Topic: 4060s - how much is too much

[jpschust]

ok, macdaddy, no way no how you are over 130dB, I don't care what the show is.  You would be doing some serious hearing damage at that level.  You arent going to over gain the mics, its gonna be a pre that is gonna go before that.

[macdaddy]

jp - I agree with ya.  I wasnt saying that those shoes were at 130db or above, I just said those shows were super loud, and that they were painful...

i dont think any shows approach 134 or above, but that doesnt mean there arent some loud ones...

I dont know where the clipping comes from, i think it is a sony deal. if the knobs are below 3 (which going mic in at primus w/o an att cable dictated to keep the levels below 0) there is massive clipping. If you go above 4, even if the over lights are lighting up like firecrackers, the sound is better, and there is less clipping than there was when I kept the levels down...

going line in solves that problem, and I am able to hover between 4 and 8 on the level knob depending on the volume of the show...

sorry if I wasnt clear...

[zhianosatch]

you should never run "mic in" with sony portable gear at a concert. ever.

[Sean Gallemore]

any consumer gear for that matter, and even the m1

[macdaddy]

I don't but what's the rationale..?

thanks.

[Sean Gallemore]

it's a really cheap preamp, most likely prone to distortion

[Arglebargle]

I've run into problems with these mics taping too close to the monitors on stage and the WAV form gets clipped.

[Sean Gallemore]

and you've determined it's an SPL issue?

[zhianosatch]

Dubious.

[jpschust]

its not just any cheap preampt, but any amp is open to distortion at certain levels.  unless you are using ribbon mics (which none of us are) the issue of the mic clipping is almost never gonna be the issue.  It's gonna be an issue of overloading the pre or the a/d.  

[zhianosatch]

Highly dubious.

[Nick's Picks]

the only mic I ever had that regularly clipped due to its maximum SPL being reached was the ST-250..believe it or not.

They say it can handle 120db on its own.  Horseshit!  I measured and measured and tested until I was blue, and it was more like 113 - 118db before it would clip.
A *very* sensitive mic.  End result (other than ruining a lot of my first recordings w/it) is that I had to engage the -20db pad on it at all times.  Even for bands like "rusted root" that are not loud.

On stage for SKB or JFJO, the SPLs would be in the 120+ range on certain louder passages.  Pretty freakin' loud.

[Nick's Picks]

for shits and giggles, pick up one of those RS SPL meeters and bring it to shows.  Then you'll know what you are getting.  You'll find that most peak moments are in the 100-110db range if you measure from the SBD.

[Arglebargle]

I don't see how it could be my preamp, I run the DPAs through 15 DB attenuators before it hits the preamp, I guess it could be the attenuators maybe, but I've eliminated all other variables. With the 15 DB attenuation I run the AD20 knobs at about 12 oclock to get full peaks, about the same as with my AKG 480s set to -10, I've run my AKGs at 0 attenuation (there's the switch on the mic) and the AD20 knobs were as low as they could go and had some clipping when it went over 0, but the WAVform itself wasn't clipped below zero, like the DPAs when I get them to close to the speakers. I think the noise levels get really loud as you get closer. It was basically an experiment to acheive stress free chatter free tapes but it had limited success. A few shows sounded great, and a few really stunk. It worked well in small clubs or larger clubs with a large stage.

[VA_TAPER]

I run the AD20

nuff said, AD20=minimum 40db gain even with 15db attn it's still 25db gain before A/D, so you're either clipping the output tage of the pre or the input of the A/D
peace chris