Topic: New firmware for 7XX recorders

[bdasilva]

http://sounddevices.com/download/

Same version... No longer Beta.  (Kinda old news)


added - 47952 and 47952F sampling rates. 47952F mode records at 47952 and stamps files at 48 kHz.
added - MP3-file format recording at numerous data rates
added - MP2 file format recording at numerous data rates
added - FLAC file format recording and playback
added - input gain to infinite attenuation option (Setup Menu selected)
change - media speed test improved. Speed testing for all available drives combined into one menu option. All active drives are tested at different sampling rates and routings.
change - multiple linked units now record with sample-accurate start and stop times, making file management easier in post production
fixed - long CF shutdown time
fixed - AES3-id digital output one sample offset between left to right.
fixed - AES3-id bit stream is incorrectly formatted in consumer mode
fixed - high-pass filter clipping
fixed - gain accuracy improved, better match between actual gain and displayed gain
fixed - files can played back when selected from the Setup Menu (bug introduced in 2.15)
see known issues below

[H₂O]

+T for the heads up

[Crumbo]

thanks!

+T 

this is nice:

fixed - high-pass filter clipping

[Crumbo]

this is nice:

fixed - high-pass filter clipping

Anyone tested that one?  I'll believe it is fixed when I hear it

good point!

[F.O.Bean]

awesome. they also fixed the long shutdown when recording to cf cards IM PSYCHED and will be upgrading here shortly. glad to see this is no longer a beta version and that flac is now a reliable recording medium

[boojum]

. . .  and that flac is now a reliable recording medium

Josh Coalson, the FLAC developer, worked with SD on the implementation.  Apparently SD was having DLL problems that he helped them with.  I got this from Josh.  Anyway, If someone is in a pinch for space, like doing a lot of recording at a festival and has no way to save off the sessions, this would be a life saver.  If you just like to store a lot of your sessions on the SD it is a life saver.

I have not detected any FLAC failures in the year or so that I have been using it to compress WAV files.  Has anyone here had FLAC failures due to the software itself and not cockpit error?

[boojum]

FL - I checked eleven pages returned on a search of FLAC.  The errors fall into three categories: 1) Hardware, failing HD's and flaky RAM; 2) Software, flaky front ends and a padding error message in FLAC that was fixed a couple of years ago; and, 3) cockpit (user) error.  As the only error that I could find directly attributable to FLAC itself is a now-fixed padding error message I consider FLAC to be a good, workable, stable compression tool.  I like it; I use it.  As usual, YMMV

Cheers  ;o)

[F.O.Bean]

so, has anyone used this yet to record to flac straight I have mine upgraded and will try out recording straight to flac either this tues or nest tues, so I will def report in if I have any problems I am thinking/hoping that everything will go smoothly as 2.15 did/does. I dont care about recording to flac just yet, not until festy time anyway, but just want to try it out

[mmedley.]

2.34 was rock solid for me over the weekend. Did about 6-7 hours of recording. Did not use FLAC though.

[F.O.Bean]

2.34 was rock solid for me over the weekend. Did about 6-7 hours of recording. Did not use FLAC though.

+T awesome news. Im sure they wouldnt have released it as a stable version had the flac recording not been on par

[boojum]

I just recorded a jazz group here in town.  The two good sets were 24/48.  The first in FLAC and the second in WAV.  I am just now doing the post work on them.  "Tape at 11:00"   ;o)

edit: typo

[Dutchman1101]

so, has anyone used this yet to record to flac straight I have mine upgraded and will try out recording straight to flac either this tues or nest tues, so I will def report in if I have any problems I am thinking/hoping that everything will go smoothly as 2.15 did/does. I dont care about recording to flac just yet, not until festy time anyway, but just want to try it out

Yep, recoreded Phil and Friends Friday with no problems at all. Seemless splits and that jazz.

[F.O.Bean]

so, has anyone used this yet to record to flac straight I have mine upgraded and will try out recording straight to flac either this tues or nest tues, so I will def report in if I have any problems I am thinking/hoping that everything will go smoothly as 2.15 did/does. I dont care about recording to flac just yet, not until festy time anyway, but just want to try it out

Yep, recoreded Phil and Friends Friday with no problems at all. Seemless splits and that jazz.

did you record to flac?

