Topic: Sound Devices all in one box

[BCostigan]

I'm surprised news of this hasn't been posted here yet or maybe I missed it.  Depending what the price is for the 2 channel unit it looks like a great all in one box!!  Anyone have any info on this thing??  Are flash cards needed?  Anyone herad of a price for the 2 channel version?  I grabbed these links from the other board. Curious but feel better asking here rather than over there

http://www.sounddevices.com/7/744t.jpg
http://www.sounddevices.com/7/744t-in.jpg
http://www.sounddevices.com/7/744t-out.jpg

[creekfreak]

this thing looked very cool, more interested just in the HD recording capabilites, but for people that love the mp-2 and other SD products this thing could be killer

[BCostigan]

Yea.....I actually liked the sound of my mp2 but wanted better a/d conversion than that of my d-7 which is why I got the ad-1000.

Someone on the oade board said that it will be about $2300 (?) for the 4 channel version shown.  If the 2 channel version is $1500 or less I'd be temped!!

The HD is also crucial...I guess (from what I've read) flash cards are pretty expebsive.

[schoeps t00bes]

i am VERY intersted in the HD technology that will be coming out in the nest few years, but there is no way i will be buying a first generation unit.  hopefully, sound devices will come out with this product and the "big" name manufacturer's will follow.  
dave

[Lee]

I'm definately looking forward to this one.  I love my mp-2 sound and I'm excited about a reliable HD recording solution- wonder how the A/D sounds? (don't want to get rid of my apogee quite yet)

-Lee

[tim in jersey]

has onboard 40GB HD upgradeable to 60GB AND flashcard capabilities. can't wait to learn more. slated to be available late summer 2003.


more info here:
http://www.sonicsense.com/744t.htm

[Lee]

Sign me up!... 2 problems I see

1) Doesn't look like they've addressed the .wav file length limit with their own format (like the foretold zaxcom units).  I can live with that.

2) how am I going to come up with $2k by the end of the summer !!!

</drool> (for now)

-Lee

(+T for the heads up   )

[tim in jersey]

I'm no expert, but I've been told the .wav file limit is unique to windows and that it is irrelevant to HD recording. Can anyone out there enlighten us?

1) Doesn't look like they've addressed the .wav file length limit with their own format (like the foretold zaxcom units).  I can live with that.

[Lee]

say it is only relative to windoze... what if I want to transfer a show larger than 2:59- what then?  I wonder if I can do track splits in the SD box?

[John Kelly]

Use a mac?  

[tim in jersey]

Good question. When I get home, I'm going to create a >2GB and play around. I know SF Vegas Video handles 2GB+ files when recording by converting to a proprietary file format. I'll see if it can handle a .wav file that is 2GB+. I'll post here if I find anything out...

say it is only relative to windoze... what if I want to transfer a show larger than 2:59- what then?  I wonder if I can do track splits in the SD box?

[DaryanLenz]

Wavelab handles them too...by splitting the file into 2 when you approach the 2gb limit.  IMHO, the limit thing is stupid, and is just another reason why monopolized software is a bad idea!

Daryan

[F.O.Bean]

3 hr. limit??? how many gigs does this use in 3 hr.???i just wanna say i know NOTHING about computer recording....  why have a gig limit??? what bs... also, what bit rate and sampling frequency can you record on that to get 3 hrs....? 24/96???

bean

[ducati]

1 hour at 24/48: 1 gig
1 hour at 24/96: 2 gigs

So an average 24/48 show is 2-3 gigs, 24/96 4-6 gigs.

I recorded a >2gig .wav file with cooledit.  Not sure how, as it's supposed to blow up  Most windows programs stripe the files as they are recording or in post-processing to get around the limitation.

So macs don't have a 2 gig limit?  We're buying my wife an iBook, I will go on record and say I don't know DIDDLY 'bout macs

As I posted on the other thread, I think this HD device is a killer deal.

