Topic: Problems transferring DAT to computer - unusual feedback noise

[pearly]

Before I get into the details, I have searched the forums for possible topics related to my issue, but I only came across one thread that might have had the same problem, but the resolution was to uninstall Windows XP Service Pack 2.  I'm not sure if I like the idea of compromising security.

I am a new recording hobbyist and need your help!

Here is my setup :

Asus Z8100Ka notebook
AMD 64 3400+ (2.2Ghz) processor
1 GB of DDR-SDRAM
100GB hard drive

With

Sony PCM-M1 DAT using Maxwell 60m DDS tapes
Sonic Studios DSM-6S/L mics (www.sonicstudios.com)
Sony 7-pin S/PDIF coaxial cable
M-Audio Firewire Audiophile (younger brother of Firewire 410)
Adobe Audition and Sony Soundforge 8.0

Here's a sample of a recording that failed miserably : www.skim.cc/sample.wav

Here's the configuration I have set up on the back of the M1 (see attached pic)

Here's the configuration I have set up on the M-Audio Control Panel (see attached pic)

I have used both Adobe Audition and Sony Soundforge, but I get the same glitching feedback noise when recording anywhere from 5-15 minutes.  Can anyone help me with this problem?  Maybe I have the software configuration not properly set up?  I have read here in the forums that you should disable the built-in soundcard.  Also, Leonard from Sonic Studios told me to disable monitoring.  I appreciate any help from you guys, thanks!~

[pearly]

Here's the M1 config

[Kyle]

Weird - I use the audiophile 2496 but have had no such problem - Win2K though - it looks like your spdif input has the solo light lit - could that be it?

Also, I have heard of problems with anti-virus, internet turned on, etc. drawing too many resources - try disabling everything when you transfer

[pearly]

Thanks for the reply, cmc64.

I have tried different configuration variations including not checking the solo light and muting other inputs/outputs

I have also disabled all background processes such as firewall, anti-virus, etc.

I'm clueless why this is happening.

Interestingly though, I have heard about the freeware Audacity and used it on one of my DAT tapes and it recorded flawlessly for 20 minutes straight.  When I used the same DAT tape that I've used to transfer in Audition and Soundforge in Audacity, it froze up around the same area.  Could it be the DAT tape?  On playback via S/PDIF, it sounds flawless.  None of this makes sense!   

EDIT : Does this have anything to do with ASIO monitoring?  What does ASIO monitoring do anyway?

[F.O.Bean]

maybe set the clock for internal

i do all of my dat transferring from dat>hosa odl-276>jb3, cause i HATE configuring that shit on the comp

[pearly]

Hi Bean,

If I don't set it Sync Source to external, nothing comes in from S/PDIF in. 

What's Hosa ODL-276 and JB3?

[F.O.Bean]

the hosa odl-276 is a digital format converter, it converts a coaxial digital input to an optical digital input, and vice versa

the jb3 is the creative nomad jukebox 3, its basically a 20gb hard drive that has an optical digital input, its just me capturing device, just use it to record, some use it as an anlog to digital converter also, and some even use the gain, so they could run mics>jb3, tho those results are far less poor

anyway

that would set you back 150 for the jb3, and about 60 for the hosa w/ ac adapter, great setup for transferring dats IMO, then once burned onto the jb3, i simply plug the jb3 into the computer via firewire and in about an hr or so, all 20GB's are cleared

[pearly]

Any idea where I can get the Hosa and JB3 for cheap?  I'll do anything to get this resolved once and for all!!! 

DO you lose quality doing it this way?? 

[F.O.Bean]

Any idea where I can get the Hosa and JB3 for cheap?  I'll do anything to get this resolved once and for all!!! 

DO you lose quality doing it this way??

definitely not, the hosa odl-276 is bit-perfect, and the nomad jb3, when used w/ a decent optical cable, is just catching 1's and 0's

should be a biit-perfect copy of the dat if done right!

i must have transferred 100+ shows this way!

[kskreider]

I would personally try bumping up the buffer size.  384 is awfully low.  Try knocking it up to a setting up over 1000.  I think that the control panel on my f410 is set at 1024.

[pearly]

Thanks guys!  I'll try bumping up the buffer size and see how it goes.  If not, I'm satisfied with transferring DAT to JB3 

[pearly]

Well, I bumped up the buffer size to 2048 (max. setting) and got around 30 minutes of non-stop recording!!  It's my best so far.  Of course, the recording died with the uncanny feedback noise.

