Topic: SP-CMC-9 > SP-SPSB-11 > Edirol R-09HR

[welshylad]

Hey guys, just after a few pointers on how to record with this set up?... What bass roll-off etc to use

I've heard other recordings with the same set up and mine are nowhere as near as good... Are they just edited post recording to make them better?

The last couple of recordings I've done sound like the band [Beady Eye]  are pretty far away even though I was about 2 meters from the PA..

There doesnt seem to be any "kick" in my recordings, they're quite flat to be honest

Any pointers would be appreciated

Thanks very much

[darktrain]

DO NOT USE ANY BASS ROLL OFF, that is the easiest thing to edit if you have to later, sounds like u are killing your bass with the roll off

[willndmb]

I always used a small amount of roll off but that was personal pref
I wouldn't go above like 96 or whatever the setting is though because like Robb said you can do it later if need be
Are you also going line in?

[earmonger]

Those are cardioid mics,  which means they need to be pointed directly at the sound source. If they are off-angle--like clipped to your lapel, pointing toward you rather than the speakers--they are going to sound distant.

But that's not the big problem.

You don't need bass rolloff at all with those mics. They don't pick up bass.

In fact I don't understand how SoundPros can sell them as music mics. They are lapel mics for speech amplification as the AT site makes clear.

Here are the specs, easier to get to than on the AT site:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/352192-REG/Audio_Technica_AT898_AT898_Cardioid_Condenser_Lavalier.html

The same specs are posted as one of the SoundPro reviews.

Note that frequency response is 200-15,000 Hz.  Your ears are 20-20,00 Hz.   That is a huge difference. The note an orchestra tunes to is A above middle C, or  A440--440 Hz. Every octave doubles the frequency. So you are getting a little more than one octave below the middle of the piano as your lowest note. The lowest note on a piano is 27.5 Hz and live music shakes your body with even lower tones.  (The upper end is less of a big deal since 15,000-20,000 is only a difference of a few very high overtones.) It probably sounds pretty tinny.

I have used a lot of SoundPros stuff over the years and generally like them, but this doesn't make sense to me. 

Are you sure your friends are using the exact same mics? Because I don't understand how they are getting any kind of full-bodied sound.  If you just got the mics from SoundPros, I'd ask them about an exchange for something more music-friendly.

[bombdiggity]

I don't know the CMC-9 and can't say I've heard many things recorded with them, but SP's site says in the description of these mics that : "They have a gentle bass roll off." 

So if you are using additional roll off in the battery box and your recordings seem weak that would contribute. 

Most of the small ATs are a little bright.  I find that useful in a large hall setting or reverberant room but due to that you shouldn't need any roll off in the batt box.  I always ran my batt box flat before I upgraded to a Tinybox preamp. 

An FFT filter applied in editing allows you to control the roll off based on what you actually recorded 

EDIT:  Based on the specs those mics are not really useful for recording music.  I'm surprised they sell them (if they still do).  The specs are missing for these on their site. 

There are quite a few good mics available from them but as noted above I don't think these are one of those.  With these you're missing lows and highs that provide a fully rounded sound. 

[welshylad]

Thanks for the replys guys, I've been thinking of selling them tbh.. I do use another mic that just plugs straight in to the Edirol, its much easier than having a battery box.

Do you recommend any other mics I could get? Preferably that plug straight in to the recorder

I always record rock shows (Beady Eye, Stereophonics etc etc)

Thanks again

[bombdiggity]

If the shows are loud you probably need the battery box to record them appropriately.  For example the maximum level your current mics can stand plugged in directly is 115 dB, but with power (the specs say phantom but I assume that holds for a battery box) that goes up to 135 dB. 

In addition as noted above with power you should be able to use the line input section of your recorder which is far superior to the mic input (which will have the noise/issues of a cheap built in pre-amp). 

I found in recording really quiet acoustic/unamplified shows that the battery box did not provide a high enough output for me to go line in so moved to a better full pre-amp.  YMMV. 

I'd at least keep the battery box and run it flat. 

Mics are a matter of taste and budget. 

SP offers more appropriate mics.  I'd think:

CMC-25 (best IMO)
CMC-2
CMC-26

You mention your friends get better results so you might want to check what they use. 

There are other compact options like Church and regular AT's at the low end of the price scale....  Things in the yard sale here...  I don't think I know any European manufacturers at the low end, though there is one in the UK I've seen mentioned but don't know how the results are.  Team UK on this board seem a cooperative lot.  They may have some insights (or gear they might loan/sell). 

[Marshall7]

You want a good deal on a pair of excellent stealth mics, buy the AT853's Robb (darktrain) is selling in the Yard Sale. 

[earmonger]

Agreed that you should keep the battery box.

Is there a reason you are sticking to cardioids?

I prefer omnis because to me they have a more natural sound and are more forgiving. Cardioids need to be pointed at the sound source, so they may be good in a fixed position, on a mic stand, where they'll shut out audience noise behind them. But if you are clipping the mics to yourself, and not standing precisely still at the right angle, you'll get volume variations you don't want.

The other problem with relatively inexpensive cardioids is lack of bass. The CMC-25 go down to 30 Hz--where if you are listening down there, you'll hear bass lines that suddenly seem to jump an octave because the mic isn't picking up the tone, just its overtone. CMC-26, 40 Hz, worse. CMC-2, 50Hz. Those would bother me. The bass isn't rolled off, where you could restore it if you wanted. It's not there.

Whereas you can get inexpensive omnis that go down to 20Hz. For many years I happily used the SoundPros BMC-2. I've lately moved on up to Church Audio CA-14, but the BMC-2 is still a good place to start. If you're using them regularly, buy the 3-year warranty because you can get them replaced. If you can be patient, keep an eye on the Sound Pros site--he sometimes cuts the BMC-2 price in half. And if you can be really patient, order some Church Audio omnis.

[welshylad]

Again, thanks for the replys.

I don't really want to use anyone out of the UK to buy from really as when I bought from SP I was ripped off by the customs tax (or whatever its called)

Yes I've always used the line in while recording, I think it might be the problem with not facing them to the PA.. Usually I clip them on lapels or my shirt facing upwards. I'm far from a pro so I dunno all the ins and outs of recordings, especially all these frequency's etc...

As I've said though I know of recordings where people have used the exact set up I have and have had MUCH better results (recording the same band), but obviously in a different venue. So maybe its just editing they do after the show.

The only editing I do is usually increase the volume a bit and add bass, is there any other basic pointers I should use when editing?
I use Sound Forge 10

Thanks

[anr]

I have a pair of BMC-2-RA I use as a backup.  I highly recommend them as budget mics for anyone.  They are $59 at the moment, including clips and windscreens, which is a steal given the exchange rate.  Go on, be naughty!  Customs may get you, but SP won't rip you off on postage. 

[LikeASong]

Substract one unit from your mics' model and you get one of the best cheap mics I've tried: CMC-8. Great for the money, will stand high SPLs, will work plugged straight to your Edirol, and they are small.