[dmonterisi]

this could be wrong but i was under the impression that the 2 gig limit was an older windows limitation that is not an issue in recent versions of windows.  However, some software distributors have not modified their code and their specific programs (eg wavelab) are not able to handle files over 2 gigs.  i' not sure which programs can handle 2 gigs, but some of them can.  the wavelab issue is a major pain in the ass.  if your temp file hits 2 gigs while resampling for example the process stops and you have to cut up the file.  what a load of shit.

-damon

[tim in jersey]

OK, I created a 1 1/2 hour file @ 24/96 that is 2.89GB using Cooledit Pro 1.2.

Wavelab 4, Soundforge 5, Vegas Video 3 all choked on it. I had hoped Vegas would handle it, but apparently it only converts to it's proprietary format during recording and the 2GB limit is breached. And oddly enough CEP choked on it too, and I used CEP to create the file. Wierd.

Anyhow, I vaugely recalled reading something about a corrupted 24 bit file being repaired on the laptop tapers list. I searched the archive and found this:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/laptop-tapers/message/3651

I just d/led the app. Looks promising. Perhaps the new SD recorder will offer a feature where split points can be set and we won't need to worry about it, but it's nice to know there is a workaround, just in case.

say it is only relative to windoze... what if I want to transfer a show larger than 2:59- what then?  I wonder if I can do track splits in the SD box?

[ducati]

Very interesting; I do recall having a 2.4 gig file recorded with CE2k, but since it was just a test, I never opened the whole thing!  Good to know, thanks for the link!   +T

Oh, and BTW...  The show I recorded last night was about 7 gigs in total.  Damn, these 24/96 files get big FAST..!

[Lee]

Damn... where am I going to get this kind of cash??? I must have one of these!!

mfrench, +T for the heads up

-Lee  

[tim in jersey]

Cool, SD updated the site. Thanks for the heads up mfrench.

One of the features I'm glad to see is that it can be powered externally on 6v. I wonder what kinda mah this thing is gonna draw...

[jpschust]

first off- wavelab wasnt made for what we use it for.... it was meant for studio work where you usually arent working with more than 10 minutes of music per file, also who cares, split your files, just split em at songs- you are gonna split em later anyways.

Jonny

[tim in jersey]

Grafted from the laptop-tapers mailing list:

Message: 3
   Date: 24 Apr 2003 14:21:39 EDT
   From: scott.c.brown.02@alum.dartmouth.org
Subject: Fwd: RE: 744/722 2GB file limit

---Forwarded Message---
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:18:24 -0500
From: "Matt Anderson" <matt_anderson@sounddevices.com>
Subject: RE: 744/722 2GB file limit
To: <scb02@Alum.Dartmouth.ORG>
-----------------------
Scott-

The limit is technically 4G, although some older programs have a
2G limit as a result of using an unsigned integer format.  
Anyway, 4G is the limit inherent to FAT32.  Our recorder will
start a new file automatically when the 4G limit is reached.  
This parameter can be selected between 1, 2, or 4G for the max
file size before a new file is started.

Cheers,
Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott C. Brown 02
[mailto:Scott.C.Brown.02@Alum.Dartmouth.ORG] Sent: Thursday,
April 24, 2003 12:38 PM To: Matt Anderson
Subject: 744/722 2GB file limit


will these recorders get around the 2GB file limit for .wav
files?

scott

[Lee]

A little more of the same, but they're still on the horizon...

http://www.sounddevices.com/dload/7-series.pdf

[cpclark]

great link lee, good reading, hope they work out the bugs quick after they start shipping, so i can pick up a re 2 or 3 by next summer

[utahtaper]

I was going pre-order one of these units but after buying a V3 and loving it I'm going to have to put up with DAT a little longer before I can afford one.

[super-phat-al]

+T for the awesome link

[scb]

apparently the boxes are going to be 2x as thick as the mp2/usbpre now

[Tim]

I was going pre-order one of these units but after buying a V3 and loving it I'm going to have to put up with DAT a little longer before I can afford one.

are you saying that you would get rid of the v3 and just run this box?

I find that shocking and I've heard lots of people say this same thing.