[boojum]

I just recorded a jazz group here in town.  The two good sets were 24/48.  The first in FLAC and the second in WAV.  I am just not doing the post work on them.  "Tape at 11:00"   ;o)

FLAC worked just fine.  Not that I am surprised.  I would doubt that it would have been included if it didn't work.  And the note from Coalson indicated he was working with SD to get it to work flawlessly.  Somebody's mileage will vary.  But when the problem cannot be reproduced, it is usually cockpit error.  I supported software for 20+ years and have heard a lot of user complaints, "It doesn't work."  "Well, show me where it fails."  "Well, I can't get it to fail right now, but it does fail."  "OK, call me when it fails again."  You rarely, if ever, get that call.  ;o)

[F.O.Bean]

I ran 2.34 tonight for sound tribe sector 9 but chickened out writing flacs. I was the only taper so i recorded to WAV just to be on the safe side I am sure there will be more tapers next tues for YMSB and I will write to flac then BUT, 2.34 worked like a charm so far recording to WAV

[Crumbo]

this is nice:

fixed - high-pass filter clipping

Anyone tested that one?  I'll believe it is fixed when I hear it

cranked the stereo at home today with the hpf set at 80/12 with the gain cranked, hitting the last red light many times and had no nasty clicks that we got before

ymmv

[boojum]

I am quite comfortable using 2.34 for any purpose.  I do not run it hot though, up to the "red" zone.  At 24 bit I leave plenty of headroom and take up the slack after I finish the pre work, then I normalize it to get the levels as high as they can go without clipping.  YMMV

[F.O.Bean]

I am quite comfortable using 2.34 for any purpose.  I do not run it hot though, up to the "red" zone.  At 24 bit I leave plenty of headroom and take up the slack after I finish the pre work, then I normalize it to get the levels as high as they can go without clipping.  YMMV

same here. I 'change gain' in WL 5.0 rather than normalize because I can customize the levels a bit more, but def the same concept I usually peak at -6db or so and add the rest of the gain to get near 0db in post

2.34 has been rock solid for me too the 2 shows(5 sets) I have recorded to WAV with it Im gonna get the balls to try writing to FLAC on tues for YMSB FLAC really has no benefit for me until I do another festival, but I'm just anxious/excited to try it out

[it-goes-to-eleven]

cranked the stereo at home today with the hpf set at 80/12 with the gain cranked, hitting the last red light many times and had no nasty clicks that we got before

Sweet!  The fix was taking so long it looked like some hardware limitation was preventing a solution.

[boojum]

I programmed computers for 20+ years and I have to tell you that all software is buggy.  Some software is more buggy than other software, though. 

[F.O.Bean]

OK, the last few days I have been running EXTENSIVE FLAC recording tests to mainly see if it would hiccup recording to flac or to see if there was considerable battery drain recording to FLAC on the cf card. I have been recording NONSTOP to the INHDD with FLAC to see if it would hiccup on a file and have to start a new one or anything. After MANY hrs of recording to the INHDD with FLAC, I havent noticed ANY failures, altho I havent listened to any oof it(listening to 60hrs of recordings isnt gonna happen). And recording to my 8GB cf card was also flawless.

The one thing that I dont like about recording to flac is, the numbers telling you how much recording time on both teh cf card+INHDD are WAY OFF. The 722 reads 16hrs recording time on my 8GB cf card, but this is WAY OFF. I imagine I could prolly get around 12 hrs recording FLAC to my cf card, but I doubt nomore than that. I wish SD would surely fix this so we can calculate how much recording time we ACTUALLY have left on tehd rives, instead of a roundabout number. I am recording to teh CF Card in FLAC right now to see how much recording time I can ACTUALLY get. The 8GB CF Card starts out reading 16hrs recording time, and now it reads 13hrs:53mins, and there is actually 1hr18mins recorded to teh 722. Thats WAY OFF. But, other than that, everything has been running smoothly. This issue DEFINITELY needs to be brought up to SD, and granted, if I can save 3-4 hrsd record time, thats better than nothing, but the counter shouldnt read 16hrs of record time/space if I realistically dont have NEAR that much, ya know?

