Topic: Korg MR-1

[MattH]

time will tell.  I only like recording "real music" for my tests.  recording my stereo in the living room doesnt do it for me.

seeing how i'm firmly believing these DSD>redbook conversion do sound better than any of the raw 24bit or 24b>redbook conversions ive made so far this year, I would guess that DSD>anything is going to sound better than raw PCM recorded at whatever sample rate you want.

I also see absolutely no need to go DSD>24bit.  CDs sound very, very good, and i'm happy.  I'll do some DSD>24bit conversions w/a track from my onstage recording last week and post them for you guys to check out.

While I am a big DSD advocate and have been playing around with the format since last June, I'm having a hard time with the comment about DSD> CD sounding better than native 24 bit or as good as DSD>24bit.

I know I will not be doing any DSD>24 bit in the future only because I will either play DSD on the recorder (until new players or software become available) or CD's for convenience. 24 bit is out the door.

I know from all my listening tests over the last nine months that DSD makes PCM sound bad in comparison including DSD>PCM. Now perhaps the AG software has some new dithering scheme that sounds better than everyone elses.

[Brian Skalinder]

I'll be all over DSD once I can playback the format from my PC, across my wireless network, into my LR.  Methinks I have a long time to wait.   

[bgalizio]

I'll be all over DSD once I can playback the format from my PC, across my wireless network, into my LR.  Methinks I have a long time to wait.  

Same here.

[Gutbucket]

I'll be all over DSD once I can playback the format from my PC, across my wireless network, into my LR.  Methinks I have a long time to wait.   

That indeed is the clincher.  I've been playing everything via computer these days.  Converting via software to PCM is a stopgap measure that may be acceptable to me if it sounds better than my current 24/28 PCM recording rig.  That difference, if I hear it, could be because of the circuitry & software evolved as much as the DSD format itself.

The convenience and ease of use of the R-09 (batt's, simple card swap, no conversion req.) is the other sie of the coin that will be hard to beat for me.

[SClassical]

I've put a picture of one of my gear (without the mics) in this link. I've been using it for the past few weeks. Used it a few times now. I'm actually now very pleased with the sound and ease of use 

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,81311.0.html


(I hope Sony plan's to make a portable DSD recorder since they are the owner of this technology. They made the PCM D1 recorder so hopefully they will make a DSD one, too. It would be very strange if they haven't thought about promoting their own stuff. Hopefully a recorder without mics attached! - Just dreaming).

[jerrythek]

Can you tell me the link for the US download?

Sure, here it is:

http://www.korg.com/service/downloadinfo.asp?DID=1242

Regards,

Jerry

[jerrythek]

(I hope Sony plan's to make a portable DSD recorder since they are the owner of this technology. They made the PCM D1 recorder so hopefully they will make a DSD one, too. It would be very strange if they haven't thought about promoting their own stuff. Hopefully a recorder without mics attached! - Just dreaming).

Not to "diss" Sony, since they are a very important partner and leader in promoting the DSD platform, but they are not the owner of the technology. The inventor (Japanese professor at Waseda Univ.) I mentioned in another thread is very much the owner of it and he licensed the technology to Sony/Phillips and some others, including Korg.

Credit where credit is due!

 

Regards,

Jerry

[newblue]

It would be nice if Professor DSD would open up his license on DSD technology so that the format could flourish.  As you mentioned Jerry, DSD is proprietary.  With Sony/Phillips being on board from the start, I thought that they would have wanted exclusive rights to DSD and SACD, or at least some semblance of control of the license and who would be able to join in their venture (which I'd bet is the case).  But if KORG was able to obtain a license from the Prof., then does that mean that Sony/Phillips is no longer guarding their interests as closely as they once were (focusing on Blu-Ray now), OR that Sony/Phillips has no plans to produce a mobile DSD recorder (so that KORGs plans would not infringe on Sony/Phillips' turf).  Anyway you cut it, somethings got to give to allow DSD to really open up.  But, KORG would also probably hate to see that happen, and give up an essentially zero-competition market place. But (again), from a practical stand-point it would be like selling steak to people with no teeth, what can they do with it, really?  Sorry for the stream-of-consciousness ramblings.

Still looking forward to my MR-1000.

[boyacrobat]

i need an answer --its my cash im using -- giving it to korg possibly..
i buy mr-1  start rec but cannot edit my rec done in dsd ...

but i want to edit my rec in dsd and not look back..

does korg support the vision of dsd editing for this product - or is korg leaving this to someone else.. ??
is this a future support product..?? 

has the proffessor got the dsd editing part worked out and can we expect korg to support dsd editing as it evolves & becomes available ....??
will ag support the future via free upgrades to ag or am i to expect more outlay to software.. ??

just what does dsd future mean for korg support to the mr-1???
pc dsd playback--how far or close --can i expect this to happen ..

mr-1 is alone in this world-it needs more tools in all areas-i hope some news for tools is available..

ag does more support for the wav side of things-will it support dsd more in the future ??

well done korg for the vision of the future..

g.