[dmonterisi]

i don't think that's what he's saying.  seems that he's short on cash after buying a v3 and can't afford the sd722 as well.

why do you find it so shocking?  i personally wouldn't do it, but that's a pretty affordable all-in-one solution.  haven't run any sounddevices stuff so i can't comment on the overall quality, but for under 2 grand, you get pre/ a>d / and 24bit recorder with 80gigs of storage?!?

[Tim]

ahh, you are right... that is what he is saying!

I just doubt that this box will be the end all for folks who are already running hq outboard gear. I've talked iwth people whu run grace and apogee products who can't wait to dump there outbaord gear and just run this box. I'm sure it's pre will be adequate as will the a/d but I can't imagine that they will sound better than some of the outboard gear that is already in use.

sorry, haven't had my coffee yet!

[utahtaper]

I was going pre-order one of these units but after buying a V3 and loving it I'm going to have to put up with DAT a little longer before I can afford one.

are you saying that you would get rid of the v3 and just run this box?

I find that shocking and I've heard lots of people say this same thing.

No see that's the problem. I don't want to get rid of the V3 and I will have a hard time dishing out the cabbage for that recorder just to have the HD part. I doubt I would buy it for it's pre/ad section. Not that it isn't good. I may just need a no frills HD box so I could run the V3 in front of it.

[John R]

i won't be dropping the v3, that's for sure.  this unit will replace the dat.  80gig!!  i thought the prelim specs were 40gig.  cool

jr

[Nick Culbreth]

i can't wait until these things come out... running skm140 > 722 as a stealth rig is going to kick ass.

[Nick's Picks]

my plan exactly.
I cant decide if I'm going to ditch the V3 to fund the SD or not though.
we'll see.

god, its fun

[Simp-Dawg]

personally i'm very pleased with sound devices pre/a-d in the usbpre i have and i can only imagine this will be at least as good and probably better, plus with built in hd recorder it is mighty tasty!

[scb]

>>running skm140 > 722 as a stealth rig is going to kick ass.<<

i'll repeat: apparently the units will be 2x as thick as the original pictures.  not exactly ideal to stealth when something is close to 3 inches thick

[Ed.]

ack, the three inch thing doesn't sound like fun, however i think theres going to be lots of competition between this and the pdAudio device.  Granted, size doesn't matter for most of you, but for the stealthers, its hard to stealth all your gadgets and widgets, so sometimes we have to cut back on what we take with this.  The pdaudio device will still require preamps and adc's, plus you'll have to carry 40 compact flash cards with you.

those 3 inches might be worth it, i dunno, i'm gonna buy myself some mics first and worry about this when the prices drop.  but hey, way cool advancements are on the horizon.

ed

[Lee]

ack, the three inch thing doesn't sound like fun, however i think theres going to be lots of competition between this and the pdAudio device.  Granted, size doesn't matter for most of you, but for the stealthers, its hard to stealth all your gadgets and widgets, so sometimes we have to cut back on what we take with this.  The pdaudio device will still require preamps and adc's, plus you'll have to carry 40 compact flash cards with you.

those 3 inches might be worth it, i dunno, i'm gonna buy myself some mics first and worry about this when the prices drop.  but hey, way cool advancements are on the horizon.

ed

Going with the thread hijack... has anyone gotten this thing to work yet?  The coresound hack, I mean

[Ed.]

i think its all just a matter of time, PDAs are going to continuosly get cheaper, along with compact flash.  Both are quite expensive still at the moment, but they keep dropping and new bonuses keep coming with them.

i personally think the sd722 looks like more fun to play with than the core sound thing.  Plus, i can press record and leave it be, if its boasting an 80gig hdd, i'm pretty sure you won't have to look at it once the levels are set giving you all the time in the world to do other things....

ed

[Sean Gallemore]

apparently the boxes are going to be 2x as thick as the mp2/usbpre now

so I'd have to get another operation to be able to stealth this thing?

[Lee]

apparently the boxes are going to be 2x as thick as the mp2/usbpre now

so I'd have to get another operation to be able to stealth this thing?

