Topic: PT: 2 - New Marantz PMD661

[rich]

yup.  just what ^ said

[datbrad]

I asked this in the Team 661 board and haven't had a reply, so I thought I would try here. 

What Oade Mod would you recommend for Someone who runs Busman BSC1's, and records a variety of Music styles?  Everything from, solo acoustic to REALLY LOUD ROCK.  Thanks in advance for your help.

well, not the super-mod (as that's intended for recording very quiet sounds only).  So that leaves you with a choice of either the warm mod or the concert mod.  Either mod will be fine for recording a wide variety of music, because the PMD-661 has a lot of options in regards to input sensitivity.  For example, I mostly record loud music, and I pretty keep the input sensitivity on -18dB.  If I was going to record very quiet music, I could change that to -12dB, -6dB, or 0dB, depending on my guess of what the situation called for.  So, because both the concert mod or the warm mod will be fine for a wide variety of music, it becomes an issue of what you prefer, and what would be a better match with the Busman mics.  I'm not familiar enough with the Busman mics to know which would be a better match.  Generally speaking, the concert mod is more transparent while the warm mod adds a bit of low end color to the sound.  If the Busman mics are more on the lean/thin side of the sound spectrum, perhaps the warm mod would be a better fit.  but if the Busman mics have their own color and you want more transparent gear after the mics, then the concert mod is the way to go.

hope this helps.

Agree with everything above.

I mentioned this somewhere in this thread, but Doug gave me a great reference for the differences between the warm and concert mods. He said the concert mod would be comparable sounding to his M248 preamp, while the warm mod would favor the sound of his M148 preamp.

I know a couple of guys that have run the Busman mics using Busman modded recorders, both the warm and transparent versions, and I just talked to one of them and he told me that his feeling is that a warm mod would make the busmans sound too muddy.

I agree, so my advice is go with the concert mod. Also, the odds are that any future mic upgrades you might make would fit with the concert mod better than the warm. I got the warm mod 661 specifically to offset the tendency of the older style AKG 460s that I run to sound too bright, and needing a little filling out in the low end.

You will love this recorder, regardless.

Good luck !!

PS:

I listed this one in the kickdown, but also thought to list it here for the Team. This is one of the better recordings I have pulled with my warm mod 661 this year, and thought someone here might want to grab it just to hear it. It's line in from my mono preamps, but you can at least judge the line in sound I am getting.

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=526694

Hope you like it.

[Rleeee]

Thank's for your input.  I ordered the Concert MOD today.

[Rleeee]

My 661 arrived yesterday.  I was wondering which is better to use, the attenuator in the recorder, or the one on the Mic's?

[JasonSobel]

I'd start with just the setting on the deck.  Keep in mind that if the gain knob on the 661 is at "4" or below, the analog inputs can overload, even if your digital levels aren't over -0dBfs.  So if you set the deck at -12dB, and you need to lower the gain knob below 4, change the setting on the deck to -18dB.  If the deck is already set to -18dB, and you still need to have the gain knob at 4 or below, then switch on the attenuator on the mics.

[taosmay]

Looks like I too am buying one of these decks, also the concert mod from Doug. I already own Busman BSC1's. I have very limited experience using mic cables. Does this sound like a good idea/purchase: A set of 15' cables with RA stubbie female xlr's coming out of the mic's at the 6pm position, and standard male xlr's, going into the 661(via Darktrain) ? Should I consider anything other than standard straight male xlr's, for the 661? That is how I would use them BSC1's > 661. Thanks

Harold

[cottle]

Sounds like a plan.  I have Right angle stubbies on mine (male), but only because my bag is small, and the stubbies allow me to zip up the top while everything is plugged in/rolling.  Robb's cables are hard to beat for the price.  If you ever plan on running split omnis, just let Robb know to leave enough slack in the cables to allow for the split.  The pair I have doesn't have quite enough slack to allow for a 3' split. 

[datbrad]

Sounds like a plan.  I have Right angle stubbies on mine (male), but only because my bag is small, and the stubbies allow me to zip up the top while everything is plugged in/rolling.  Robb's cables are hard to beat for the price.  If you ever plan on running split omnis, just let Robb know to leave enough slack in the cables to allow for the split.  The pair I have doesn't have quite enough slack to allow for a 3' split. 

