Topic: applause volume for quiet show

[junkyardt]

Got a volume problem with a recent tape. The show was extremely quiet and I was all the way in the back of the venue, so unfortunately the signal of the applause is much stronger than the signal of the music. So as it is (raw) the music is very quiet and the applause is moderately loud. I amplified the whole thing 10db and that makes the music more listenable but the applause becomes ear-splitting. I tried normalize but that doesnt seem to work within a single file. Is there anything I can do? Do I have to split the show into separate tracks of applause and non-applause and normalize those? But there are many points where there is loud applause for spurts of time during songs, over top the music. So I'm not sure how well that would work. Any thoughts?

[Dede2002]

Got a volume problem with a recent tape. The show was extremely quiet and I was all the way in the back of the venue, so unfortunately the signal of the applause is much stronger than the signal of the music. So as it is (raw) the music is very quiet and the applause is moderately loud. I amplified the whole thing 10db and that makes the music more listenable but the applause becomes ear-splitting. I tried normalize but that doesnt seem to work within a single file. Is there anything I can do? Do I have to split the show into separate tracks of applause and non-applause and normalize those? But there are many points where there is loud applause for spurts of time during songs, over top the music. So I'm not sure how well that would work. Any thoughts?

Hello,

That's what I do. I' not telling that this is the wright or the best way, just how I do. Works for me.
All you have to do select ( on your waveform) the parts where the applause is ruin the music and use some compression. Light compression will do just fine. Doing so you can control the applause to music ratio to keep it natural.
Hope that helps. But I'm sure qualified TS members will help you with more details ( if needed).

[vanark]

I've had good success using an envelope tool to tame the in between song applause.  If you say what software you are using, perhaps someone can give you some help if you can't figure it out.  I've used Audacity.

[Brian Skalinder]

I've used compression and / or a volume envelope to reduce the thunderous applause and bring it down to, or below, the level of the music.  If the applause is during music, I've found it sounds best bringing the applause down to the level of the music, but not below.  Search the Computer Recording forum for keywords:  volume envelope, compression, and maybe whatever software you use to see if anyone has specific comments on how to accomplish these tasks with your s/w.

[easy jim]

You could also use a hard limiter, setting the threshold by finding the loudest musical peak, and using the fastest attack and release settings.  Once you find the loudest musical peak (say at -10dBFS, for instance), set the threshold at - or just above - that peak: -10dB.  Then, you can add that much make up gain after the limiter squashes the peaks from the applause that rise above -10dBFS.

A 'volume envelope,' to my understanding, does that exact same thing, but saves a few processing steps actually dialing in compressor/limiter settings other than the threshold (which would be preset as far as attack/release and ratio - if the 'volume envelope' process compresses at some high compression ratio like 20:1 or 40:1 instead of limiter ratios like 100:1 or infinity:1)

[mr qpl]

another good suggestion is to tape to the music, not the applause volume, the applause will clip heavily and it can either be reduced via the envelope method, I suggest a 20- 40% to 100% U curve, or using the clip reduction functions ( these are per Cool Edit)

good luck!!

[Brian Skalinder]

another good suggestion is to tape to the music, not the applause volume, the applause will clip heavily and it can either be reduced via the envelope method, I suggest a 20- 40% to 100% U curve, or using the clip reduction functions ( these are per Cool Edit)

I've done this before, setting levels for the music and not applause.  Sometimes it worked well, sometimes it didn't.  If it was just clapping that clipped, the results usually didn't sound too bad.  But if a hoot or holler caused the clipping, it sounded really nasty and was unrecoverable.

[mr qpl]

another good suggestion is to tape to the music, not the applause volume, the applause will clip heavily and it can either be reduced via the envelope method, I suggest a 20- 40% to 100% U curve, or using the clip reduction functions ( these are per Cool Edit)

I've done this before, setting levels for the music and not applause.  Sometimes it worked well, sometimes it didn't.  If it was just clapping that clipped, the results usually didn't sound too bad.  But if a hoot or holler caused the clipping, it sounded really nasty and was unrecoverable.

found the clip reduction works EXCELLENT if you record without using the dc offset.  YMMV

[mr qpl]

well, i'm not sure what you mean by taping to the music, it was a really quiet show. i ran my levels maxed out at 10 for both sources and still got only about 1/8 to 1/4 of the way up the meter at any point during the music. i couldnt have gone any higher.

I wasn't sure that was what you'd done. Max levels and still quiet means you apparently need a pre

[Brian Skalinder]

I've done this before, setting levels for the music and not applause.  Sometimes it worked well, sometimes it didn't.  If it was just clapping that clipped, the results usually didn't sound too bad.  But if a hoot or holler caused the clipping, it sounded really nasty and was unrecoverable.

found the clip reduction works EXCELLENT if you record without using the dc offset.  YMMV

My mileage definitely varied!    The gear I've used did not have DC offest, and the clipping from hooting and hollering was still unrecoverable.  Haven't done it since.  :shrugs:

[dank]

ha!  I just started another thread asking the same question about this ame Tom Waits show. 

[Liquid Drum]

I use CoolEdit Pro to master and use Hard Limiting to reduce peaks. Just highlight the bits that need lowering and then lower them to a level thats more reasonable (basically you limit the loudness of those peaks).

[Dede2002]

I use CoolEdit Pro to master and use Hard Limiting to reduce peaks. Just highlight the bits that need lowering and then lower them to a level thats more reasonable (basically you limit the loudness of those peaks).

Curious: is there a Hard Limiting feature on Audacity or Sound Studio? 
Thanks in advance,

Sergio

[T.J.]

You could also use a hard limiter, setting the threshold by finding the loudest musical peak, and using the fastest attack and release settings.  Once you find the loudest musical peak (say at -10dBFS, for instance), set the threshold at - or just above - that peak: -10dB.  Then, you can add that much make up gain after the limiter squashes the peaks from the applause that rise above -10dBFS.

hmm, this sounds like something i would like to try. i guess you would apply the hard limiter to the entire file? so you use the fastest attack and release setting to find the loudest musical peak? if not, how can you determine the loudest musical peak fairly easy (without listening the entire file and guesstimating)

sorry for the pseudo hijack

[Brian Skalinder]

i guess you would apply the hard limiter to the entire file? so you use the fastest attack and release setting to find the loudest musical peak? if not, how can you determine the loudest musical peak fairly easy (without listening the entire file and guesstimating)

You could apply to whole file, or only to specific areas.  You have to find the loudest musical peak manually, if the applause are louder than the music.  I just eyeball it, doesn't take long at all.

IME, hard limiting can deliver unpleasant results in some cases.  I far prefer lighter compression and / or a volume envelope, though both are a bit more effort.