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Author Topic: Need recorder for jam sessions  (Read 2575 times)

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Offline randelph

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Need recorder for jam sessions
« on: July 13, 2015, 04:17:33 PM »
I play keys, flutes and hand drums in jam sessions that I typically go to a couple times a week ;D. The volume ranges from mellow to very loud drum circle volumes. What I want is something that has decent onboard Mics;I'm already setting up a keyboard with battery and inverter, an amp, microphone and drum, so I really don't want to deal with external mics.  The jams I go to are both indoor and outdoor.

My ideal would be something that has great onboard mics, four track recording, the ability to place a mark while recording (and during playback, not sure if that's a feature any of them have), great battery life, small size and under $200 new.  I'm ok with used and would even forgo four track recording if there was a two tracker with great onboard mics that was inexpensive and met the other criteria.

Thanks!

Offline goodcooker

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Re: Need recorder for jam sessions
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2015, 05:39:58 PM »

I have not used one personally but the Zoom H5 meets most of your criteria. Onboard mics (which you can swap out for other patterns at an additional cost), four tracks, almost any recorder can place marks nowadays...may just be a little out of your stated budget new but maybe you could turn up a used one for less.

My only experience with one of these was that I was recording a show and a young fella came up to ask me if I was recording and showed me his Zoom H5 and said he planned to place it on the stage.

His recording here...Zoom on a little tripod (a few inches) on stage between the monitors center https://archive.org/details/WaitingRoom20150221

Mine with large diaphram ADK mics from 20 feet back for comparison https://archive.org/details/twiddle2015-02-21.adk.flac24

His got more downloads than mine.


Hope that helps.
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Offline randelph

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Re: Need recorder for jam sessions
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2015, 02:08:35 PM »
Wow, that's a tough one.  If the other guy was next to the monitors, he was in an ideal position, live recordings often sound lost-in-space.  The vocals at the beginning of the 2d song on your recording sound distant, but the H5 sounds clear, and even the reverberations on the vocals is picked up well.  On the other hand, there's almost no bass on the H5 recording, and there's something weird happening in the midrange.  The other taper would have been better  served putting his unit next to FOH speakers instead of monitors that didn't have the full mix. So with you being in the audience, its an apples/oranges comparison.

That's the problem I've had with any recording setup I've used, if you're not right on top of the source, speaker or instrument, it sounds distant.  I've wondered if a single good quality omni mic would do the trick, but that question is for another post.
My question is, what reasonably priced 4 track recorder can I get that does good quality recording using the onboard mics even if you're not right on top of the speaker/sound source?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 04:27:53 PM by randelph »

Offline aaronji

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Re: Need recorder for jam sessions
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2015, 02:28:00 PM »
I am not sure what the purpose of four essentially coincident mics would be, other than doing surround recordings.  I think the Zoom H2n does that, kind of, in your price range...

Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Need recorder for jam sessions
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2015, 02:59:54 PM »

His recording here...Zoom on a little tripod (a few inches) on stage between the monitors center https://archive.org/details/WaitingRoom20150221

Mine with large diaphram ADK mics from 20 feet back for comparison https://archive.org/details/twiddle2015-02-21.adk.flac24

His got more downloads than mine.


Proof people don't listen to what they download?  It is apples and oranges in terms of placement and gear and the mix available at each source but the Zoom is highly compressed and one dimensional. 

If I was going to listen no question which I would listen to...


To the OP's question I doubt there are many options that are cheap with good internal mics.  Internal mics are a crap shoot and not many here would rely on those.  There might have been some comparison thread of a few options around here somewhere. 

OTOH if you want four tracks it's a pretty short list so you should be able to look at the specs (cost, pattern of the onboard mics, specs of the onboard mics, max SPL) and make some determination on that basis. 
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Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline randelph

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Re: Need recorder for jam sessions
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2015, 04:10:29 PM »
I am not sure what the purpose of four essentially coincident mics would be, other than doing surround recordings.  I think the Zoom H2n does that, kind of, in your price range...
Huh? I want a 4 track for those times I'm getting a 2 tr board feed plus use the onboard mics.  My question was about getting a decent recording just using the onboard mics.