Anyone else record to flac and notice this? Come on, and I and Boojum the ONLY ones to try this out and give a review Well, there goes getting 32hrs of record time with just (2) 8GB CF Cards I will also test out transfer speeds too.....

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

I myself have been enjoying writing to all 3.  INT, EXT and CF.  Have been doing it since August and not one error yet.  Lovin the 7 series.  Really don't have a use for the direct to flac record as I have a 500 GB ext. and I never use batteries.

[boojum]

FLAC -  transfer times are the same as for a file of that size in another format.  Windows does not care the format but the size.  IO will check the SD board to see if anyone has posted a problem with FLAC times being wrong on the CF card.

<later>  Nope, nothing on the SD support board.   You may want to tell them:  http://www.sounddevicessupport.com/index.php

[F.O.Bean]

FLAC -  transfer times are the same as for a file of that size in another format.  Windows does not care the format but the size.  IO will check the SD board to see if anyone has posted a problem with FLAC times being wrong on the CF card.

<later>  Nope, nothing on the SD support board.   You may want to tell them:  http://www.sounddevicessupport.com/index.php

Thanks alot bro. I am writing to my 8GB CF Card right now and will see what I can come up with after the card is full so I can see how long it actually recorded. I am SURE its not the WHOLE 16hrs it says is available when I format the card and its fresh. MAYBE actually wrote 12hrs or so in FLAC out of teh 16hrs it says it can record. I am not bitching really, because 4 more hrs per 8GB card is better than NO extra recording time, but I would just like the copunter to say so accordingly, ya know?

Boojum, what size CF Card do you have did you record until your cf card was full and see how long it actually recorded in real-time you shoudl try it. I knwo it sounds like a PITA, but its now. just record the tv a few nights and put your gear right inf ront of it, just format your cf card and set it to record to flac on the CF Card(because while writing to FLAC, you can only choose ONE (1) recording medium. its EITHER CF Card or INHDD or EXHDD, no combination of the 3) so yeah, just get it so your cf card is formatted and 100% fresh and set the 7xx to flac and let her rip. then go back to the cf card after its empty and see how many 2hr:20min files you have. I can almost GUARANTEE that your card does the same thing. I bet it reads 16hrs(if you have an 8GB cf card) and once you actually record to teh card and let it fil itself up, taht you only have about 12hrs of actual record time on it. PLEASE do this for me/all of us, so we can see if this is an isolated incident or if its widespread and they have to do a firmware fix

TIA,
Bean

[boojum]

Bean (AKA Dr. Science)  -   

OK, I will try recording FLAC to my CF.  I have a 4GB card: four hours of WAV and s/b eight hours of FLAC.  I will xfer off the flanked omnis set and run the recorder to the CF and let you, and the world of science, know.

Cheers

[orechall]

ran two shows with the new firmware and no issues at all...but I still record to wav. 

[dennisrtyler]

ran two shows with the new firmware and no issues at all...but I still record to wav. 

::cough:: reset ::cough::

[F.O.Bean]

OK, after running tests on my 8GB CF Card writing to FLAC, I BARELY got over 9hrs of actual recording, while the counter on the cf card once the cf card is formatted reads 16hrs of recording. I think a letter to SD is in order........So what my tests have shown me is this: recording to FLAC is ABSOLUTELY USELESS AT THE MOMENT. I BARELY got better recording times than I do writing to WAV. The 50% space reduction is NOWHERE NEAR accurate Liek I said, I BARELY got 9-10hrs of recording writing to FLAC on my 8GB CF Card. I SHOULD HAVE gotten enar 16hrs recording to FLAC on my 8GB CF Card.

Also, another HUGE DOWNFALL recording to FLAC is battery drain. I had a FULLY CHARGED 6000mah 722 battery when i ran my last test writing FLAC to my 8GB CF Card, and I ONLY GOT 2hrs and 40mins on the card written because my battery died after ONLY 2hrs 40mins That is FREAKIN HORRIBLE IMO. I NORMALLY get about 7hrs SAFELY when writing WAV to JUST my 8GB CF Card. So I saved next to ZERO recording space recording to FLAC and I DRAINED my 6000mah battery only 2hrs 40mins. DEFINITELY not wortyh it recording to FLAC on the 7-series ANYTIME SOON.

