Topic: V3 clicks and pops

[whitenite]

Posted this on the Oade boards as well -

Was wondering if anyone has had this problem with the v3.  Have the
following sources for DMB from the other night:

mkh800s > v3 > ntrack (24/48)
mkh800s > v3 (analog out) > mme > m1 (16/48)

both have the clicks, which incline me to believe it is from the v3.
ran the levels a little hot, but not overly aggressive.  the clicks
only occur on the peaks (not implying they were all overs; only a few were).  an otherwise flawless recording.  These mics have an average SPL tolerance, but an extremely high sensitivity threshold and frequency
range.  Because of this, I have the -20 dB input attenuation set on the V3.   Any ideas?

[rabhan]

where were your levels on the v3 and on the m1 and on the ntrack when you got these pops?

[Joe w.]

sounds like some brick walling. I assume you ran the levels on the v3 all the way up because of the -20? If so, this is most likely the problem. Try to duplicate the situation at home using the same settings and see if you get the error. then turn off the -20 and bring those levels down and I'll bet you won't have the issue.

[F.O.Bean]

it would have to be some HEAVY brickwalling....D and I ran that thing about 15db too high, oooooooops, but NO posp and clicks......

[Brian Skalinder]

Have you been able to reproduce the results at home in testing?

Have you been able to reproduce the results at home in testing with different microphones?

Were the V3 and MMe calibrated so levels were the same going into both ADCs?

Are the pops/clicks in identical locations on the recordings from both the V3 and MMe ADCs?  Or is it just that both recordings exhibit the same sympton, but not in identical locations?

Can you tell if the clicks occur on peaks or only on overs?

[rabhan]

i have ran the v3 so that i have gotten very few red lights and the recording was clean. i have also ran the v3 and gotten the red lights to stay on and i got pops and crackles. this both in the field and testing at home. you can overload the v3 if you crank the shit out of it.

[DaryanLenz]

I dunno...Bean is right, we ran that sucker really, really high and no audible cracks or pops anywhere on the recordings at all!  Dancing red lights for a couple of songs for sure!



Daryan

[dmonterisi]

keep in mind there is a difference between bricking the v3 pre and overloading the v3 a/d (which is gonna happen when there are red lights coming on, signal from the pre being too hot)...bricking happens at peaks in the music but where there are not overs at the a/d stage...you've overloaded the pre stage...that's the most likely scenario, imo, as pointed out by joe...

[rabhan]

so how do you brick a pre?  how can you run the pre too hot? i thought the lights on the v3 were for the pre stage, no? so if the lights stay at -5 as the peaks, how can the pre get bricked?

[dmonterisi]

no, i'm pretty sure the lights on the v3 measure the levels at the a/d stage since they max out at 0 dBFS (which is the digital measurement)...i don't fully understand bricking the pre myself but if the spl coming in to the pre is very hot, the preamp circuitry can be overloaded...this is why the sony portables have problems when you run them mic-in...the pre stage overloads easily...when this is the case, if you apply too much gain, the pre overloads and you don't approach overs on the a/d, but it sounds like muffled clipping (it's really an awful sound).  i think this might happen here because with the 20 db pad on the v3 engaged, he may have had to apply a lot of gain to get the levels where he wanted on the a/d...however, at peaks in the music, it was probably overloaded the pre-amp circuitry...i'm not exactly sure if this is correct, but it's my best guess.

[rabhan]

why would anyone use the hpf switched on the v3 or pads on their bodies? this is something i have never understood.  please explain.  

[dmonterisi]

the HPF can be valuable to roll off the bass in certain circumstances, such as running omnis or subcards, especially close to the PA...the bass in the omnis can kill a recording.

The pad is helpful for high spl taping or you will clearly brick the pre.  the soundfield needs to be run with a pad when taping a PA.  the pad inside the v3 (gotta adjust jumpers) is so that it can accept professional line-level signals (such as from a board) which are +4dbs, as oppposed to the -10dbs signal that i believe most mics produce.  my number may be mistaken but i believe there is a 14 db (analog measurement this time) difference.  a lot of people who run 148>v3 will put the 20db pad on on the v3, while others don't.

[rabhan]

ohhh, so that how i could have run v3>v3 without the 15db variance, dammit. i wonder if the ua5 has a switch to kill the xlr inputs 20db gain, hrmmm, may need to call oade about that.

[Joe w.]

i think this might happen here because with the 20 db pad on the v3 engaged, he may have had to apply a lot of gain to get the levels where he wanted on the a/d...however, at peaks in the music, it was probably overloaded the pre-amp circuitry...i'm not exactly sure if this is correct, but it's my best guess.

that's what I was thinking. I experienced this same effect when I ran DPA 4061's > SBM-1 > D-8. mic in was obviously too hot and when running line in I couldn't really crank the sbm-1 all the way up or below 4 with out bricking it. I talked to a few folks about it and I was told that running at one extreme or the other was not good.

[F.O.Bean]

very interesting thread.....