As a follow up, I can report that regular Neutrix RA male connectors don't seem to work well on the 661. The input jacks are too close together, so the RA connectors bind against each other, which is not a good thing. Go either straight normal XLR, or get custom stubbie RA ends if that is what you need.

[cottle]

I'd start with just the setting on the deck.  Keep in mind that if the gain knob on the 661 is at "4" or below, the analog inputs can overload, even if your digital levels aren't over -0dBfs.  So if you set the deck at -12dB, and you need to lower the gain knob below 4, change the setting on the deck to -18dB.  If the deck is already set to -18dB, and you still need to have the gain knob at 4 or below, then switch on the attenuator on the mics.

Thank you Jason.  This may be the issue I ran into at Mule two weeks ago.  I originally thought that it was just the omnis accentuating the low-end, but perhaps I was overloading when the bass drum was hit.  My levels were peaking at around only -6dB, and the rec level knob was around 4.  Then again, it could be a combination of the two factors, or something else entirely.  Either way, thanks for the heads-up.

[JasonSobel]

I'd start with just the setting on the deck.  Keep in mind that if the gain knob on the 661 is at "4" or below, the analog inputs can overload, even if your digital levels aren't over -0dBfs.  So if you set the deck at -12dB, and you need to lower the gain knob below 4, change the setting on the deck to -18dB.  If the deck is already set to -18dB, and you still need to have the gain knob at 4 or below, then switch on the attenuator on the mics.

Thank you Jason.  This may be the issue I ran into at Mule two weeks ago.  I originally thought that it was just the omnis accentuating the low-end, but perhaps I was overloading when the bass drum was hit.  My levels were peaking at around only -6dB, and the rec level knob was around 4.  Then again, it could be a combination of the two factors, or something else entirely.  Either way, thanks for the heads-up.

take a look at the wave files in any editor.  compare it to the screen shot here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,112681.msg1589949.html#msg1589949
if you see any portions that look clipped, but are well below 0dBfs, that's the clear sign that you brickwalled and overloaded the analog circuitry before the signal got the A/D.

[taosmay]

Thanks for your suggestion on using straight normal male xlr's going into the 661, DATBRAD.

Probably kind a dumb question, but anyone want to suggest a size /type of gear bag, for my small/limited gear: busman bsc1's/cables/ pmd 661/batteries/cards, anyone have one for sale?

[cottle]

^Search in the yard sale for keyword "gear bag".  Someone (I forget who) had several different ones for sale within the last month or so.  I remember Gear Bag Extravaganza was the name of the thread.

For no more gear than you have, a small camera bag should work fine.  That's what I use.  They've got plenty of pockets/dividers, and everything is well padded.  You can find one for $25 or so brand new on ebay (or elsewhere).  The LowePro all weather series is nice because each bag includes a rainfly.  These are slightly more expensive than a regular camera bag, but the first time someone spills a beer on your gear, or you're caught in a torrential downpour at an outdoor show, it will have been worth it.

[Rleeee]

Where would the Oade concert mod PMD661 AD/ Pre, fit in this list?

V3
V2
UA5
AD-20

[audBall]

Much better than the UA5 but not quite a V3, but damn close. 

[datbrad]

Where would the Oade concert mod PMD661 AD/ Pre, fit in this list?

V3
V2
UA5
AD-20

It would not really fit at all into your list, since none of these are all-in-one recorders.

That being said, there are still some comparisons you can make to help you decide on getting a modded 661. According to Doug, and as I mentioned earlier in this thread, the concert mod shares the sound quality of his M248 preamp, and the warm mod shares the sound quality of his M148 preamp. If you collect recordings, you must certainly have tapes where each of these preamps are used and that can be your preamp reference.

Most of the flash recorder brands share the same 24 bit AD chipset within their model line, so that portion in the 661 is likely exactly the same as the one in the PMD671, which is a really good A/D, and there are a ton of recordings in circulation to listen to how that A/D sounds.

Technically, the V3 is the only 24 bit preamp A/D combo on your list, and still a great way to go, paired with any 24 bit recorder with a digital input, that can be used as a bit bucket.

Good Luck!!