[jmz93]

my 2nd outing was not the best.  also DSD mastered and processed as above.  just a poor location in the venue.  nothing wrong w/it.  it recorded what I heard but its nothing to wow about.

:-)

its easy to use.  fires up super fast and is ready to roll in 2 seconds, give or take 1.
while its rolling, you can go into the menu and adjust levels. Everything seems to be very intuitive.  Getting the files off of the unit w/the USB cable (the only option) is a bit strange as you have to tell the deck that its in USB mode, and then tell it that your finished so you can uplug it safely.  not very USB like, imo.  I"m used to just yankin' cables.  But since they (korg) went to the trouble of adding this to the menu and a big warning on the screen when set...I will respect that.

Hmmm, that is a red flag for me.. As someone who is blind, I'm glad my Microtrack 2496 an go into USB/PC transfer mode simply by plugging in the USB cable.  Can those of you with the MMR1 get into the menus and switch to USB mode reliably, without looking at the display?

I guess what I'm asking is, can you memorize the required button pushes, and are they repeatable?  Also, do the menus wrap on this thing or if you are, say, on the last menu item and press down again, do you end up at the top of the menu or do you remain on the last item?

Having menus that don't wrap in this way will at least let me memorize sequences of button pushes.

Some experimenting in the dark, i.e. a darkened venu, would be appreciated, since it is at least a little bit like my situation.

Heck, I'll be happy if the controls are more likely to activate when pressed than the NAV control on my Microtrack - that thing is notoriously undependable, and I usually end up hhanding it to someone with eyeballs and going "ok, go into record options, sampling frequency, and ..."

[Nick's Picks]

no, the menus do not wrap.  buttons are pretty easy to deal with and not "mis press"
I think you'll have an easy time w/this , feeling your way through.

[SClassical]

I just want to know is it best to keep the gain at 0? Yesterday I had my gain at -15dB with a preamp - I ended up with brickwalling as shown below. The right channel shows brickwalling clearly.

Another question is why brickwalling at -3.9dB at the right channel -any special reason for this value in this particular recording session?? For this particular recording session is it the recorder or the preamp that determine the max vol when brickwalling occurs (in this case -3.9dB right channel)? Would brickwalling always be -3.9dB or different depending on the settings/recorder/preamp??? Do you advise me to increase the recorder gain to 0dB and try and reduce the gain on my MixPre? It's difficult to adjust the gain in my MixPre because when reducing the gain too low you reach a point when you have no signal. It's like an all or nothing signal. I find it extremely difficult to do a gradual increase/decrease of the gain with the MixPre because the complete useable gain range on the mixpre before clipping (without mics) is within a ~2cm turn on the knobs.
 

[Nick's Picks]

hmm..
well, you look to have one channel about 4+db hotter than the other?
I run mine at around -10db to -13db when I use my Apogee MMP in front of it.  No brickwalling issues to report here, but it does run a little hot.

[SClassical]

I tried to make both channels the same but a fraction of a mm turn on the MixPre knobs changes the gain to a few dB...That's why I find working with the MixPre difficult. Tonight I will do an experiment and move the MR-1 gain to 0 and move the external preamp closer to the min and see if I get better results. It will be difficult because MixPre knob is not like the V3 or MMA6000 or any other preamps I've used.

One thing I don't understand is who is responsible for my brickwalling when peaks reaches -3.9dB....Is it because my MR-1 has a -15dB gain setting (too low or too high) or my MixPre gain was set too high (no markings on the MixPre knobs so cannot give any value)? And also why -3.9dB and not 0dB for brickwalling?? How did the MR-1 or MixPre decide to have brickwalling when signal reaches -3.9dB and above??

[Brian Skalinder]

One thing I don't understand is who is responsible for my brickwalling when peaks reaches -3.9dB....Is it because my MR-1 has a -15dB gain setting (too low or too high) or my MixPre gain was set too high (no markings on the MixPre knobs so cannot give any value)? And also why -3.9dB and not 0dB for brickwalling?? How did the MR-1 or MixPre decide to have brickwalling when signal reaches -3.9dB and above??

Let's distinguish between "clipping" and "brickwalling".  Clipping refers to levels running too hot into the ADC, resulting in >= 3 consecutive samples at 0 dBFS, and occurs in the digital domain.  Brickwalling is overloading of an analog stage and not tied directly to dBFS levels in the digital domain.  Generally speaking, a squaring off of the waveform at 0 dBFS usually indicates clipping, while squaring off of the waveform at some level below 0 dBFS usually indicates brickwalling.  So...in this case, it seems some analog is overloading. 

I'm not familiar with the MR-1.  Does it provide for line-in and mic-in?  If so, confirm you're running line-in.  Running mic-in with an external preamp may overload the analog mic input.  If it accepts line-in, what dBu level does it accept?  Then crosscheck that with the MixPre's dBu output as a starting point for trying to track down the cause.  The MixPre's dBu output should be lower than the MR-1's input dBu spec.