Offline randelph

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Re: Need recorder for jam sessions
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2015, 04:23:57 PM »

His recording here...Zoom on a little tripod (a few inches) on stage between the monitors center https://archive.org/details/WaitingRoom20150221

Mine with large diaphram ADK mics from 20 feet back for comparison https://archive.org/details/twiddle2015-02-21.adk.flac24

His got more downloads than mine.


Proof people don't listen to what they download?  It is apples and oranges in terms of placement and gear and the mix available at each source but the Zoom is highly compressed and one dimensional. 

If I was going to listen no question which I would listen to...


To the OP's question I doubt there are many options that are cheap with good internal mics.  Internal mics are a crap shoot and not many here would rely on those.  There might have been some comparison thread of a few options around here somewhere. 

OTOH if you want four tracks it's a pretty short list so you should be able to look at the specs (cost, pattern of the onboard mics, specs of the onboard mics, max SPL) and make some determination on that basis.

I didn't like either recording, I listened primarily to the second track in the beginning with vocals. Overall I liked Goodcookers sound, the bass and full mix sounded good, but the vocals were distant.  The H5 had clear vocals, but the rest of the mix was gutted and hollow,but i have no way to compare cause he was next to monitors that obviously didn't have the full mix, esp the bass, was prob the vocalists monitor, which may have had added reverb that wasn't as strong in the foh mix.

I know you guys are serious about your setup and mostly use external mics, but I can't think of any other forum where I'm likely to get an answer, and many of you have used your onboard mics, if only as a point of comparison for knowing how much better your results are using a proper setup.

I have considered getting headphone mics, but when I looked into the Roland, it apparently distorts easily, which is  not suitable for the drum circle volumes these jams sometimes get to.  Headphone mics are better in my situation cause I'm playing different instruments and wouldn't want to leave a recorder and mics just sitting out somewhere.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 04:34:19 PM by randelph »

Offline boltman

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Re: Need recorder for jam sessions
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2015, 04:46:42 PM »
Send a PM to furburger.  He can help you out.

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Need recorder for jam sessions
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2015, 05:13:54 PM »
The H2N's multiple mic patterns might help - scope to try it in various positions with various of its multiple mics operating.

Offline jefflester

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Re: Need recorder for jam sessions
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2015, 06:22:51 PM »
His got more downloads than mine.
Posted a few days earlier, simple enough answer.
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Need recorder for jam sessions
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2015, 06:26:33 PM »
I am not sure what the purpose of four essentially coincident mics would be, other than doing surround recordings.  I think the Zoom H2n does that, kind of, in your price range...
Huh? I want a 4 track for those times I'm getting a 2 tr board feed plus use the onboard mics.  My question was about getting a decent recording just using the onboard mics.

Easy enough to interpret your original post as four tracks on internal mics.  But no matter.  For $200, you're not getting what you want.  Or even close.  The H2n might work.  Or the furburger route...

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Need recorder for jam sessions
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2015, 07:26:59 PM »
I play keys, flutes and hand drums in jam sessions that I typically go to a couple times a week ;D. The volume ranges from mellow to very loud drum circle volumes. What I want is something that has decent onboard Mics;I'm already setting up a keyboard with battery and inverter, an amp, microphone and drum, so I really don't want to deal with external mics.  The jams I go to are both indoor and outdoor.

My ideal would be something that has great onboard mics, four track recording, the ability to place a mark while recording (and during playback, not sure if that's a feature any of them have), great battery life, small size and under $200 new.  I'm ok with used and would even forgo four track recording if there was a two tracker with great onboard mics that was inexpensive and met the other criteria.

Thanks!

Not sure if it's ideal, but it's 4 tracks with onboard mics for $139.00

http://www.amazon.com/DR-40-4-Track-Portable-Digital-Recorder/dp/B005NACC6M
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Offline furburger

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Re: Need recorder for jam sessions
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2015, 05:30:55 AM »
I dig the Tascam DR-2D  (discontinued), the newer version is the one posted above.



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