Topic: join files in samplitude v8 pro

[panther65]

I can't seem to figure out how to join wave files in Samplitude v8 professional. Also, is there a 2gb limit?

[Brian Skalinder]

Why are you trying to join the files, i.e. what are you trying to accomplish?  Perhaps there's a way of accomplishing your goals without joining the files.  Just another way of saying:  I don't know of a way to join files in SAM, never even tried it.    But if working in a Virtual Project, I've never found any need to join file.

As for the 2GB limit, more here:  http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,81091.msg1078238.html#msg1078238

[panther65]

Thanks Brian. Gonna have to get used to this program. I've been using Audacity, but wanted to see if Samplitude had better features, which I think it does.
I copy and paste two files in Audacity to get one large file. If set 1 goes past one hour at 24/96 it splits in the middle of a song and I have to join that to the next file.
If in virtual project mode how does the end of one file seamlessly join the next file so that I can then track it out in cdwave?

[Brian Skalinder]

If in virtual project mode how does the end of one file seamlessly join the next file so that I can then track it out in cdwave?

I don't think you can join files to make a > 2GB file and export it for CD-Wave to track.  The way SAM handles > 2GB files when exporting / bouncing is to create a 2GB WAV file, then a number of "add-on" files, per the link I referenced before.  I don't think CD-Wave supports the "continuous chunk" option that SAM uses create > 2GB filesets.

One of the reasons I use SAM is so I can do everything all in one app, and one non-destructive, object-oriented process:  import into a Virtual Project, apply virtual edits, track, bounce once for 24-bit, and a 2nd time for 16-bit.  Then FLAC.

For tracking in SAM, I think CTRL-ALT-I will drop track markers (don't have the app on my work laptop).  It's on the CD menu, I think.  I find it very easy.  For 24/96, you don't need to worry about SBEs.  And for 16-bit, well...I've yet to figure out how to track w/o SBEs in SAM, so I just fix the SBE's when FLAC'ing.

[terrapinj]

Thanks Brian. Gonna have to get used to this program. I've been using Audacity, but wanted to see if Samplitude had better features, which I think it does.
I copy and paste two files in Audacity to get one large file. If set 1 goes past one hour at 24/96 it splits in the middle of a song and I have to join that to the next file.
If in virtual project mode how does the end of one file seamlessly join the next file so that I can then track it out in cdwave?

it should seamlessly patch the two files - you can click on the icon with the magnet on it and it will automatically but the files back to back when you drag them close to eachother

then do track bouncing to export to a 16/44.1 file

[panther65]

I figured out an easy way to join files or "append" one file to the other. Open both files and then hit appropriately enough "append" and both files will be joined seamlessly.

[Brian Skalinder]

I figured out an easy way to join files or "append" one file to the other. Open both files and then hit appropriately enough "append" and both files will be joined seamlessly.

Go figure!  But how does it save the output of the joined file?  IME, it won't save the joined file - if > 2GB - in a format readable by CD-Wave.

[panther65]

However, now I can't find the second file that I joined to the first. Would it delete my master file?

[Brian Skalinder]

However, now I can't find the second file that I joined to the first. Would it delete my master file?

Shouldn't, unless the output filename matched the 2nd file and you confirmed when asked if you want to overwrite the file.

How did you create the joined file - track bouncing, or export?  Did you output at 24/96?  And if so, did it create a file with extension W01?  And if so, will CD-Wave open the complete joined file (the WAV file + the W01 file together)?  I think the answer to the last is no, but...don't recall if I actually tried or not.

[panther65]

I'll check. Didn't think I chose to overwrite. I know I renamed the file, but I'll have to recheck my settings. Must have missed something there. But the file is gonzo. Luckily, I still have the masters on my cf card.
I didn't bounce, but exported the wave and chose to down-sample and dither. When I get the files re-copied to my hard-drive, I'll re-do and see what went wrong, and try to export the 24/96 file and see what happens.
Is bouncing better? I also have to try the virtual part of Samp. I haven't figured that out yet.

[Brian Skalinder]

Is bouncing better? I also have to try the virtual part of Samp. I haven't figured that out yet.

For simply joining files, I don't think there's a difference between export and bouncing.  Don't have SAM in front of me here, but if memory serves...

Bouncing provides user configuration of the sample rate conversion quality.  There are four options, 1st = lowest, 4th = highest quality.  I forget how they're naned.  It outputs a single track (instead of multiple tracks) with track markers, so you still have to export (with no dither/SRC) to create individual tracks.

