in at some shows even with the 4061s. Recently picked up an MMA6000 but haven't tested it out yet. Main reason for the purchase was to match levels on the 4061s (one was about 2.5-3dB off) and also be able to tape quieter shows via line-in.
My 4060's suffer the same offset. One is about 3dBl lower than the other. Very maddening.... So much for "matched" I guess. :P
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TenoRichards and madman, in regards to your unmatched minatures, did you purchase your 406Xs new or used?
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According to the several retailers I've asked, DPA doesn't sell matched pairs.
Anybody know of a retailer who does?
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If you want matched pairs, you have to go thru Bruce Meyers at DPA in CO. Bruce can get DPA to match them for you in Allerod, Denmark....but it is special order and costs extra, I believe. The other option is Len at Core Sound, he claims to match them within 1dB for his HEB sets (since he buys them in bulk).
According to Bruce, they are within a tolerance of 2dB when they leave the factory. If you buy them on ebay as I have in the past...I have seen them off as much as 6-8dB. I warn as many people as I can about this, that it is truly buyer beware on ebay regarding those things. I had a bought four over a period of a few months back in 2002 thru a guy selling alot of them on ebay (this is before the big rush for those things....got them for $90-120/piece). They came from theater productions and had been worn many times. Some of the screens were caked with makeup. None were 'matched'. One didn't even work (the guy did send another one in it's place). When the DPA service center moved from Kitchener, ONT to CO....I took advantage of the situation by calling them up on the first day they were in business. I got them to take two of the best that I had to exchange them for DPA factory matched new ones, the whole process took about three weeks. It also cost me $400. I have a document from DPA claiming they are matched, frequency plots and sensitivity and noise measurments. The 4061's serial numbers are not consequtive, but they are within 300 units from each other, the output is identical at 6mV/Pa and the noise identical at 24dB, the plots are near perfect with respect to each other (off no more than 2dB anywhere on the curve). I will take a photo and post them on here later on today. I was in fact, screwing around with them this morning trying to get everthing in order for my outing to see Niyaz in Azabu Juban tonite. I never have to do any adjustments on the SBM to get them to match. Sonically they are spot on. Anyone who has taken the time to DL anyone of my 4061 sourced torrents will tell you this.
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len @ core-sound will sell them to you matched...
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Thanks for the info. Might be worth the extra $ to buy new from DPA, tho the eBay ones are such a great deal.
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Thanks for the info. Might be worth the extra $ to buy new from DPA, tho the eBay ones are such a great deal.
You really can't do much wrong by getting a pair from v0731 on ebay. I got a pair from her and they are AWESOME. Mine seems to be matched pretty damn well as far as I can see. For $400 it really is worth it for how much you save. You can use the money you save to get other goodies to go with them :)
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I've actually been considering going that route, as I want them for stealth, & I like the 1/8" termination for the cables. Save a lot of $ for the mics, AND not have to pay to change the cable ends.
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I DID buy mine from Len. I have always thought it was the mic2496 that didn't plot the output at the same level, but upon reading about the 4060's unmatched characteristics, I have now been assuming it's the mics not the preamp. The knobs on the mic2496 COULD still be the culprit. Also, I'm getting good at guessing where 3-4dBl difference looks like on the level knobs. I never get to do sound checks anyway, so levels are ALWAYS guess work for moi.
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if you bought them from len, shoot him an email, or better yet, call him (ther is an 800 # on the site) and he should be able to straighten you out, esp if you are going heb > mic2496. in that case you are using all of his gear, and i am pretty sure it can be dialed in closer than you are stating...
keep us up to date.