Just dip your junk in some icewater before securing it... like a frightened turtle...

[zhianosatch]

that's what i thought the three inch comment was about...

[cpclark]

i might get this before the summer and run v2 -> sd722, i think a lot of tapers will still use outboard pre's and if the a/d is good, and i bet it will be, thats what a lot of people will do, or a lot of cheaper used gear will be on the market for newbs and upgrade junkies

[wboswell]

I am only seeing internal storage of 40g on a 2.5 inch hard drive, not an 80g hd.

[scb]

>> I am only seeing internal storage of 40g on a 2.5 inch hard drive, not an 80g hd.<<


the latest specs from SD say 80

[wboswell]

I gotcha.  I was just reading off the site (http://www.sounddevices.com/products/7.htm) and didn't see the 80g.  I watched the slide presentation and saw the new specs.  Thanks

[marc0789]

Looks to me like you're stuck with the onboard pre and a/d, is this accurate? If so, that kinda sucks, based on my experience with SD products. Can't address the a/d, but I was less than satisfied with the mp-2 preamp. Not bad, just nothing I'd want to run all the time. Imo.

[dmonterisi]

no, it has digi i/o

[iphone]

anybody know if the 4 channel unit can take 2 digi ins at the same time?

[DaryanLenz]

I seriously doubt it.  I don't know about spending 2 grand on a unit which I would probably not use most of the features.  Doesn't really seem logical, especially considering those fujitsu lappy's are the same price, can be powered realitively inexspensively, and are about the same size, if not smaller.  My 3.2 cents for the day

D

[Sean Gallemore]

strip it down

[Tim]

I seriously doubt it.  I don't know about spending 2 grand on a unit which I would probably not use most of the features.  Doesn't really seem logical, especially considering those fujitsu lappy's are the same price, can be powered realitively inexspensively, and are about the same size, if not smaller.  My 3.2 cents for the day

D

look at all the features on a dap1 people never used....

one advantage to this is not having to deal with tweaking a computer until it records flawlessly... that's a real Pain In the Ass for a lot of people

also this is built to be used in the field, a lappy certainly is not

[Nick Culbreth]

look at all the features on a dap1 people never used....

one advantage to this is not having to deal with tweaking a computer until it records flawlessly... that's a real Pain In the Ass for a lot of people

also this is built to be used in the field, a lappy certainly is not

its kinda funny that the msrp for the dap1 and sd722 are both 2k and people didn't / don't have a problem buying the dap1 and using it strictly as a recorder but have a problem justifying it w/ the sd722.  i'd be willing to bet that the sd722 ends up retailing in the 1300 - 1500 dollar range which doesn't seem all that unreasonable even if you use it only as a recorder.  just my .02

[F.O.Bean]

look at all the features on a dap1 people never used....

one advantage to this is not having to deal with tweaking a computer until it records flawlessly... that's a real Pain In the Ass for a lot of people

also this is built to be used in the field, a lappy certainly is not

its kinda funny that the msrp for the dap1 and sd722 are both 2k and people didn't / don't have a problem buying the dap1 and using it strictly as a recorder but have a problem justifying it w/ the sd722.  i'd be willing to bet that the sd722 ends up retailing in the 1300 - 1500 dollar range which doesn't seem all that unreasonable even if you use it only as a recorder.  just my .02

i agree....

[wboswell]

Or the Sony D-10 or HHb PDR-1000.  Both of those units cost more than the SD722.  The D-10 has fewer practical features as well-like no preamp...  but it does have that nice built in speaker and those really cool proprietary multi-pin cables...  Still, the better comparison would be to the pdr-1000, which actually has a decent preamp and a/d converter, imo.  At least some of the old Ethan Lee tapes lead me to believe that...  

The biggest advantage of the SD722 in my mind is field durability.  A laptop monitor and exposed keyboard comes to mind as potential problem areas.

