Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: Craig T on April 21, 2003, 08:40:04 AM
-
Doug Oade was nice enough to lend me a "presence/clarity" mod UA5 to compare with the "warm" mod I've been running for some time. Definitely a different sound - not as much mid-bass, brighter highs, overall a "tighter" sound, IMO. I'm still not sure which one I prefer - I hope to run it a few more times before returning it.
I'll be happy to trade/b&p some discs of the show. 16/44.1 SHN or 24/48 FLAC.
Will Bernard & Motherbug
April 17, 2003
North-by-Northwest - Philadelphia, PA
Source: ADK A51TL (m/s, on stage)> Oade mod UA5 (set 1: "warm", set 2: "presence/clarity")> Fujitsu Lifebook S6110 (winXP, SF5.0, 24bit/48k)
Sound Forge 5.0: m/s>stereo, 24/48>16/44.1
-
hey craig keep us informed on what you find out...i'm still trying to decide if i should pick on of these up or keep my mp-2 and get a AD-20....and if i get a ua-5 should get the clarity or warm mod ???
btw i finally got someone to track out that moe. show for me so i'll be sending those disc out to you this week....sorry for the delay!
-Justin
-
MP2 + AD-20 = 2 mics preamps. ;)
-
lol...i meant adc-20.
-justin
-
I think what you will prefer will depend highly upon your playback rig.. That's one thing I've learned as of late; people's recommendations of what sounds "better" to them are influenced heavily by the colorations (or lack thereof) imposed by their playback rigs.
Case in point, my playback rig is already tight, focused, very extended highs, and a pinpoint imager. I prefer running DIN with my XY's against the grain of the Oade folks who specifically told me XY was the best to run with those mics; they claim smearing of the highs and loss of tautness in the bass when running anything but XY. Not on my playback rig!
I'm a relative newbie in the taping world (<3 years experience) but I'm learning that there are more ways to tailor your sound to your playback rig than I ever imagined! Mics, pres, a to d's... LOL as if I didn't have enough tweeking on the playback rig to do :D
Can you explain differences in imaging and soundstaging between the two units? I was told by the Oade folks the wmod UA5 gives up some in the highs, and had a bit more midrange coloration... But the soundstaging and imaging were much better than the pmod.. Thoughts?
-
A few more:
a one disc sampler of Big Wu 4/23/03
ADK A51TL (split omnis)> UA5
tracks 1-3: "warm" mod
tracks 4-7: "presence" mod
Base3 (space jazz trio from Philly) 4/21/03
Neumann tlm170 (m/s, stage lip)> UA5
set 1: "wam"
set 2: "presence"
-
Any thoughts about comments about soundstaging differences between the two units? Can you explain "tighter" sound? Or are you leaving it up to us to decide ;)
-
Any thoughts about comments about soundstaging differences between the two units?
So far I have not noticed any soundstaging/imaging differences. The first two recordings were both done on stage, so imaging is excellent on both. I just did that Big Wu show last night with the split omnis fob and haven't really listened to it much.
Can you explain "tighter" sound? Or are you leaving it up to us to decide ;)
You'd certainly be better off hearing for yourself and making your own decision. Sound is a very difficult thing to describe in words, especially when your talking about subtile details.
The warm mod is warm. It has a noticeable mid-bass to mid-range bloom which some may find very pleasing. The low end is full and punchy - kick drums have that 'thump' you can hear and feel.
The presence mod is fast and detailed. Not as much low end, but certainly enough, and it is very well controlled. More dynamic (the difference between loud and soft seems greater) - not as mellow sounding as the warm mod, drums have a snap to them, cymball crashes are more up front, kick drums come through with plenty of impact, just not as thumping. Sounds seem to have sharper edges between them - more detail than the warm mod.
Where the warm mod shines is its silky smooth top to bottom sound, nothing really jumps out, and I don't get annoyed by harsh high end or overcoloration of the sound. I like the detail of the presence mod, but the high end definitely jumps out at me a bit. I haven't spent a long time listening to any of the presence mod recordings, so I'm not sure I wouldn't get digititus/audio fatigue keeping me from sitting through a whole set or show.
-
+T man for the great description! :)
The pmod sounds like it's definitely not my cup of tea... my playback rig is already massively resolving of detail, and ruthless with topend-tilted recordings. I look for that "smooth top to bottom" that you describe hearing from the wmod... (I like what I hear, too, BTW)
Seriously good description, Craig. I can well see why some would very much prefer the pmod. I'm a huge analog fan, so that's not the sound I really enjoy...
