Topic: Can someone suggest me a playback system from scratch??I need help man!

[Ray76]

I can get it piece meal, so cost isnt so much of an issue. Just not TOO ridiculous.
I dont give a continental damn about looks, just want it to sound good. I will be listening to the normal taper fare...--tapes, and also my bands recording sessions and my normal cds. I need the whole shebang from the nuts to the bolts, speakers and all..
Please list a couple different options. Thanks so much. THere is a reward for whoever helps me.
Ray

[dmonterisi]

hey Ray--

there have been a lot of similar posts in the playback board, I'd suggest going back through and reading those.  Also, posting a budget would be really helpful to these guys.  you're gonna get responses from $500 to $20,000 and up without some top limit.  also, size of playback room and whether you want to do surround for home theater is useful info.

[Daryan]

I'll help a bit, and might as well get out the inevitable...

People here seem to really like the Sony xxxxes line of digital receivers.   I don't have any experience with them, so I really cannot comment on their relative performance compared to any of the other digitals amps.  I have used The panasonic line, both the xr-50 and now the xr-45, and mine is modded quite a bit, like 900 bucks bit I guess it came to.  If you like clean, detailed, refined, shiny, bright (although this term is not applicable to these units once modded), go with digital amplification.  It's price/performance ration is unparrallled in the industry.  It would take 3 grand or more IMHO to get the same sound with analog amps.  I will post a review here of my modded bolder panasonic xr-45 once I get it finished, the unit is stunning to say the least.

Assuming that takes care of the amp end, let's talk speakers.  There are a ton of great sounding speakers out there, especially if you haven't heard higher end speakers.  My personal favorite is the direct to the end user lines of Rocket and Swan for their price performance ration, but you can and should do better if you are willling to top 2 grand in this area.  Check audiocircle.com, audiongon.com, head-fi.org, etc for never ending opinions on what sounds great for 2 grand, the possibilities really are endless.  If I was investing money over a greand or so, I would head to your local shop, audition a bunch of speakers, then search for a low price on-line and see if they wil match whatever it is you decide on, or at minimum, come close once you factor in shipping.

Cables:  IMHO, speaker cables are absolutely vital in a home theater or two channel audiophile setup.   You can spend 100 bucks, or you can spend 20 grand here, it's all up to you.  If you want t6o start cheap, go with the home depot or vehnaud cat 5 designs, they can't be beat for what they are.  I am currently using Bolder M-80's, which are realitively cheap in audiophile land, they run about 150-250 bucks depending on length and are light years better sounding then the aforementioned varities.  If you want to spend more, check out some of the manufacturer's pages at audio circle, mostly independant dealers with little overhead who are very helpful and honest. 

Digital Cables:  There ARE differences in digital cables.  Get a good high quality one and you will be happy.  Spend 50 bucks or more, and don't buy anything Monster, it's horrendous.  Great deals on sillver cables at http://www.cryotweaks.com.  If you want a direct link, I can dig it up, PM me. 

Analog interconects...if you have the need, a great starter pair of silver cables should help here.  I am a big fan of the sound of silver, some are not, use your ears, grab a couple pair, then resell the ones that didn't work out.  Also, a lot of the smaller companies out there offer 30 day home trials minus shipping, take them up on it.  The Bolder Nitros smoke, but are quite pricey.  There is a guy on audiogon selling silver interconnects for less that 50 bucks shipped priority, and they are easilybsite for him is comparable to 200 dollar plus interconnects at a fraction of the cost.   I can find the add if you want me to.

That's all for now, if you have any questions, I will offer what I am able.

Daryan

[Ray76]

hey Ray--

there have been a lot of similar posts in the playback board, I'd suggest going back through and reading those.  Also, posting a budget would be really helpful to these guys.  you're gonna get responses from $500 to $20,000 and up without some top limit.  also, size of playback room and whether you want to do surround for home theater is useful info.

Ok, well, Lets start with a budget of say..3 or 4000 (which I will be getting piecemeal of course).... The playback room is pretty small, my office at home. I can get measurem,ents up later today. Sorry for my lack of knowledge.I am gettin better.