[marc0789]

1500 or so seems very reasonable, even a little more, to not have to fuck with dds tapes, misloads, misread "a time", not to mention paying for media. If it turns out to be a reliable unit that will capture a w/s no problem, and I can turn around and drop to cdr and/or dat. However, therein is the problem. What's the long term archive/storage media that is also 24 bit? Sure as hell not the computer h/d, not dvd-r because of durability issues, not cdr because it's 16, and if you wind up deciding that dat or dds is STILL the most reliable of a shaky field of archival options, wtf is the point? Until a stable 24 bit archival option arrives, think I'll stick with the portadat. Plus, used portable dat decks are going to get awfully cheap.

[MattD]

Computer HD + DVD backup is pretty damn good for 24-bit. Sharing your sources helps tons - it's saved my ass before.

-Matt

[wboswell]

Idiot here...  surely there is a way to use an external HD to back everything up using your desktop or laptop as a bus to transport the data?  Then just buy a new hard drive when you fill one up with 24 bit flac files?  Is it as simple as a computer just daisy chain?

[Simp-Dawg]

it is as simple as more hard drive space.  it is as simple as flac'ing your 24bit tracks and archiving them onto cd (albeit it takes 3-4 of them).  it is as simple as archiving onto dvd.  marc, why aren't any of these as viable as DAT tape to you?

[chase]

as long as you get high quality dvd/cd media, i would trust any sort of optical storage device (cd/dvd) much more than a magnetic storage device (dat, hard drive).  the TY discs have a guaranteed archival life of 70 years i believe and i think those gold kodak discs have an archival life of over 100 years, not sure if they make the kodaks anymore, they used to be $1/disc.  i don't understand why you wouldn't trust optical storage devices, especially with how far they have come in the past few years.

[rustle]

I back up all my 24 bit recordings onto DVD+R  But I also leave the files FLAC'd on my HDDs'. I feel better knowing I have the original/clone files on a hard drive, and the DVD back-up.
 On another note, can someone point me to a post that explains how to track 24 bit files, then FLAC? Right now, I'm only FLAC ing the shows un-tracked, and I want to share these without having them be a problem for everyone.
 Thanks,

 Happy Thanksgiving

[chase]

i'm pretty sure the newest version of CDWave supports 24bit files, might just have to download the latest update.

[THE NIZ BIAAAAACH!]

If you know how to write a cue sheet, you can just include it as a text file on the same disc that holds the flac file.

[BobW]

Uh, wait. If a 2GB llimit exists then how can a DVD video be ripped ?
There is more to this than meets the eye.

Anyhow, in practice, serveral audio programs will wiz by the 2GB limit.
Save in native format, not wav.

[F.O.Bean]

Uh, wait. If a 2GB llimit exists then how can a DVD video be ripped ?
There is more to this than meets the eye.

Anyhow, in practice, serveral audio programs will wiz by the 2GB limit.
Save in native format, not wav.

or use FAT32

[scb]

fat32 won't mean a damn thing if you are still using a 32 bit file format like wav...wav files simply cannot be more than 2GB

[F.O.Bean]

fat32 won't mean a damn thing if you are still using a 32 bit file format like wav...wav files simply cannot be more than 2GB

im clueless on some of this scott, what exactly do you mean??? what if the files are 24 bit?? youre saying that NO wav can be bigger than 2 GB??

thanks,
  bean

[MattD]

That's exactly what he's saying. If it is written as wave data, it cannot be bigger than 2 GB. He's not talking about the bit depth of the recorded file, but rather of the file type itself.

In order to have a single file bigger than 2 GB, it must be in some other format such as W64 or SDII extended. I don't know if W64 has a limit, but I think SDII extended has a 6 GB limit.

[F.O.Bean]

That's exactly what he's saying. If it is written as wave data, it cannot be bigger than 2 GB. He's not talking about the bit depth of the recorded file, but rather of the file type itself.

In order to have a single file bigger than 2 GB, it must be in some other format such as W64 or SDII extended. I don't know if W64 has a limit, but I think SDII extended has a 6 GB limit.

+T matt, thanks for the help bro!!