Topic: Cheapest wavelab using the UV22HR algorithm?

[noam]

Which version of Wavelab do I need to get to be able to convert 96/24 hi-rez tapes to redbook using the UV22HR algorithm? I don't mean 4.0, 5.0 or 6.0, but whether the  Steinberg WaveLab Essential 6, that is only $99 would have that feature, or do I need to shell out >$500 for the full version?

Noam

[TNJazz]

You might consider iZotope Ozone 3 and its MBIT+ algorithm For $169 (or so) instead. 

It's VST, AU and RTAS so it's useable in your favorite audio editor already.

I used Wavelab and UV22HR for a long time, but I heard a surprising improvement when I started using Ozone.

[mmedley.]

Ozone rules. UV22HR is a very nice algorithm too. I cannot tell a huge difference in the dithering, but the tools that come with Ozone are worth 10x what they charge. If you are thinking Wavelab 6, then you must get the FULL version, the Wavelab Essential, Wavelab Studio, etc do not have the Apogee dither algorithms included. Wavelab 5 does however, but I doubt you will find it for sale publicly. Also, Wavelab 6 requires a dongle. Dumbest fucking thing ever if you ask me, but that is for another thread.

[OFOTD]

You might consider iZotope Ozone 3 and its MBIT+ algorithm For $169 (or so) instead. 

It's VST, AU and RTAS so it's useable in your favorite audio editor already.

I used Wavelab and UV22HR for a long time, but I heard a surprising improvement when I started using Ozone.

+1

I used to be a big fan of the UV22HR dither.  In fact it was the only reason I was using WaveLab for a while.  Picked up Ozone 3 with MBIT+ and i'm sold.   I can use it with my preferred audio program (SoundForge 9) and the MBIT+ is a huge improvement over UV22HR to my ears.   

[noam]

I purchased the Ozone 3. I use SF8 for editing.  SF8 becomes unstable after I edit about 10-20 large files (10-12GB) and I have to uninstall it and reinstall it. I can do that with the same activation code because it’s an OEM version (is that why it becomes unstable?)

My concern is that if I authorize the Ozone 3 (activate with the authorization code on the package) and use it as a plug -in in the SF8, when I uninstall the SF8 and reinstall it, I will need to activate/authorize the Ozone 3 again and it will not let me do that, since it will recognize the attempt to plug it in again like trying to install it for a second user, or will it? What do you think? Is the relationship between the host program and the Ozone 3 plug-in a catholic marriage or will the Ozone 3 work with any host program in the same computer once authorized, even with a reinstalled SF8? Can several programs in the same computer use the Ozone 3 as a plug-in?

I tried to plug in the Ozone 3 into another program that I don’t uninstall and reinstall regularly, like Nero, but wasn’t able to.

The Ozone 3 can work for 10 days as a demo without authorizing/activating, and the sound quality gradually deteriorates during these 10 days unless I authorize it. Could I possibly uninstall both the SF8 and the Ozone 3 and reinstall them only on a day I use them without ever authorizing the Ozone 3, and do it again and again?

And finally, the only thing I need from the Ozone 3 is to convert hi-rez 96/24 files to redbook using the best algorithm. Could someone please give me a QuickGuide how to do it?

Thanks, Noam

[Brian Skalinder]

Noam  --  If I were you, I'd address the root cause of the problem, instead of dorking around with workarounds.  I'd call SF support and get to the bottom of why SF becomes unstable and requires re-installation so frequently.  Anything else will prove a PITA now and / or on-going.  $0.02.

[boojum]

You might consider iZotope Ozone 3 and its MBIT+ algorithm For $169 (or so) instead. 

It's VST, AU and RTAS so it's useable in your favorite audio editor already.

I used Wavelab and UV22HR for a long time, but I heard a surprising improvement when I started using Ozone.

I am using SAM 10 Master.  What the devil are these other dithering plugins and do I need them???

[noam]

Noam  --  If I were you, I'd address the root cause of the problem, instead of dorking around with workarounds.  I'd call SF support and get to the bottom of why SF becomes unstable and requires re-installation so frequently.  Anything else will prove a PITA now and / or on-going.  $0.02.

SONY would not provide any support for SF without a subscription and M-Audio support told me the problem may (or may not) be with my Windows XP, which is the first version, Media Center Edition, which is no good with audio editing software. It so happens that my Disc Welder Bronze burned a DVD-A today with a split second drop in sound, which never happened before, so that sort of convinced me that the problem IS with the Media Center Edition. This is my Computer 2, which is only for music editing and not connected to the internet. It also so happens that my computer 1 (for everything else) died yesterday and I took it to a computer shop.
they told me that the Media Center Edition indeed sucks, but that there is nothing wrong with my computer 1, which came back from the dead.