Has ANYONE besides myself and Boojum run any tests to see if this is JUST on my end, or if SD has ALOT of work to do with their on-the-fly flac encoding/writing as a realistic option? Like I have said previously, I could really care less if SD ever gets the flac recording bugs worked out, because my 722 has been ROCK SOLID and 100% RELIABLE while recording WAV to both my 8GB CF Card+INHDD, so I am a HAPPY TAPIR just having it write WAVS reliably to my cf card/inhdd. It would be sweet if they could wrinkle out the flac bugs so if you needed that extra 50% reduction in record space in a pinch, it would be there, but I am not going to whine and cry about it, thats for sure. I simply will buck up and get another CF Card, and since theyre SOOOO cheap nowadays, then that is def the option we will have to go with our 7-series. I just wanted to run these tests to see if flac recording was there for me if/when I needed it. IM VERY GLAD I ran these tests first, because if I went to use the flac recording option in a pinch and got SCREWED because it simply doesnt save 50% of your space, not to mention the HUGE battery drain it has on the batteries, I would have been PISSED. I not only wouldnt have gotten the whole show show due to running out of cf card space recording in FLAC, I would also have been BUMMED when my battery ran out after only 2.5hrs of recording So for that reason alone, Im glad I ran those tests. I am not done yet either. I will continue to do these flac tests until i go thru ALL (4) of my 722 batteries and get consistent results TWICE with every battery I am thorough to say the least

I would be HAPPY to hear from anyone else recording to FLAC and to hear their test results to see if this is an isolated incident with my 722, or if this is a widespread problem and if SD should be notified

Bean

[JD]

OK, after running tests on my 8GB CF Card writing to FLAC, I BARELY got over 9hrs of actual recording, while the counter on the cf card once the cf card is formatted reads 16hrs of recording. I think a letter to SD is in order........

A little over 1 hour a GB. That doesn't seem right. That's close to the same size as a 24/48 wav file not?
I would have thought Flac would give you more run time then that.

[boojum]

OK, after running tests on my 8GB CF Card writing to FLAC, I BARELY got over 9hrs of actual recording, while the counter on the cf card once the cf card is formatted reads 16hrs of recording. I think a letter to SD is in order........

Strange.  I am going to run my on the 4GB CF tonight.  I would think I would get twice the amount of recorded time for the same bit depth/sampling rate as WAV.  I will try it at 16/44.1 for the first test and then try it at 24/48. 

L8R

[F.O.Bean]

OK, after running tests on my 8GB CF Card writing to FLAC, I BARELY got over 9hrs of actual recording, while the counter on the cf card once the cf card is formatted reads 16hrs of recording. I think a letter to SD is in order........

A little over 1 hour a GB. That doesn't seem right. That's close to the same size as a 24/48 wav file not?
I would have thought Flac would give you more run time then that.

EXACTLY, I BARELY got more record time recording in FLAC than I do recording in WAV.

OK, after running tests on my 8GB CF Card writing to FLAC, I BARELY got over 9hrs of actual recording, while the counter on the cf card once the cf card is formatted reads 16hrs of recording. I think a letter to SD is in order........

Strange.  I am going to run my on the 4GB CF tonight.  I would think I would get twice the amount of recorded time for the same bit depth/sampling rate as WAV.  I will try it at 16/44.1 for the first test and then try it at 24/48. 

