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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: paulbaptiste on October 08, 2008, 08:51:25 PM
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Had a couple conversations through Pm's about using hacked Naks with a newer version 9100 and was curiouis if anyone has any input. Possitive or Negative experience? How long it can properly power the mic beyond lower voltage would cause the sound to degrade/distort ect. Or are there any other low-pro pre's out there that would be better suited for these microphones.
Thank You
Nick
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Make your you have a newer version that puts out a 9 volts and also understand they run not so h0t so you will need more gain else where.
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Thanks for opening up the dialogue ;D I PM'd Chris regarding the 9100 line and the chopped Naks and he said that only the latest 3.3a model would power the Naks appropriately. However, another TS'er measured the output of his very new 9100 (I assume a 3.3a) and it was 7.5v. So i'm not sure what to think here. Unfortunately, I get lost when it comes to the real technical side of gear, so hopefully some dialogue here will clear things up. . .
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That was I that checked the voltage on the new 9100 I just got from Chris. Unless I was measuring the output wrong. The battery I had in it was on the older side and measured 8.4v or something when I put it in. I recall in another thread Chris saying that none of the 9100s output a full 9v unless the 3.3a does.
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maybe Chris will chime in here or anyone with some positive experience with the chopped naks and the 9100. have yet to truly run mine in the fields so am curious if i need to look elswhere pre-wise to power these. keep the dialogue open.
I have the 3.2v 9100
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Well Chris knows I'm buying a ST-9000 for my Modified Nak 300's and he didn't say anything about the ST-9100 3.3a being the only one that powered the Naks properly. Mabey's he gonna build me a ST-9000 that does give me a full 9 volts. I sent him a pm. I'm sure he'll shed some light on the subject.
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The 9000 puts out a full 9 volts dc for bias the 9100 puts out about 8.4 volts this is due to the split supply that the 9100 uses. From version 3.2 to 3.3a you should be seeing a full 8.4 volts at the input with respect to the input ground. You might get a slightly lower voltage if you use a weak 9 volt battery or your Volt meter sucks :)
Chris
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The 9000 puts out a full 9 volts dc for bias the 9100 puts out about 8.4 volts this is due to the split supply that the 9100 uses. From version 3.2 to 3.3a you should be seeing a full 8.4 volts at the input with respect to the input ground. You might get a slightly lower voltage if you use a weak 9 volt battery or your Volt meter sucks :)
Chris
So, would the 9000 be the only pre to power the naks properly? if not, and the 9100 will power them appropriately at 8.4v, then wouldn't any of the 9100s be suitable? if not, then what is it about the 3.3a version that makes better suited for the naks? sorry, but i'm even more confused.
fwiw, i always use a fresh battery when rolling a show.
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Hi,
The Nakamichi CM-300 will work on voltages between 1.5 to 15V. With only 1.5V you will loose about 20dB of headroom. 1.5V gives 3% distorsion at 118dB. 9V will allow 138dB. As long a you stay above 6V or so, you are on the safe side.
Roger
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Hi,
The Nakamichi CM-300 will work on voltages between 1.5 to 15V. With only 1.5V you will loose about 20dB of headroom. 1.5V gives 3% distorsion at 118dB. 9V will allow 138dB. As long a you stay above 6V or so, you are on the safe side.
Roger
that sounds like good news> i thought anything less than 9v would cause distortion
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Hi,
The Nakamichi CM-300 will work on voltages between 1.5 to 15V. With only 1.5V you will loose about 20dB of headroom. 1.5V gives 3% distorsion at 118dB. 9V will allow 138dB. As long a you stay above 6V or so, you are on the safe side.
Roger
that sounds like good news> i thought anything less than 9v would cause distortion
No but when you get down to less then 5 volts your in uncharted territory for live shows.
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I've seen two data points... "6 point something" volts (like 6.5 maybe?) and that worked OK... sounded great. Another case of "3 point something" volts, and that one brickwalled... pretty distorted. This was an outdoor moe show... reasonably loud, but certainly not like indoor death metal.
I don't know if anyone has much data as to how long typical 9V alkaline batteries will last in that rig before they start to drop off. For starters, I'd suggest putting in fresh batteries whenever you are heading to an important show, and save the old ones in your Ex-wife's smoke alarm. :lol:
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I've seen two data points... "6 point something" volts (like 6.5 maybe?) and that worked OK... sounded great. Another case of "3 point something" volts, and that one brickwalled... pretty distorted. This was an outdoor moe show... reasonably loud, but certainly not like indoor death metal.
I don't know if anyone has much data as to how long typical 9V alkaline batteries will last in that rig before they start to drop off. For starters, I'd suggest putting in fresh batteries whenever you are heading to an important show, and save the old ones in your Ex-wife's smoke alarm. :lol:
Its been so long since I worked on any Nak mics but I do seem to remember anything below 5 volts was a problem for distortion.
Chris
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The Nakamichi CM-300 will work on voltages between 1.5 to 15V. With only 1.5V you will loose about 20dB of headroom. 1.5V gives 3% distorsion at 118dB. 9V will allow 138dB. As long a you stay above 6V or so, you are on the safe side.
Roger, thanks a lot for your input, T+!
I recall having a similar discussion with you in the Nak team board...
Considering the OP asked about chopped Naks, not the stock models. Does this change the voltage requirements at all, or is it just imperative to keep the cables short?
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sorry for the thread hijack.
I was also wondering if a 9100 or ca ugly would power my akg ck91 "3wire batt box" set up.
How many volts do the akg's need to function properly?
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,71622.0.html
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Considering the OP asked about chopped Naks, not the stock models. Does this change the voltage requirements at all, or is it just imperative to keep the cables short?
They are the same. The capsule sees this voltage, and it doesn't matter if it's from a full Nak body with the ER 206 or from the chopped nak and preamp.
And to specifically answer the OP question, the 8'ish volts from the newer 9100 should be enough voltage.
As Seth said, you will probably need another gain stage.
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How much gain does the 9100 provide? I knew the nak 300s were light on output, but are they really in that much need of additional gain to put more gear in the chain? Why not just boost in post?
I should note that I have never used the Church pre, but am curious.
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How much gain does the 9100 provide? I knew the nak 300s were light on output, but are they really in that much need of additional gain to put more gear in the chain? Why not just boost in post?
I should note that I have never used the Church pre, but am curious.
The Naks are very low on the output around -38 at 114db at 1k that's not very much output if your at a show that's say 100 db you would be looking at significantly less then -38 so I would definitely recommend a preamp for these mics. That being said my 9100 puts out 23 db of gain at full output and the noise level at that output is
-98dBA.
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Chris,
Can you please advise the output level/impedance spec of the 9100 ?
ie The Nak mx-100 is 100mV/560 ohms and does not require me to add any gain in post or on my recorder.
Thanks
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sorry for the thread hijack.
I was also wondering if a 9100 or ca ugly would power my akg ck91 "3wire batt box" set up.
How many volts do the akg's need to function properly?
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,71622.0.html
Church will customize the 9100 with mini-XLR inputs if you ask nicely, which allows for 3-wire mic setup (AT853 etc). I don't think this option is available on CA-Ugly because of size constraints.
I can't say anything about modded AKG caps because I never used any, but drop Chris a PM and he will sort it out...
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For the information, the Nakamichi MX-100 have a maximum gain of 500 (54dB). 0.2mV of input gives 100mV of output. With chopped Nakamichi CM-300/CM-100, I think you will need a gain of about 30-45dB while recording acoustic music in an normal setup. I have no idea of what gain is needed for stealthing amplified music