Export does not provide user configuration of the sample rate conversion quality.  But I think I tested and determined it uses the 3rd SRC option, i.e. 2nd highest quality (the highest quality is really slow and I didn't hear a difference).  Export also will output individual tracks so you don't have an extra step at the end for track creation.

Virtual Projects are the real heart of SAM.  If you do any editing beyond dither/SRC, this is where you want to do it, in the virtual (and object oriented) realm.  Very powerful stuff, very user-friendly, though a slightly longer learning curve relative to other apps I've used (Audition/CEP, Audacity, wee little bit of WaveLab).

[live2496]

Is bouncing better? I also have to try the virtual part of Samp. I haven't figured that out yet.

Here is how I would track out a project with Samplitude to create 16-bit files which you could flac. You don't need to adjust your original files. And it's possible to do this without bouncing.

First create a virtual project. Then load your audio files into the project using File->Load Audio File . Let's assume that you have multiple 24-bit files and they have seamless breaks. When you load each file it will create an object.

Set "snap on". It's the button with the little magnet. Drag each object to the left and it will jump into position to align perfectly with the object on the left. To move objects around you need to be in "universal mode" or "object and curve mode" and click on the lower half of the object to select it. Then drag it with the mouse.

Now once all your audio is loaded, the next thing you want to do is to split each song into it's own object. This makes it easy to set track markers later. At the beginning of each song, press "t" on the keyboard and this will split the current object at the current cursor position.

Once all objects are split, then from the CD/DVD menu, "Set track indices on object edges". Next, position the cursor at the end and select "Set CD end". (If you have more than 80 minutes of audio you will need to deal with each 74 or 80 minute segment separately. A CD can be any size from 0 to 80 minutes total.)

Then save the project. This is important because the CD audio code reads the project file for information. Now you are ready to burn the CD. Notice, that at this point, no 16-bit files have been created yet and no bounces were required. All changes were made in the VIP and your audio is in it's original format. The VIP determines what happens.

Finally, mark the range from track marker 1 through CD end. Then from the CD menu select "Make CD" and follow the dialog. There are options for dithering and CD burn speed.

Once your CD is created, you can import them into a new project using File->Load Audio CD Tracks or use ExactAudioCopy (which is my favorite for that). This I think is the fastest way to do this. You could also bounce each object to a 16-bit file, but that would take a bit more time.

There are different ways of doing things in the software. I'm not saying this is the only way or the correct way. It's just a quick way (having used the software for a good while I would recommend it).

Each 80 minute or less segment of audio can be dealt with in this manner. All you have to do to make a CD for each part is set your CD markers, set your end CD marker, save the project, mark the range and then and make CD.

Gordon

[panther65]

Boy I can't seem to get the hang of this program. I first tried loading the files via VIP mode. So now I have three files on my module window. The first file has the warm-up act, then DTB for about 10 minutes. The second file has 1.9 gb file and the third is the remainder of the show. I do my edits and bounce, but the bounced file has 1 or 2 second gaps between the two spots in the files where they were cut in my recorder. I don't see the magnet that Gordon talked about on my screen that would enable me to join these three files together.
I also loaded the three files via the non-VIP mode-I guess destructive and was able to join the files without a problem and do my edits, but when I go back and look for my master wav files, they are gone. Only take one is left. I can't figure out how to exit out of the program and keep my master files in this manner. The edited file that I renamed of course is there, but take 01, and take 02 are gone. How do I save the edited file and also not have my master files erased?

[Brian Skalinder]

I first tried loading the files via VIP mode. So now I have three files on my module window. The first file has the warm-up act, then DTB for about 10 minutes. The second file has 1.9 gb file and the third is the remainder of the show. I do my edits and bounce, but the bounced file has 1 or 2 second gaps between the two spots in the files where they were cut in my recorder. I don't see the magnet that Gordon talked about on my screen that would enable me to join these three files together.

It definitely has a steeper learning curve than other tools, but in the end it pays off, IMO.

General tips

With the cursor in Universal Mode (I believe the default, icon on the toolbar looks like a dotted red rectangle over a smaller black rectangle in which resides a blue waveform and next to which is a white arrow/pointer), clicking the top half of the waveform places the cursor, single-clicking the bottom half of the waveform selects the object, clicking and holding the bottom half of the waveform allows dragging / dropping.  Use Ctrl + left-click in the bottom half to select multiple objects, or Ctrl + A to select all objects.  With that in mind...