L8R

Thats what I thought too. Boy was I wrong

Also, the extra battery drain recording to FLAC is DEFINITELY not worth it. I ONLY GOT 2hrs 40mins recording in FLAC to my 8GB CF Card on a FULLY CHARGED 6000mah 722 battery. That is HORRIBLE IMO. I can normally get about 7hrs SAFELY on my 8GB CF Card with a fully charged 6000mah battery. Thats saves me about 2hrs per 6000mah battery writing to JUST my 8GB CF Card compared to writing to JUST the INHDD or BOTH the CF Card/INHDD. Just another reason why CF Cards KICK MUCHO ASS No moving parts is awesome!  When you put the INHDD in the picture AT ALL and record to the INHDD in any way/shape/form/config, you lose battery power, and the battery drain is worse. I couldnt believe I could save 2 whole hrs on each 6000mah battery when writing to JUST the CF Card, instead of writing to JUST the INHDD or both the CF Card/INHDD. I think recording to WAV is the best bet right at the moment, until SD fixes the bugs associated with FLAC recording. Hell, I have had such a bad taste left in my mouth just from my FLAC recording tests, that I will simply spend the extra $100 bucks and just get an extra 16GB CF Card and just stick with recording to WAV I actually dont care if SD even fixes the FLAC bugs, because I will continue to record to WAV from here on out regardless It would be nice if SD did get the FLAC recording under control and we could actually see a 50% space reduction recording to FLAC, just for those pinches when you need that extra recording time, but if the HUGE battery drain consists while recording to FLAC, then I dont EVER see myself recording to FLAC again NUF SAID!!!

[JD]

Can you choose the level of encoding(compression), like on FLAC frontend?
If so, maybe the default setting is at the lowest level of compression?

 

[F.O.Bean]

Can you choose the level of encoding(compression), like on FLAC frontend?
If so, maybe the default setting is at the lowest level of compression?

 

not to my knowledge, but thats a GREAT thought. I didnt even think of that at all. it never even crossed my mind. I know you CAN choose the mp2/mp3 encoding bitrates, but there is only ONE FLAC option in the menu

[boojum]

Bean et al -

I set my 722 running last night at 16/44.1 FLAC and it is showing 10+ hours to a 4GB CF as of now.  I am running on wall current so I am not testing battery life.  One test at a time.  I will let you know at what size this puppy stops recording.  So far, so good.

L8R 

[F.O.Bean]

Bean et al -

I set my 722 running last night at 16/44.1 FLAC and it is showing 10+ hours to a 4GB CF as of now.  I am running on wall current so I am not testing battery life.  One test at a time.  I will let you know at what size this puppy stops recording.  So far, so good.

L8R 

screw 16/44 time recordings, we want to know 24-bit recording times

[Crumbo]

can you record wav to the hdd and flac to the cf card?

[boojum]

can you record wav to the hdd and flac to the cf card?

That would be nice, but the file type selection from the menu does not allow the medium(s) to have separate formats.  If there is a way, I cannot figure out how to do it.  Anyone???   

[scb]

even the creator of flac wouldn't claim 50% compression ratio with 24 bit material...is SD claiming it should be 50%?

[F.O.Bean]

can you record wav to the hdd and flac to the cf card?

DEFINITELY NO. You can ONLY record to ONE recording medium while recording to flac too. You HAVE TO choose EITHER CF Card OR INHDD OR EXHDD. When recording to WAV, you can write to all 3 mediums simultaneously. I ALWAYS write to BOTH the CF Card+INHDD for total redundancy And if I want/need to save some battery power, I write to JUST the 8GB CF Card. That saves me ABOUT 2 hrs per 6000mah battery compared to writing to the INHDD or the INHDD+CF Card

And liek I emntioned folks, the battery drain while recording to FLAC was UNREAL. My 6000mah battery only lasted about 2hrs 40mins recording to FLAC on my CF Card. I can only imagine what the battery drain would have been if I wrote to the INHDD and not the cf card So unless you have AC power and want to save MAYBE an hr per 8GB CF Card, Id STAY AWAY from recording to FLAC ANYTIME SOON I'll just buck up and buy an extra 16GB CF Card for $110.00/Shipped from A-Data and continue writing WAVS

[F.O.Bean]

even the creator of flac wouldn't claim 50% compression ratio with 24 bit material...is SD claiming it should be 50%?

well then, why does my freshly formatted 8GB CF Card counter read 16hrs before I start writing to it then? That would lead me and everyone else to believe that the FLAC compression would be 50% since the 16hrs is DOUBLE the size of the card at 24/48 I know that usually FLAC encoding to 24-bit files yields about a 30% reduction, whereas 16-bit files MIGHT see about a 50% reduction in size, but I didnt even see NEARLY that when I ran my tests. I say about a 10% reduction IF THAT and AT MOST And FWIW, I ran my tests at 24/48 like I normally would record in the field I would say that SD has some explaining and working to do