Anyone else running into this issue?  I'm still clueless why I'm the only one getting this error.

[kskreider]

Well, I bumped up the buffer size to 2048 (max. setting) and got around 30 minutes of non-stop recording!!  It's my best so far.  Of course, the recording died with the uncanny feedback noise.

Anyone else running into this issue?  I'm still clueless why I'm the only one getting this error.

Just listened to your sound sample.  Damn that is a shitty sound.   

Yah, I wasn't necessarily suggesting going up that high with the buffer by try starting at 1024 and bumping up in increments. 

After a listen the only other things that I can think about is it sounds like something wacky about your s/pdif signal.  My Zoltrix sounded like that if the signal was inversed. 

Do you have another 7-pin to S/pdif cable you can try? 

Have you successfully transferred DAT's in the past? 

Does the entire recording sound OK through headphones?  i.e. is the sound on the master?  Is it your Sony DAT deck?

Do you also have another way to get the signal to your PC?  i.e. anohter external sound card?  Did you set the windows sound recording properties to your M-audio product or is it still set to sound mapper, etc? 

The problem on my end is that I just tweeak the f^&* out of it until it works...and then I stop.   

Good luck man, I hope that it works out for you. 

[pearly]

Yeah it's pretty bad, huh? 

Unfortunately, I don't have another 7-pin to S/PDIF cable nor another external sound card.  I'm new to DAT recording so this is my first time attempting to transfer the music to the computer. 

When the recording is played back through the speakers, it sounds great, no glitches or feedback noise.  The issue is only apparent when I record the signal.  I'm not sure what you mean by "is the sound on the master", but I'm playing the DAT tape through my Sony DAT deck.

I guess the only other way to feed the signal is from the mini-jack line out to RCA.  I'll try that and let you know.  And yes I have the Windows Sound Recording Property to my M-Audio (see attached pictures)

Hehe, I feel like I've done all tweaking I can to make this work, but no go.  I hope this works out for me too and thanks for your suggestions! 

[ford prefect]

Here's a sample of a recording that failed miserably : www.skim.cc/sample.wav. 

This might be related - http://www.midiman.com/index.php?do=support.faq&ID=12cfebbf1c694ee8664859cfd004577c

I had an issue with my playback system (Computer > DiO 2496 > Sony Receiver > speakers) identical to that sound caused by a grounding issue.  It was caused by a loose speaker cable.


Q: I have a 60Hz hum in my audio and/or hear noise that seems to be dependent on my CPU or Harddisk activity. Why is that and what can I do about this?
A: What you are experiencing is commonly called “ground loop”. All devices in your studio should be connected to the same ground. If this is not the case and if one or more of the devices are getting their ground from somewhere else, (e.g. from a different power outlet that is running on a different electrical circuit) and devices with different ground are connected to each other (e.g mounted to the same rack rail), this type of noise might occur.

There are different ways to fix this type of problem. The easiest and most cost efficient way is what is called a “ground lift” in order to interrupt the “ground loop”. Not all devices work correctly with lifted ground and might overheat and/or create an electric shock hazard. Before lifting the ground on any device, please contact it’s manufacturer in order to find out if this device will work properly and if it will create an electric shock hazard under these conditions.

Depending on the amount of devices in your studio, it might be hard to find the device that is causing the problem. For this reason we suggest the following approach in order to detect the source of the problem:

1. Disconnect ALL peripheral devices from the computer except for your audio interface and speakers. Printers, network, antenna cable to a TV Tuner card, audio cables etc. should all be physically disconnected from the computer.
2. Check if the noise is still there. If not, skip to step 3 in this guide. If yes, continue with number 2a.
2a. If you are using a Laptop, unplug the power supply and run on battery power. If this resolves the problem, you will have to lift the ground on the laptop’s power supply. (IMPORTANT: Contact the Laptop’s manufacturer to find out if lifting the ground is supported on this device).
2b. If you are using a Desktop computer, while you can hear the noise or have audio playing, turn your Monitor off, and then disconnect it’s power cable. If the noise is gone, you will have to lift the ground on the Monitor. (IMPORTANT: Contact the Monitor’s manufacturer to find out if lifting the ground is supported on this device). If the noise is still there, reconnect your Monitor, turn it back on and go to the next step in this guide.
2c. If your audio interface has a headphone output, disconnect the powered speakers or power amp with speakers from the interface and check if the noise is audible on the headphones. If the noise is gone, you will need to lift the ground on the powered speakers or amplifier (IMPORTANT: Contact the Monitor Speakers / Power Amp’s manufacturer to find out if lifting the ground is supported on this device).
3. If disconnecting all devices resolved the noise issue, start adding one device at a time and check if the noise reoccurs. Then, lift the ground on the device that made the noise problem reoccur. (IMPORTANT: Contact the manufacturer of the device you determined is causing the ground loop to find out if lifting the ground is supported on this device).