Add multiple source files, without gaps between them

(I have my toolbar customized, so I'll reference the menu options and/or keystrokes instead of buttons)

Create New Project

• Main Menu:  File | New Virtual Project
• Specify the project name, file path, number of tracks (1), and sample rate

Confirm / Set Configuration

• Main Menu:  View | Snap To | select Objects (should place a tick mark next to the Objects entry in the menu)
• Main Menu:  View | Snap Active (should place a tick mark next to the Snap Active entry in the menu)
• Main Menu:  Edit | Auto Crossfade active (when done, this option should not have a tick mark next to it in the menu)
  
  

Add Files

• Load file A (1st file):  File | Load Audio File (keystroke:  w)
• Left-click and hold the bottom half of the waveform in file A and drag it left as far as it will go (should be left-justified by default, but I included this step just in case)
• Load file B (2nd file):  File | Load Audio File (keystroke:  w)
• Left-click and hold the bottom half of the waveform in file B and drag it until the left edge of file B snaps into place with the right edge of file A (should do this by default, but it depends on where one has placed the cursor)
• Load file C (3rd file):  File | Load Audio File (keystroke:  w)
• Left-click and hold the bottom half of the waveform in file C and drag it until the left edge of file C snaps into place with the right edge of file B (should do this by default, but it depends on where one has placed the cursor)

I also loaded the three files via the non-VIP mode-I guess destructive and was able to join the files without a problem and do my edits, but when I go back and look for my master wav files, they are gone. Only take one is left. I can't figure out how to exit out of the program and keep my master files in this manner. The edited file that I renamed of course is there, but take 01, and take 02 are gone. How do I save the edited file and also not have my master files erased?

I don't do any work in destructive mode, so I can't answer that question specifically other than to say use the Virtual Project mode, which won't change your master files at all.

What edits are you doing?  If you need help, I can try to provide some details on how to accomplish the same edits in the Virtual Project mode.

[live2496]

I do my edits and bounce, but the bounced file has 1 or 2 second gaps between the two spots in the files where they were cut in my recorder. I don't see the magnet that Gordon talked about on my screen that would enable me to join these three files together.

It sounds like you are almost there, but you just need "snap to" set to on. Here is a picture of my toolbar, which is the default one you get when you install. Also, you will probably want auto-crossfade turned off. That's the button to the right next to the snap (magnet) button. It says "auto".



Another way to set these options is when you create a new project. There is a button in that dialog called "Project Options". You can turn "snap to" on and "auto-crossfade" off there.



Once that you have "snap to" set, your objects will jump into place as you drag them to the left.
This is sample accurate. I do this all the time when testing rectangular wave files recorded with Live2496.
You can either jump to (snap to) an object or to the cursor. Also, this is how I align a bounced file on one track so as to align it to the original file on another track. You just keep the cursor at that position and drag it until it snaps in place.

[panther65]

Brian and Gordon, you are treasures among us here. You have been so helpful not just for me here in this thread, but many other times.
Yes, the snap-to button has worked for me. Now, I will fool around with my edits etc. I really don't do any heavy editing, but for this recent Derek Trucks show I wanted to make the vocals and mid/highs come alive a bit more, so I boosted by 7db at 5khz and it made the recording come alive. I like the mixer module in Samp. Also will use the de-hisser feature as some board patches have a bit of residual hiss occasionally.  Also, looking for the best way to take out a hum that you sometimes hear either from the board or most times from the equipment on stage. Thanks again!

[live2496]

Great! I'm glad we could help you get started.

Now that you are using objects, you can eq in each object or in the mixer section. And your changes are virtual. They just apply to realtime playback or bounces. So you can leave your original tracks as is if you want to.

[panther65]

OK, so I can now join the files using snap-to. I loaded my 24 bit files via VIP and they are joined. I placed a track marker by hitting "t" before each song. So I now have tracked out the file. I bounced the file, but it created just another file. How do I get individual tracks outputted for flacing, or burning to cd in wav format?
Also, please clarify what to do with a 24 bit file that is over 2gb? I see that it made a 1.9 gb file and another W01 file. How do I work with these files?

[live2496]

Samplitude will burn a CD straight from the VIP. If you want to create 16-bit files to share your recordings you have two ways that I can think of to do that.

1) make a CD with Samplitude and then use ExactAudioCopy to extract the tracks from the CD. When making a CD you don't have to worry about managing sector boundaries. The software handles it.

or 2) mark the range of each object and bounce each one to a 16-bit file.

