Topic: CMR/CMC6 Comp

[edtyre]

At Gathering Of The Vibes the only group i really wasn't interested in recording
was Harlem Gospel Choir, so i decided to try this comp out during their set.
I recorded 12 minutes of them but cut that down to the first 3 minutes for this comp.
There is some wind noise (couldn't fit my windscreens on for this mounting)

No blind test here, each file is marked and they are 24 bit mono files.
mk-41>cmr>naiant pfa>r-44 (24/44.1)
mk-41>kc5>cmc6>r-44(24/44.1)
both caps were in the same vertical plane facing the speaker stack.
the cmr is the closer one

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=48BOZN3L

[edtyre]

If you want to hear what they both sound like together in a 4 channel mix
check out Further's set from friday night
http://www.archive.org/details/furthur2010-07-30.edtyre

[Big Perm]

very cool, i cant wait to listen when i get home!!
a

[rich]

If you want to hear what they both sound like together in a 4 channel mix
check out Further's set from friday night
http://www.archive.org/details/furthur2010-07-30.edtyre

sweet beaver! sounds great!

rich

[DSatz]

mshilarious wrote:

> Difference in frequency response due to capsule variation or change in response from lower polarization voltage?  I don't know.

Certainly not from lower polarization voltage, since that doesn't affect frequency response; it only affects sensitivity and therefore (indirectly) dynamic range.

It could be capsule variation and/or it could be the slightly different positioning and/or some other external factor that none of us knows about because it wasn't our recording.

--best regards

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Thanks for doing this.   I found this material - and the PA - difficult to listen to.   Based on the lack of feedback, I'm guessing I'm not the only one

[willndmb]

they sound almost exctly the same to me
but if i reallllllly listen close i think the cmc6 has ever so slightly crisper lyrics
for the difference in cost and size i would not be afraid to run the cmr (based on this comp anyway)
thanks

[bobbygeeWOW]

hm, so this is kind of interesting to me right now...

I mean obviously the schoeps fellas are serious experts so if they state that frequency response is not affected, that's pretty solid.

But (heheh..) hypothetically it seems like if reduced sensitivity is going to affect the sound then the high frequencies would be affected first.
This might not be particularly noticeable in itself but it would also affect the imaging and depth, ie, "sense of space", which would also be more difficult to positively identify..
Completely irrelevant to lavalier applications but pretty crucial for ambient stereo recording..

[bobbygeeWOW]

Thanks Jon, makes perfect sense - but what I'm getting at is a little different, more along the lines of how applying a beefy windscreen tends to reduce HF while LF flows right through.
Seems reasonable that a lower sensitivity mic would notice the more subtle vibrations of air less, which would be the HF vibes. or..?

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I'm sure the CMRs can make very good recordings.  But I still haven't heard a decent comp.

Nor have a heard a stunning recording made with CMRs.

I notice a lot of people who were absolutely ga-ga over CMRs have sold them.

[stevetoney]

Nor have a heard a stunning recording made with CMRs.

Check LMA and they're there, but make sure that you're listening to a recording made with the best gear (like higher end preamps and such) and prime mic locations.  The fact is that I think most people are using the CMRs with the tinybox/littlebox for low profile recording and honestly, IMHO while the LB or tinybox is a great product for the price, it isn't a V3 or a Schoeps preamp.

I notice a lot of people who were absolutely ga-ga over CMRs have sold them.

Please don't reach conclusions where there are none to reach.  I can't speak for others, and I was never one that was ga-ga or otherwise expressed strong opinions on the CMR vs. schoepsnbox debate (other than I did express my opinion that Schoepsnbox fluffing his own gear was self serving.)

However, I sold my CMRs simply because I have KCY cables to work with my VMS5U preamp and needed to fund another purchase.  I knew the CMRs would move quickly and they were the most expendable part of my rig that I knew would generate a quick $1K. 

I'd buy CMRs again in a minute...I was very happy with the sound of CMRs and loved the flexibility they provided.

[NOLAfishwater]

I will try to borrow my buddy's 680 and run two pairs of mics onstage. probably will be mk5 card + mk8 fig eight for both pairs. hmmm.

so it will be mk5 card + mk21 ab > cmr > 680
or
mk5 card + mk21 ab > kcy > vst62iu > 680

[darktrain]

I'm sure the CMRs can make very good recordings.  But I still haven't heard a decent comp.

Nor have a heard a stunning recording made with CMRs.

I notice a lot of people who were absolutely ga-ga over CMRs have sold them.

I would say sometimes situations in ones life may dictate moving gear and only a few have sold em but like most of the gear and people here(not all) we "rifle" through everything out there just because we are always trying and buying, i actually had mine sold due to the realization that shows will be few and far between for the foreseable future but for now i have held onto em because for now i just don't need the money and i am very partial to em. They have made some fantastic recordings, open and "not so open" but they haven't been around as long so the "library" isn't as big either, not every recording with a nbox is a killer either(thats no knock).

[Big Perm]

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=537773. - Phish outdoors

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=537518  - blues traveler small club

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=540335  - black crowes med. Size venue

here are 3 examples of different bands, different conditions, using 3 different pre amps (psp-3, sonosax, & m248) all CMR.
sorry that I don't have smaller size samples at the moment, I will work on that.
My CMR set up is for sale, and it has NOTHING to do with liking or disliking the set up. I LOVE the set up and am frankly in no super hurry to sell it. I am just trying to put some money back into the account after my purchase of brand new t00bs! I actually held on to this set up longer than the Nbox+. This is not a dig at the Nbox, I just simply like the freedom of using different pre amps. The CMR's give me that freedom when using the Naiant PFA.
a

[bobbygeeWOW]

No, sensitivity is simply electrical output for a given sound pressure input.  Changing the polarization voltage a small amount is not going to result in a material change in the mechanical system, certainly nothing like a thick windscreen.

Okay thanks. Electrical output is reduced evenly across all frequencies, that's clear.

I was wondering about the second part of your answer (not knowing mic operation) - whether in theory a reduced voltage could affect ability of the capsules to transduce sound pressure input into electrical output in any way. Thanks for the answer on that also

[DSatz]

bobbygeeWOW, that is really just the same question put in different words from before. The answer would be the same.

Nowadays some manufacturers of condenser microphones (e.g. Neumann) don't use capacitive pads in their microphones--instead, they reduce the polarization voltage to the capsule, specifically to avoid any influence on the sound quality.

The response characteristics of a capsule are controlled by its acoustical design--the physical factors which include its diaphragm, backplate, acoustical chambering, housing size/shape and so on. That stuff can be quite complex and subtle, but a capsule's sensitivity is always directly proportional to the polarization voltage. That is practically the only parameter of a capsule that's so simple; don't make it complicated in your mind!

--best regards

[bobbygeeWOW]

Better my mind than yours!
Thanks Dave, Cheers!