Ray

[ducati]

Ah!  This is the most fun part of hifi--your first good rig  

You need to figure out what sound you like...  Get a feel for the sounic signatures that different gear will impinge upon a system.  While I love the sound of my hifi, I'm sure there are folks out there who wouldn't.  This is the problem with asking for recommendations; it's like flavors of ice cream.  Chocolate or Vanilla?  Hell, I like strawberry--you may HATE it!    Case in point--I do not, at all, like the digital amps mentioned above.  It's all in YOUR EARS.

I know, I've been there, heeded advice from friends/magazines/web, and HATED what I ended up with.  When you find yourself not using your hifi as much as you did your old cheapie...  Well, you're in hifi hell.

So my advice to stay out of hifi hell is to find a local hifi shop or 2 (more if you're lucky!!) and start auditioning.  DON'T buy the first rig you like, listen to as much as possible.  Take music you know intimately, and music that is similar to what you listen to (vary it as much as possible).  Make the dealer mix and match components, work for his $$.  Hopefully he'll have something in his budget that you'll like.

For me, I've determined that I like an all-tubed amplification stage.  No transistors in the path.  Find some tubed systems, have a listen, and if you fall on that side of the fence I'd consider a good tubed integrated (integrated amps are usually fantastic bang-for-the-buck) like the Manley Stingray, ARC VSi55, or a Cary SLI-88.  You can find those used for ~$1500-1900.  If you want to go new, (or cheaper used) check the Jolidas (I had a 202 for awhile), Antique Sound Labs, and the PrimaLuna imported by Kevin deal of Upscale Audio.  You could also consider a used ARC SP6 paired with an older VT50 or a used VS55; you might just be able to sneak those in.  There are probably some other preamp/amp combos that you could slide in your budget.

If you like solid state sound better, I'd still consider an integrated at your price point, although SS amps and pre's can be had for --a few I have really liked in the past are the Creek 5350SE and 4330.  You can find a 4330 for under 400 bucks...  Another company I love is McCormack.  A DNA-125 and RLD-1 combo is a AWESOME pair, and would hit just about $1900.  I have a RLD-1 that will shortly go up for sale, in fact, as I'm just moving from that preamp to a tubed ARC--it took me a few years to settle on the replacement, the McCormack was so good.  Note that the solid-state units I like are more "tubey" sounding--so if you really like solid-state-sounding-solid-state look at Krell, Bryston (their integrated is excellent), many others.

Also, do buy a good CDP.  There are some excellent units for good prices, stay away from universal players, IMO, at your price point.  I like Rega Planet/Jupiter, Musical Fidelity (various, VRayV3 is newest), Rotel 1072 if you like it's sound.

As for cables--take your dealer's reco on this and budget at least $350 (if you go with an integrated), I'd say.

HTH, and have fun...  And remember to use YOUR ears, not ours.  !!

[Thom Joad]

This should be bookmarked:

http://www.audioasylum.com/index.html

Lots of great reading. 

When I was in Portugal last March, there was an awesome HiFi shop right around the corner from our hotel.  I spent some time in there (much to the wife's dismay) and got to listen to some really fantastic gear (including the brand new Sonus Faber Stradivari Homage, which is the best I've ever heard strings reproduced).  Much of the good stuff comes from the EU, so I imagine if you find a few shops around you, they'll have a very wide variety of manufacturers for you to sample. 

Like the last poster said, trust YOUR ears.

[Nick's Picks]

Ok, well, Lets start with a budget of say..3 or 4000 (which I will be getting piecemeal of course).... The playback room is pretty small, my office at home. I can get measurem,ents up later today. Sorry for my lack of knowledge.I am gettin better.

Ray

A $3k used system is yesterdays brand new $7k stereo, and if you shop around...research and ask a lot of questions in the right places you could put together a remarkable rig on this budget.
Anything I recomend below I do on the merrits of what I have heard first hand, and how I think they measured up to similar products plus how they jive with what *I like* in my music reproduction.

Listening to "taper music" mostly, best to set your sights on a refference system that will be neutral, detailed and honest.  You want to hear what these $5k recording rigs are picking up!!

for a small room, you'll want some monitors.
IMO, get yourself a nice integrated amp and a pair of nice monitors and a sub (or a pair of them is better).  With the right monitor in a small room, a sub may be optional.  You can buy much better stuff used for $3k than you can new for $4k.  food for thought.
buy used cables.  I'll 2nd the Boulder Cable co products.  I run some tricked out M-80s, and I think they are only $120 stock.
I'd go w/the same cable company all around for synergy's sake.  speaker, ICs, digi..etc.
For a source, there are tons of nice universal decks out there to choose from.  I'd make sure I had something that played SACD.

on the cheap end...you could put together a total sony system consisting of SACD/CD deck and digital amp and be under $1000.  And it would sound really, really good.  Maybe even as good as something you'd spend $3k on new. 

definately get familiar with www.audiogon.com
GREAT place for used gear, knowledgable people and tons of retailers advertise there too.
Easy search functions, so you can get going w/o knowing exactly what you are looking for.