+ more T for offering up a B&P :)
-
So, just for curiosity's sake, what exactly, mechanically speaking, are the differences? What new parts are added to disable the internal pre etc?
Thanks
Daryan
-
I don't believe Oade Bros. disables the internal pre; I was told they simply replaced some of the parts in the stock pre with hand-selected parts. I can't remember exactly which ones, tho :)
-
this is straight from Oade's site:
the warm mod:
The second mod adds an analog input rebuild to the first mod. This replaces the input capacitors, which are SMD electrolytic ( higher distortion and noise) with SMD film caps ( lower distortion and noise) as well as the input Op Amps. We use very high grade, very low noise Op Amps for this, chosen by ear for a natural and pleasing sound. This mod gives the UA5 a warmer sound, with better depth and high frequency character
the presence mod:
A second "flavor" is available as a "presence" MOD, chosen by ear for a maximum clarity and detail. This mod gives the UA5 a more "up front" sound, with better presence and high frequency detail. Both MODs disable the 1/4" inputs on the front panel, leaving the front panel XLR's and rear panel RCA inputs intact.
-
how much does each oade mod cost?
-
warm mod is $500 and presence mod is $550
-justin
-
wow, those are expensive mod's
-
wow, those are expensive mod's
I think those costs include:
[a] the UA5 itself
digi-out mod
[c] either pre mod
At the very list, the $500/$550 includes [a] and [c]. BUT...this is just what I've gathered from past posts, I'm sure someone who has one will confirm or deny.
-
Not really. The digi mod makes the UA5 $375, so that means the wmod is $125 and the pmod $175.
Fairly cheap, IMO.
-
Brian is correct, +T for his more thorough explanation ;D
-
That's gotta include the price of buying the actual stock unit from Oade as well.
-JB
-
Has anyone heard Craig T's comp.?? If so, tell us what you think if you do not mind!
Daryan
-
It's on the way to my office, I should have it mid next week... I'm going to listen to it in full 24 bit glory, so I should be able to form a good set of opinions soon!
Thanks again, CriagT! Your sco & mmw is burned and will be mailed Monday ;D
-
ahhh, good, I thought you where talking $500 for the mod alone, +350 for the unit :o
-
wow, those are expensive mod's
That includes the UA-5.
-Kevin
-
sorry i should have been more clear in my post. the warm mod is $500 that includes the ua-5, digi out mod, and the actual mod to the unit. presence mod is $550 for the ua-5, digi out mod, and presence mod.
hope that helps!
-justin
-
GREAT pricepoint for the product... ;D
bean
-
i guess i'll find out how good the are, i'm orderin my presence mod ua-5 this week ;D woohoo new toys!
-justin
-
YOU ENJOY YOURSELF.... 8)
bean
-
I heard Craig's Big Wu show and on my system, I like the "presence" mod over the "warm" mod. The presence is much more in your face and brighter. My system tends to be a little bassy, so that's probably why this mod sounds better to me. Honestly, I don't hear much more difference between my stock ua5 and the "warm" ua5. There is more detail, but not much to my ears. Again, this is on my already bassy system, so the brighter high end is nice to hear.
I like the "warm" mod better on my headphones, though. ;)
-John
-
Cool! I just got 'em today (Thanks, Craig!!), and I'm planning on settling down this evening for a few hrs. for some serious listening...
-
Sweet, be sure to give a full report!
-
let us know what u think. i'm interested in hearing what everybody thinks about these two units. i can't wait to get mine and try it out!
-j
-
Preliminary results; we're running another longer showdown on Sunday, as one of my taper buds couldn't make it tonight, and a few of my hifi friends had other commitments.
First off, I need to throw a huge shout out for Will Bernard and Motherbug. Holy sh|t these guys were good! Kinda like a movie where you go in expecting nothing, maybe? Dunno, I was way impressed. And whaddya know, they're coming to my hometown (sorta) for Hookahville. I wasn't planning on going, but I might change my mind just to see these guys live!
I have 2 pages of notes to comb through, but both of our impressions were pretty much spot on, so I'll summarize a bit:
warm mod stengths:
1. mids! The mids are lush and gorgeous. Very pleasing. The mids run the show with the wmod
2. soundstaging is king with wmod. Consistently, through every recording, the soundstage was both wider and deeper; but the biggest improvement besides size was placement. Wmod places the performers back a bit; for instance, for the wbm set, everyone was set at or behind the wall behind my speakers, and the main soundstage extended to the outside and behind the speakers. Very very nice. With pmod, this jumped forward a few feet, almost level with the front of the speakers, and collapsed in to the point no main staging info was to the outside of the speaks.
