Topic: Attenuator/Pad questions

[su6oxone]

I'm in the market for some attenuators and have a couple questions:

1. Should I try to buy a 'reputable' brand when getting a pair of attenuators?  Or should a no-name from ebay be fine?
2. Does it matter which end of the attenuator you connect to the source (e.g. SBD)?  For example, the XLR-F or XLR-M end both will attenuate the signal (that is, are they bidirectional)?
3. What are some good attenuators (specific brands, etc.)?
4. Anyone use RCA attenuators (as opposed to XLR types)?  And if so, where to find them (seem relatively rare online)? 
5. Can the attenuator be anywhere in the signal/gear chain as long as it is before the pre or recorder (e.g. SBD > RCA cables/adapter > XLR attenuator > recorder)?

Thanks in advance!

[Church-Audio]

I'm in the market for some attenuators and have a couple questions:

1. Should I try to buy a 'reputable' brand when getting a pair of attenuators?  Or should a no-name from ebay be fine?
2. Does it matter which end of the attenuator you connect to the source (e.g. SBD)?  For example, the XLR-F or XLR-M end both will attenuate the signal (that is, are they bidirectional)?
3. What are some good attenuators (specific brands, etc.)?
4. Anyone use RCA attenuators (as opposed to XLR types)?  And if so, where to find them (seem relatively rare online)? 
5. Can the attenuator be anywhere in the signal/gear chain as long as it is before the pre or recorder (e.g. SBD > RCA cables/adapter > XLR attenuator > recorder)?

Thanks in advance!

The attenuator should always be last in line. That way you maximize the signal to noise ratio.. That being said if there is any part of the signal chain that can overload then the attenuator must be in place before that device. You also need to know how much attenuation is required. Its much better to attenuate at the console then take a hot signal if its at all possible why? Because if you can eliminate the need to attenuate you are probably better off. Just like Jon has mentioned there are many factors involved with attenuation such as impedance. What are you trying to attenuate?

Chris

[mloewen]

I'm in the market for some attenuators and have a couple questions:


4. Anyone use RCA attenuators (as opposed to XLR types)?  And if so, where to find them (seem relatively rare online)? 

I found this one it worked well when I needed it.  http://calraddistributor.com/10-105.html

[Church-Audio]

I'm in the market for some attenuators and have a couple questions:


4. Anyone use RCA attenuators (as opposed to XLR types)?  And if so, where to find them (seem relatively rare online)? 

I found this one it worked well when I needed it.  http://calraddistributor.com/10-105.html

That looks like it would work.. Probably a 10k dual pot. Again with out knowing what he is trying to attenuate its hard to make suggestions.. If its unbalanced audio via an RCA connector it should be high impedance and probably 20k + 4 or -10 db

[su6oxone]

Thanks for the input/help everyone!  I was planning on getting/using an attenuator for use with a M10 when getting soundboard patches, as I assume it has consumer line level input (and I've had overloaded patches with my R-09HR in the past).  I thought it was a fairly simple proposition, just stick one of those somewhere between the SBD and the recorder and you would be good to go, but I see that it's more technically involved than that.  So it seems that using an attenuator should be avoided in the first place (  ) but if you want/need to use one then it should ideally be directly connected to the recorder. 

So I should be able to use something like (the only RCA pads with at least 10dB attenuation):

http://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator/dp/B0006N41B0
http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/Rothwell-Audio-In-Line-RCA-Attenuators-Pair/product_3592

I could connect these to the line-in on a M10 using a dual RCA female > 1/8" male adapter. 

I had previously been using my Marantz PMD661 for patches and was planning on selling it, but maybe I should hang onto it if only for this purpose -- for which it's especially useful since it has a pro line level in and up to -18dB pad as well (although I've never used that when getting a patch). 

[Church-Audio]

Thanks for the input/help everyone!  I was planning on getting/using an attenuator for use with a M10 when getting soundboard patches, as I assume it has consumer line level input (and I've had overloaded patches with my R-09HR in the past).  I thought it was a fairly simple proposition, just stick one of those somewhere between the SBD and the recorder and you would be good to go, but I see that it's more technically involved than that.  So it seems that using an attenuator should be avoided in the first place (  ) but if you want/need to use one then it should ideally be directly connected to the recorder. 

So I should be able to use something like (the only RCA pads with at least 10dB attenuation):

http://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator/dp/B0006N41B0
http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/Rothwell-Audio-In-Line-RCA-Attenuators-Pair/product_3592

I could connect these to the line-in on a M10 using a dual RCA female > 1/8" male adapter. 

I had previously been using my Marantz PMD661 for patches and was planning on selling it, but maybe I should hang onto it if only for this purpose -- for which it's especially useful since it has a pro line level in and up to -18dB pad as well (although I've never used that when getting a patch).

If you are going to take a sound board patch.... The best plan of action is asking if the output they are giving you can be attenuated. If it can then that is the best way to go. Also 10 db might not be enough. Its hard to say I think the attenuator suggested would work fine.. I suppose its a good thing to have in your tool kit if the levels just can be reduced enough at the source.

[dlh]

I've tried the calrad
http://calraddistributor.com/10-105.html

and found slight level difference between L and R.

I switched to the cheap ones from Parts Express
http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?FTR=line+level+attenuator&search_type=main&WebPage_ID=3&searchFilter=line+level+attenuator

and found level differences between 4 different ones and a hum in one of them.

So I've settle on the Harrison Labs ones
http://store.hlabs.com/pk4/store.pl?section=11

They make lots of handy signal modifiers.
So I wasted some money on cheap stuff before moving on to the better stuff.
I initially used them to attenuate phono preamp output into soundcard, but have since use them on SBD patches.
I carry them with me all the time now.

Dave

[SmokinJoe]

In regards to XLR attenuators, I use the ones from Naiant.  Happy to support our team.

If you are going into an M10, that's a 1/8" stereo miniplug, right?  I would go to Walmart or Radio shack and get a simple 1/8" in-line volume control for iPod ear buds.  It's cheap, like $10.  Are they likely to be top quality?  No, but it's probably good enough, especially if you are dealing with a hot signal.  Use your RCA's > 1/8" cable, and then put the headphone volume control in the line between there and the M10.  Start off with it turned all the way up (no attenuation) at which point it's just a straight through wire.  If you have to turn it down a little, you just turn it down.

If you cringe at the idea of using a cheap thing from walmart, I'm sure there is someone glad to sell you an "audiophile quality" one which is basically the same thing at a higher price.

[su6oxone]

Thanks y'all for the input and suggestions, I'll check some of them out. 

[taperj]

These -20dB pads have done about 200 shows with me behind my skm184 or skm140 and have done their job admirably. Pads should be run as close to the final desination as possible. ie - if you are running them behind mics and before your pre you would run them with stubbies to your pre, not stubbies to your mics and long cable to the pre(I know you said it was more for sbd patches here but that's just an illustrative example)



There is a very detailed thread about pads as they relate to mics and on-mic vs inline pads and their effects on distortion etc, I can't seem to find it searching at the moment... I don't think it probably relates in this instance but if interested to read more about pads it's here to be dug up

J