What to do with the 24-bit files? You don't really have to do anything with them. Your project will read them to produce any other files that you require.

Regarding files: When you import audio into Samplitude it creates a graphics file (.H0), and also an hard disc project (.HDP) file for each audio file that you read in. This is true if it's just a file you open for destructive processing, or using the virtual project. The HDP files were a carryover from the original implementation of Samplitude. The VIP was added later as a way to manage multiple HDP files that were related in a project, with each HDP file becoming an object. So, the VIP manages multiple HDP files which in turn manage the .WAV files. This is how they get around the 2gb file limit in windows audio files. The .HDP structure does that.

[panther65]

OK, I think I have the 16 bit part down alright. But when I import 2 or more 24/96 files into samp and then track, edit, etc. and bounce it gives me a W01 file in addition to the 1.9gb wave file. I know Brian addressed that but I didn't quite understand. How do I make 24 bit flacs from the wav file and the W01 file?

[Brian Skalinder]

OK, I think I have the 16 bit part down alright. But when I import 2 or more 24/96 files into samp and then track, edit, etc. and bounce it gives me a W01 file in addition to the 1.9gb wave file. I know Brian addressed that but I didn't quite understand. How do I make 24 bit flacs from the wav file and the W01 file?

It appears that you're creating one big, long WAV file that's larger than 2GB, hence the initial WAV file + the additional W01 file.  To make FLACs, you want to create individual 24-bit tracks instead of a single, large file.  There are several ways to do this, and at least a couple can be used the same way for both 24- or 16-bit output.  The two options I've used (though there are probably more ways to do it, as evidenced by Gordon's comments )...

Note:  the following options assume you've already defined track markers for the virtual project, either by <a> adding the track markers directly via main menu CD/DVD | Set Track (keystroke Ctrl+Alt+I) or <b> splitting objects via main menu Object | Split Objects (keystroke T) and then creating track indices on object edges via main menu CD/DVD | Set Track Indices on Object Edges.

Option 1 - Export Audio

This option does not allow you to specify the quality of the sample rate conversion (SRC).  SAM SE (I assume it's the same in Pro, but not certain) provides 4 different levels of quality for SRC, from lowest to highest:  High, Very High, Ultra High 1, Ultra High 2.  The SRC quality used in the Export Audio option is Very High.

• Main Menu:  File | Export Audio | WAV (keystroke:  Ctrl+E)
  
• Specify the path and filename for the exported WAVs (SAM will add _01, _02, _03 to the end of the filename specified as it creates individual tracks based on your track markers)
• In the Range section, select the Export complete project radio button.
  
• In the Files section dropdown (bottom right), select 2. Each CD-Track in a file (from track marker to track marker in a file)
  
• Press the Format Settings button
  
• In the Samplerate dropdown, select the desired sample rate (I assume 44.1kHz for 16-bit and 96 kHz for 24-bit).
  
• In the Format list, select the desired bit-depth and sample rate combination (all sample rates in the list should reflect the value you selected in the Samplerate dropdown, so you're really just selecting the bit-depth here).  Based on what you've wrote in this thread, I assume you'll want 441000 Hz;  16-bit;  Stereo for your 16-bit output and 96000 Hz;  24-bit;  Stereo, for your 24-bit output.
  
• Press the Dithering button and choose your Dithering Mode.  I usually use the Dithering with triangular spread noise radio button using a Dither Depth in Bits value of 1.0.
  
• Press OK to close the Dithering Options window.
  
• Press OK to close the Choose WAV Codec window.
  
• Press the Export button to initiate the export.
  
  

Once completed, you should have individual tracks, of the bit-depth and sample rate you selected above.  For 16-bit, you'll want to use the "Fix SBEs" option when FLAC-ing your files, as I haven't found a way to create 16-bit tracks in SAM without SBEs present.  I've tried what I think should work - using the CD MSF unit of measurement and snapping the cursor / track markers / object splits to grid/frames - but haven't had success.  Hopefully I figure this out, though it's not a big deal as it's easy to fix SBEs in FLAC FrontEnd.

Option 2 - Track Bouncing (internal Mixdown) + Export Audio

This option does allow you to specify the quality of the sample rate conversion (SRC).

• Main Menu:  Tools | Track Bouncing (internal Mixdown).
  
• In the Trackbouncing window's Format section, select the Wave radio button.
  