GROUND LIFT PROCEDURE:
IMPORTANT: Before you proceed, make sure that you have contacted the manufacturer of the device you intend to lift the ground on. If this is not supported for this device, lifting the ground can cause damages, serious injuries or death!

The best way to lift the ground on a device is to use a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter. These are available at electronic stores such as Radio Shack or Home Depot etc. Simply plug the 3 prong power cable in the adapter and the 2 prong end into the power outlet.

[pearly]

Interesting advice!  I do have noise in one of my speakers that is dependent on hard drive activity.  I will definitely check this out when I get home.

Thank you! 

[kskreider]

I dont think that sound on your sample was 60hz.  That would be more of a low hum of a ground loop.  This was a higher frequency. 

Cables do weird things from time to time as they make GREAT antennas.  Since moving out west here I have come to the conclusion that the cell phones we use out here causes intermittent noise over speakers.  I hear it in the car, at my desk PC at work and at my PC at home.  Basically anywhere there are speakers.  Now whether or not those sounds are actually picked up in a recording is a totally different story.

[NewHomebrew]

sometimes it's frustrating when this stuff happens.  It sounds like your settings are correct.  S/PDIF in on the soundcard, also make sure you have "48kHz" (if that's your DAT's rate), highest possible latency, and "independent" checked off.

Have you tried another program to record that may use less resources?  I use Wavelab but I'm not sure how it compares to Audition in that respect.  You may have to just go part by part through your chain, maybe it's a bad cable or something.  You might also find someone to help you, I transfer a lot of DATs to PC via coax.

[kskreider]

sometimes it's frustrating when this stuff happens.  It sounds like your settings are correct.  S/PDIF in on the soundcard, also make sure you have "48kHz" (if that's your DAT's rate), highest possible latency, and "independent" checked off.

Have you tried another program to record that may use less resources?  I use Wavelab but I'm not sure how it compares to Audition in that respect.  You may have to just go part by part through your chain, maybe it's a bad cable or something.  You might also find someone to help you, I transfer a lot of DATs to PC via coax.

That is certainly an option.  go get you a "transfer bitch".  :-p
I was one for a festival archivist.  You could imagine the personal advatanges to what amounted to transferring slavery...free copies of everything for your personal collection.  I might add that it is also a lot cheaper than going out and buying a new piece of gear, or several peices, just to get copies made.

...Kk

[pearly]

Maybe I can send you one of my tapes, DarkStarJedi?  I only ask because you live close to me (Bay Area?)  Not sure if you like indie music, but I have about a dozen recordings from different venues in Los Angeles area.

I would also like to know if my DAT deck is recording off-sync or not.  If the tape plays fine on your deck, then it should be fine, otherwise it's off.

Let me know! 

Btw, my post above indicated I used the freeware Audacity from SourceForge.  I don't think it's a software problem, unfortunately...the mystery continues...

[kskreider]

Maybe I can send you one of my tapes, DarkStarJedi?  I only ask because you live close to me (Bay Area?)  Not sure if you like indie music, but I have about a dozen recordings from different venues in Los Angeles area.

I would also like to know if my DAT deck is recording off-sync or not.  If the tape plays fine on your deck, then it should be fine, otherwise it's off.

Let me know! 

Btw, my post above indicated I used the freeware Audacity from SourceForge.  I don't think it's a software problem, unfortunately...the mystery continues...

Sure, man.  Just PM me and I'll help you out.  Not actively seeking out Indie stuff at all, but wtf, anything for ts.com.  Shoot me a PM.

Yes, SF Bay Area.

...Kk

[F.O.Bean]

cant help bud, ive done ALL of my dat transferring from dat>odl-276>jb3 so no clue

[F.O.Bean]

cant help bud, ive done ALL of my dat transferring from dat>odl-276>jb3 so no clue