Topic: Copying DAT-tapes into PC as WAV, and keeping the index no.

[SwedishBirdSoundRecordist]

Hallo Guys
I stumbled onto this forum while searching the web for “transferring DAT start IDs”. Sorry for writing such a long intro, but I’m in desperate need for some help on this matter…

I have a collection of >>1000 DATs (x 120 mins) of the vocalizations of more than 2000 species of birds (and many mammals, insects, frogs and toads as well) from mainly Europe, Asia and N. Africa (+ a few hundred recordings from USA & Canada as well). As far as I recon its must be one of the largest private wildlife sound-recording archives in the world. All recordings are 48 kHz and 16 bit. They are recorded mainly with a Sony TCD-D10 Pro DAT, and all recordings are indexed (= start IDs have been “renumbered” on the DATs) and catalogued in a database, with info on species, quality, type of voc., when and where, equipment and settings etc. etc. In that sense, the collection is well curated – the problem is how to transfer the recordings into my PC with (all) necessary sub-codes.

Since 2007 I have recorded with a Sound Devices 722, and hence with a quick and easy transfer of WAV–files directly into my PC. After so many years of collecting I’m now in the process of starting to publish. The problem is how to get my DAT-recordings into my computer for easy handling

I have tried transferring the DAT tapes (either from Sony TCD-D10 pro or the pro studio-machines Sony PCM 2800 or PCM-R500 – I bought the latter two second hand just for this purpose) in real time as WAV files into PC via a LynxONE PCI sound-card (and software); into CD-discs in a HHB CDR830; or into a SD 722. Transferring the sounds from DAT to WAV-files is really no problem – although there are pros and cons with all methods mentioned above. The MAIN PROBLEM is that I haven’t succeeded in transferring the start index for every single recording on the DAT tapes. My DAT tapes include approx. 70–110 indexed recordings each, and single recordings are often 1–5 minutes long. What I get is a single long recording of the entire DAT-cassette WITHOUT indexes.

I get a headache just by thinking of going through such long recordings and manually cutting and renaming the respective recordings – in total more or less 100.000 index. I will be “seven feet under” before it is done…

In theory the HHB CDR830 recognize DAT- start IDs, but my machine makes a new track out of roughly every 7-10 DAT start IDs. Since I’m not a technician I can’t figure out why – and neither could the Swedish HHB support! Other drawbacks by copying to CD are that the originally 48 kHz files are converted to 44.1kHz (but that’s OK given the circumstances), and that every 120 min DAT-tape needs to be copied onto several CDs – making the copying process much less smooth.

So all in all, I’m stuck, and in desperate need for some good advice… Could someone please help me out. Hardware, software or whatever… just in order to make it possible to copy a DAT-tape into WAV-files and keeping the start index automatically! I’m of course willing to spend some bucks on getting this done… Any ideas…?

/ Chris M, Stockholm, Sweden

[RemotelyLocated]

Wow, great archiving question. It almost seems as what you'd want is a long, continuous flle (that represents the entire tape) but with search capability or at least "taggable" indices ... think of a soundcloud.com file and how users can add tags to what's playing at any point.

So see if posting to soundcloud.com or similar would work for you. You could add the index points yourself and (hopefully?) disable others from doing the same? As for searching however, I dunno.

Another option is youtube.com --- you may have noticed it's possible to post a long (or longish?) file but add indices to it as clickable links. I've seen entire albums posted there with links for each song. The user just clicks the link and the "video" timeline skips right to that spot. Dunno what the time limits for "video" are there, however. And unlike soundcloud.com, YouTube's gonna squash the audio down lossy.


But for something you control, ie. a computer file of your own, you'll be in the world of metadata, and dependent upon whatever database app you use. For example, iTunes is truly a database app, NOT "a music app" per se, and others that use metadata are, too. In other words there'll be a "comments" or "lyrics" section where you can jot notes that say at 2'34" it's a pileated woodpecker for example.

Some files can embed metadata; make sure you take advantage of that and that the database app doesn't ruin it. Lossy files such as MP3 and AAC can, and lossless files such as AIFF and WAV (Broadcast Wave ONLY, not the "regular" kind of WAV file!) ... and losslessly-compressed ALAC/FLAC can, too.

* It's important to test a file you create in one app played back in another to verify the metadata is "still there" and/or being read by the second app. *

[runonce]

I think...to pull this off - you will need a PC DAT Drive...and Dat2Wav

http://web.ncf.ca/aa571/docs/dat2wav.txt

Older software - and command line too - but it might do exactly what you want.

Not sure there are any GUI based programs that are based on this...

[H₂O]

DAT2WAV will create new WAV files at every "start ID" - This can be good if the tape is clean but if you have a tape with errors then it can think there are startID's where they do not exist  - I would think though you will run into these issues regardless of the setup you use

DAT2WAV does support error correction which works better then many decks but not as good as the high end PCM-7040 for example.