• Then specify the following Wave format values:  bit-depth (presumably 16- or 24-bit), Sample rate, and (Sample rate) Quality.  FWIW, I usually use a Quality value of Ultra High 1.
  
• In the Source section, select the From VIP Start to last Object End radio button.
  
• In the Generation Options section, select the Only a Wave Project radio button.
  
• In the Options section, press the Dithering Options button.
  
• In the Dithering Options window, choose your Dithering Mode.  I usually use the Dithering with triangular spread noise radio button using a Dither Depth in Bits value of 1.0.
  
• Press OK to close the Dithering Options window.
  
• Press OK to close the Trackbouncing window.
  
• In the Choose Name for Wave Project window that opens, specify the path and filename of the file you'd like to create. 
  
  

Unlike the Export Audio process previously used, Track Bouncing (internal Mixdown) will not create individual tracks from the track markers.  Once the Track Bouncing (internal Mixdown) process finishes, SAM will automatically open the bounced WAV file of the bit-depth and sample rate specified above, including track markers.  Now, we create the individual tracks, similar to the way we did in the Export Audio option above...

• Main Menu:  File | Export Audio | WAV (keystroke:  Ctrl+E)
  
• Specify the path and filename for the exported WAVs (SAM will add _01, _02, _03 to the end of the filename specified as it creates individual tracks based on your track markers)
• In the Range section, select the Export complete project radio button.
  
• In the Files section dropdown (bottom right), select 2. Each CD-Track in a file (from track marker to track marker in a file)
  
• Press the Format Settings button
  
• Select the desired Samplerate (presumably 44.1 kHz for 16-bit files and 96 kHz for 24-bit files assuming you want to retain the high sample rate from the master recordings in the 24-bit files).  The default value for this field should be the sample rate specified during the Track Bouncing (internal Mixdown) process above.
  
• In the Format list, select the desired bit-depth and sample rate combination (all sample rates in the list should reflect the value specified during the Track Bouncing (internal Mixdown) process above).  Select the option that matches the sample rate and bit-depth of the file we processed above in the Track Bouncing (internal Mixdown) process above.  In other words, if you bounced to 16/44 above, select 441000 Hz;  16-bit;  Stereo and if you bounced to 24/96 above, select 96000 Hz;  24-bit;  Stereo.
  
• No need to press the Dithering button and choose your Dithering Mode.  Since you've already dithered via the Track Bouncing (internal Mixdown) process above, and SAM isn't actually performing any processing on the file - assuming the sample rate and bit-depth you've defined above match the sample rate and bit-depth of the actual file - it won't perform sample rate conversion or dither, so the quality settings for sample rate conversion and dither don't matter.
  
• Press OK to close the Dithering Options window.
  
• Press OK to close the Choose WAV Codec window.
  
• Press the Export button to initiate the export.
  
  

Once completed, just like the previous process, you should have individual tracks, of the bit-depth and sample rate you selected above.  For 16-bit, you'll want to use the "Fix SBEs" option when FLAC-ing your files, as I haven't found a way to create 16-bit tracks in SAM without SBEs present.  I've tried what I think should work - using the CD MSF unit of measurement and snapping the cursor / track markers / object splits to grid/frames - but haven't had success.  Hopefully I figure this out, though it's not a big deal as it's easy to fix SBEs in FLAC FrontEnd.

Option 2 may seem like a lot more effort, but really, it's quite easy and fast to get through once you've done it a couple times.  The only real difference between these options, as noted abofe:  Option 2 provides the ability to specify the SRC quality, while Option 1 always uses Very High SRC quality.

[panther65]

When I take my 24 bit flacs and drag them into Lplex, it says "cannot decode flac file". I selected "dehisser" in the mixer if that has anything to do with it. I have been having no problems since Brian detailed the workflow. There must be some setting that I'm missing. I had to download a new version on another computer as my laptop crashed and there must be something I'm missing. The waves are the correct bit rate and the waves encode to flac without any problem. The problem comes when I try to make a .iso file in Lplex from my 24 bit flacs. Lplex has worked for me without problems before. Thanks.

[panther65]

I'm a little bit stumped here. I track and bounce then export as wav 1n 24/96. But when I flac and then try to drag the files into Lplex, it either says that I don't have a viable format or "unable to decode flac file". Then I dragged the wav file into cdwav and selected "select alternate 24 bit format" and then the wav is able to be decoded in Lplex, but not the flac. When dragging a flac file into Lplex it starts to decode, but after 10-15% it says "unable to decode flac file". Any help would be appreciated.