3. highs. Contrary to what I thought, the wmod wasn't rolled off in the highs like I thought. It extended up about the same as the pmod; but the general bulk of the frequency was more mids, so this tamed the highs a bit.
4. coherency. Perhaps because of the soundstaging, but other factors are at work I couldn't put my finger on in this relatively short listening session... But the wmod is just more musically coherent. Everything's "there" with the pmod, but the wmod just sounds more "whole" and you get a better feel of musicians interacting with each other.
wmod negatives:
1. bass. The bass is slightly softened and loses some of it's initial attack; and the decay is a bit extended. The end result is it is "softer" feeling than the pmod.
2. instrumental attack. The wmod softens and slows things a bit, much like a harmonically rich tube amp, so you lose a little bit of attack and the decays hand a bit unnaturally at times. This has the effect of sounding harmonically pleasing, but can remove a bit too much bite at times... In some hifi rigs this could be a killer.
pmod strengths:
1. bass. Pmod bass is much tauter and has more drive. This gives a better rythmic presentation.
2. detail. The pmod pulls more detail than the wmod, this is fairly clear when switching back and forth. The wmod has crowd chatter, but with the pmod you can hear what they're saying more clearly. Inner detail of instrumental parts is more apparent.
3. vocals. The pmod really has better vocal sound. Whether this is accurate or not, I don't know; but the wmod has a more "at the show vocal" feel, the pmod is clearer and you can hear vocals better. If you like bands with lots and lots of indeterminate vocals, this is the one to buy, IMO
pmod negatives:
1. soundstaging. pmod recordings bring everything forward into the room, and much less width to the stage. This brings the musicians closer in an unnatural and somewhat distracting manner.
2. lean mids. pmod really leans out the mids, which IMO tips up the highs. I don't feel that the highs are more extended in frequency, but they just become more prevalent in the sound, so the general feeling is one of more brightness. But the mids are lean and not nearly as enjoyable.
All in all, both of us preferred the wmod so far. It just presented a more coherent, lush, relaxed experience. When the 24/48 wmod will bernard came on, my whole body relaxed into the music. When the pmod set came up, I instantly experienced a less involving, less relaxing picture. I am very interested to hear some more recordings on Sunday, with a few more folks present, to see if a longer listening session presents the same results...
Our sonic chain for the evening:
EMI 2|6 > dCS Delius > McCormack RLD-1 > McCormack DNA-125 > B&W N805 / Velodyne VLF-810
-
thanks for the review! it sounds like boths are are worth the money! i can't wait to hear how the presence mods sound w/ my audix scx-one's ;)
-j
-
nice review
-
2. ... The wmod has crowd chatter, but with the pmod you can hear what they're saying more clearly.
Just be aware for both the Wu and Motherbug the crowd was definitely louder (and drunker) for the pmod selection. Especially the Motherbug, where a certain fellow taper tossed back a few too many and really started yakkin it up during the second set. I was going to put a notation in the info file for set2t2 "Love & Money Rap" by Todd N. "You've got love.... you've got money.... you've got love for your money... blah blah blah..." funny shit. Other random comical jabber throughout the second set. Really comes through in 24bit! ;D
Overall I agree with your observations. Nice review!
-
Yeah, that's kinda typical :) How many people were at that show? It sounds like a handful!
I have been listening to the Wu (16/44.1) at work today on my portable CDP. On my portable, my preferences swing towards the pmod... On a portable system, where you don't have the imaging, soundstaging, and resolution of a hifi rig, the pmod's strengths in terms of detail and less apparent midrange/upper bass really work to it's advantage, as these are usually overboosted and out of proportion on a portable. Also, the more emphasized highs help somewhat with the fact that my headphones probably tend to roll the highs a bit too much.
This emphasizes how much comprarisons, and opinions of them, are so system dependent... This is why Stereophile always lists associated equipment.
I am now intrigued, and tomorrow I'm going to run some more comparos on my "home office" rig, which consists of NAD 512 > NAD 712 > B&W DM302. It is a much lower rez rig than my main hifi, and emphasizes smoothness and midrange over absolute neutrality. It's bass-lean and somewhat rolled off on the top when compared to my main rig, but still soundstages and images pretty damn well. I am hypothesizing that I might prefer the pmod in that rig, too...
I'll post my thoughts on that tomorrow, or Sunday after another big shootout.
-
to bad you can't get both MOD's and have a switch so you can use what ever one would work best
-
that would be genius... ;)
bean
-
You could just get two and still come in cheaper than a V3 or Mme.