The end result is that I'm buying a new computer, and all this only to get the best conversion from hi-rez to redbook, and I'm not even sure that that would be enough, because there is no real tech support for software.

Noam

[Brian Skalinder]

I am using SAM 10 Master.  What the devil are these other dithering plugins and do I need them???

VST, AU, and RTAS are simply different formats / standards plugins may use to integrate with various types of software.

iZotope Ozone is a mastering suite of tools, which includes an excellent dithering and noise shaping algorithm called MBIT+.  MBIT+ is definitely my favorite dither / noise shaping.  I also like Ozone's maximizer (compressor) and paragraphic EQ.  However, you don't really "need" Ozone, since SAM already provides the same or similar functionality.  But if you particularly like the sound of some of the tools in the suite, then you may want to give it a go.  They may have a demo version available if you want to try it.

UV22HR is a dithering / noise shaping algorithm.  It's not readily available as a standalone VST / AU / RTAS plugin.  Instead, tapers who like this dither plugin use it in some versions of WaveLab, into which it's integrated.  It's a pretty popular dither / noise shaping algorithm among tapers, though I don't particularly care for it.

Personally, I use SAM SE and don't bother with Ozone (or UV22HR) because I prefer to keep my workflow as simple as possible, and SAM's tools and dither sound mighty fine to my ears.  Maybe not quite as good Ozone (though I think better than UV22HR), but good enough to warrant not bothering with a more complicated workflow.

[boojum]

^^^^ BS - Yeah, I checked the info on the algorithm and am on board there.  I just thought this was part of the black magic kit that made all recordings sound great.  Just like the famous verb in COBOL: FIXIT.  I will stick with SAM, also, as it works and I am beginning to understand it.  Hopefully I will know the package sometime in the next few years.   

[OFOTD]

http://www.24-96.net/dither/index.htm

[OFOTD]

^^^^ BS - Yeah, I checked the info on the algorithm and am on board there.  I just thought this was part of the black magic kit that made all recordings sound great.  Just like the famous verb in COBOL: FIXIT.  I will stick with SAM, also, as it works and I am beginning to understand it.  Hopefully I will know the package sometime in the next few years.   

I know you believe that quite a bit of what we do is "black magic" but the audible differences amongst the different algorithms is extremely noticeable and extremely different from one to the other.    It is in fact such an audible difference that any attempt to call "b.s." or "black magic" is just factually wrong.

When I made the switch from UV22HR to MBIT+ is was a revelation to my ears.  One of the things (dither) that most of us take for granted makes a big overall difference in how your tapes sound.   The link I posted in the previous post was what got me to start listening to different dither algorithm's in the first place.  I did not use it as the end all be all but moreso as a jumping off point to download lots of trial/demo plugins and see what sounded best to my ears.   

Take the blind test.  See which one you like better.  If you can't tell a difference at all then maybe you have other issues to deal with then.

[Brian Skalinder]

It is in fact such an audible difference that any attempt to call "b.s." or "black magic" is just factually wrong.

Uhmmmm...I think the "BS" was directed at me, as in my initials.  I agree MBIT+ sounds best of all the dithering / noise shaping algos I've heard, including better than SAM (which in turn I prefer to UV22HR).  But the difference isn't worthwhile to me given the more convoluted workflow.  That said, I have all my masters backed up, so I can always re-dither down the road if I wish.

I'd link to my dither comp posted here at TS as another listening point, but I believe since I relinquished my tapers.org slot the files are no longer available online.

[OFOTD]

It is in fact such an audible difference that any attempt to call "b.s." or "black magic" is just factually wrong.

Uhmmmm...I think the "BS" was directed at me, as in my initials.  I agree MBIT+ sounds best of all the dithering / noise shaping algos I've heard, including better than SAM (which in turn I prefer to UV22HR).  But the difference isn't worthwhile to me given the more convoluted workflow.  That said, I have all my masters backed up, so I can always re-dither down the road if I wish.

I'd link to my dither comp posted here at TS as another listening point, but I believe since I relinquished my tapers.org slot the files are no longer available online.

Ahhh sorry for the insinuation then.     Brian your dither comp was another piece to my discovery process as well.   

Workflow wise I don't find it to be any more convoluted using Ozone 3 than using the built-in dither.   What problems or issues do you have using an external dithering plug-in?

[TNJazz]

It is in fact such an audible difference that any attempt to call "b.s." or "black magic" is just factually wrong.

Uhmmmm...I think the "BS" was directed at me, as in my initials. 

So should we call BS every time you post from now on, Brian?      

[boojum]

Hey, I thought the "^^^^ BS" made it plain I was referring to the post above me, Brian S.  Sorry about that.  Man, you guys are jumpy.  I hope you are not armed.   

[imazephed]

http://www.24-96.net/dither/index.htm

Good stuff...I guess I need to look into MBM as it was the best to my ears