If you go the DAT2WAV route you need a Windows XP machine, a Sony SDT-9000 DDS drive (Go with these over the other drives as they read tapes better then the Connor DDS1 and DDS2 drives) and an Adaptec SCSI card (other SCSI cards may work but ASPI (the SCSI API DAT2WAV uses) was developed by Adaptec)

I have found to do a larger number of xfers you will need a few options - I do the following:

1. DAT2WAV all tapes and place the tapes with errors in a seperate stack - I keep the error logs and FLAC the WAVE files - I also take pics of each tape and place i the directory with the WAV and error file
2. XFER tapes with higher errors (verify based on the logs and WAVE files) using my PCM-7040  - this is a Pro machine and support AES/EBU output only so I am pretty sure StartID's, etc are lost
3. If the tape is 12bit/32Khz I xfer using a Panasonic SV-4100 (and or a PCM R700)


 

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

Thinking outside the box...  Maybe the way to approach this is to create CUE sheets???

It would be a need project to make/write a CUE Sheet Generator, where you could input the start point of a particular WAV file (xxx:xx:xx), input the rest of the Track Marks (and track names???), and then have it save to a CUE Sheet.  Maybe some kind of XL Spreadsheet???  That way said archivist could input his (assumed already written) catalog for each DAT.  And once the Transfer has been done, he could set the start point in the Generator and have it adjust all the timings accordingly.  Then just apply the CUE Sheet to each Transfer...

I have to think that the DAT Start IDs aren't as "accurate" as Track Marks (say in CDWAVE), but in this case it may not really make a difference... 

Just a thought...

Terry

[SwedishBirdSoundRecordist]

Thank you very much indeed for all positive replies and good tips. Your help and response is much appreciated!!

After rethinking your suggestions and checking up on some of the links - I have decided to go with the following line:
my DAT-audio-cassettes >> Sony SDT-9000 tape drive >> DAT2WAV software (Computall Services) >> Adaptec SCSI card >> older PC with Windows XP.

Although this seems to be the best solution for my purposes, especially since DAT2WAV software is said to create new WAV files at every DAT "start-ID", and since the Sony 9000 drive seems to be the most reliable drive(!?) - and best of all - it works in 4x the original DAT-speed. Still, I have a lot of queastion marks? From what is told on the net there appears to be A LOT of frustrating problems and mishaps with the DDS line of Xfer.

Anyway my plan will be to:
1. Buy a refurbished Sony SDT-9000 on the internet from USA (not a single used one found at any European vendors or the European part of e-bay!); approx $150-200 + pp+import tax.
2. Buy a second hand PC working under Windows XP.
3. Download the free DAT2WAV software from Computall Services homepage (still working) .
4. Buy a new(?)/old second hand(?) Adaptec SCSI card (what model?, 32 or 64 bit?) and install it in a free slot of the PC
5. Update any neccessary firmvares/drives for the Windows XP PC (?) and for the Sony SDT-9000 (?).
6. ... ... Everything will work smoothly and in approx. 500 working hours my 1000 DAT:s (x120 min) and the their audio content are Xferred as approx. 100.000 separate WAV files into the harddisk of my computor.

Member "H₂O" suggested I needed ... an Adaptec SCSI card (other SCSI cards may work but ASPI (the SCSI API DAT2WAV uses) was developed by Adaptec) ..., but when reading on the WAV2DAT-homepage I get the impreesion they are talking about upgrading the Windows ASPI drivers (software?) to better support third party hardware and software. I'm not a technician and I'm definately NOT a comuter-wiz, so please... could someone sort this out for me in simple words?

If I still need a separate Adaptec SCSI card -- what model should I use? Are the ones that are sold today by Adaptec www.adaptec.com working with  older Windows XP PCs? Or do I need to find an old and secondhand card on e-bay? If so, what model? What model of Adaptec SCSI card do you use "H₂O" ?

The WAV2DAT-homepage suggest that if the SDT-9000 has firmware  version 1.11 or 1.13 you are likely all set, otherwise you have to get the audio firmvare for the drive. As far as I understand you can still downlod the needed firmware from Sony's homepage. BUT, when bying refurbished drives on the internet how do I know I get the 1.11 or 1.13 version. Is it printed on the ID-label on the drives (hence, I merely ask the seller to check it out before shipping?)?

Regarding the drives, several sources are positive in stating that earlier Sony SDT drives than 9000 do NOT work fo audio transfer, but it seems that no one have been testing if later models like e.g. SDT-10000 or SDT-11000 work for audio (the later ones are DDS4 drives and the 9000 a DDS3 -- I don't know if that matters???). The Pro's with the 10000 and 11000 are that they (according to specs) Xfrer your audio at a mich higher speed -- 1GB in less than 4 min, compared to 7 min in 9000. Any knowledge about this in the group?

Chris M, Stockholm, Sweden