If it were my money, and we are talking about a small room...
Id go back to a Manley Stingray 50wpc integrated tube amp  (I can get you a deal on a new one that will be as cheap as a used one, or cheaper).  I recomend this because I owned one for a while, and it was just sooo cool, and sounded so warm and punchy.  Just as pleasent to look at as well as listen to.
a pair of Von Schweikert VR1 monitors, or VR2 towers if you have room (they are an AMAZINGLY powerful speaker)
and for a source, i'd pick up a used high end Sony SACD player that also was killer on redbook.  There are tons of them.

No sub needed w/either of these....exept maybe the VR1.
Probably $4k in total including cables.

Rock on!
I wish I were you right now w/$4k to rebuild my system.

[MattD]

I'd recommend a sub with the VR1 monitors. I find that drums and the lowest end of bass instruments don't have the "punch" I'd expect from them. Unfortunately for me, I'm in an apartment and a sub would piss off the neighbors more than it'd be worth. If you're getting a house, I'd look into a sub if the VR1s are what you decide on.

[Ray76]

Thanks yall so so much!+T+T+T
Ray

[ducati]

Audioasylum is a great resource--but I urge you to take it with a grain of salt and in small doses.  The asylum tends to breed "component of the month" syndrome, especially in the budget arena--and I have found, through prior experience, that many of these components STINK to my ears. 

I speak from experience above, and I'll reiterate, because it's so important--listen with your own ears!!

[dmonterisi]

I speak from experience above, and I'll reiterate, because it's so important--listen with your own ears!!

yeah, you need to find a high-end store with the components you are looking at and take some music you know well and compare stuff. 

[Ray76]

Thanks yall. Will be goin on an excursion today. +T+T
Ray

[BobW]

Thanks yall. Will be goin on an excursion today. +T+T
Ray

Not to be a buzzkill, but just a thought:

<rubbing hands> Ray becomes next US Serviceman to buy a bunch of high-end audio stuff abroad that he sells before his next big relo   -- fueling up the yardsale !  </rubbing-hands>   

Just remember what this stuff weighs and how hard it is to ship around. (or impossible as in MDF tower speakers)
If I were in a moving mode, I'd go with a great headphone amp and a nice set of Senns or Grados.

Audiogon has a at least one high-end tube amp and set of speaks each week for sale by another Serviceman on the move.
Selling lag time on the high-end can be months, not always possible for a military person.

[Ray76]

Thanks yall. Will be goin on an excursion today. +T+T
Ray

Not to be a buzzkill, but just a thought:

<rubbing hands> Ray becomes next US Serviceman to buy a bunch of high-end audio stuff abroad that he sells before his next big relo   -- fueling up the yardsale !  </rubbing-hands>   

Just remember what this stuff weighs and how hard it is to ship around. (or impossible as in MDF tower speakers)
If I were in a moving mode, I'd go with a great headphone amp and a nice set of Senns or Grados.

Audiogon has a at least one high-end tube amp and set of speaks each week for sale by another Serviceman on the move.
Selling lag time on the high-end can be months, not always possible for a military person.

Oh, but I am not relocating to another mil base, I am getting the hell out!!!!(sep 06) The army will ship all my stuff free when I get out  all the way back to my home.  They will also ship 1 vehicle per service member(my wife and I are both mil , so we get two vehicles to ship) for free, so she is gonna buy herself a New TAX free beamer...I am considering gettin myself a vehicle as well, but I want a truck, not a beamer. I like pickups myself, I need a vehicle to work with, not to BLING.....anyway, I digress...Oh no, I aint gonna buy some nice stuff to turn around and sell, hell naw!!!Maybe lifers(career military) do that, but not this guy! I been there got the tshirt, and I am finished...This is my last duty station!!Thank God!!
Ray

[Tim]

some good stuff in here!

sorry I missed you Ray, computer problems...

btw - still enjoying those cookies!