Topic: one better OR two lesser video cameras - what would you recommend?

[ozarkbilly]

I'm in the market for a minidv camera or possibly two for shooting concerts.  If you had nothing and were wanting to start shooting concerts on a budget of $600 or so, would you prefer to have one 'better' camera or two 'good' cameras?

I'm specifically looking at the Canon HV20 (looks like I can snag one for ~$500 with some watching on Ebay) or the Panasonic GS300 (looks like I could snag TWO for ~$500 to $550 total on ebay).

Opinions?  Or other suggestions?  They'll primarily be used for shooting concerts in clubs/smaller venues.

EDIT: perhaps 'better' wasn't the best word to use in the title, how about 'more expensive'?

[rastasean]

Well when I wanted to do a documentary, that I never did, I wanted two to three cameras in order to have different points of view, but also needed to then have three extra people. Plus me to record the sound. Are you planning of having these cameras stationary or are you going to have people recording with you?
When I was going to look at cameras, I went to pawn shops. All I wanted was HI8 and for it to have mic in--just in case I wanted to record to the tape. You know how hard it was to find that? I didn't find one I really liked and could work with.
I have only heard good things of the GS300 and plus the lens on it is really good too.

Let us know what you think.

[ozarkbilly]

Well when I wanted to do a documentary, that I never did, I wanted two to three cameras in order to have different points of view, but also needed to then have three extra people. Plus me to record the sound. Are you planning of having these cameras stationary or are you going to have people recording with you?
When I was going to look at cameras, I went to pawn shops. All I wanted was HI8 and for it to have mic in--just in case I wanted to record to the tape. You know how hard it was to find that? I didn't find one I really liked and could work with.
I have only heard good things of the GS300 and plus the lens on it is really good too.

Let us know what you think.

Well, my plan, if I have two cams available, is to have one static shot on a tripod centered farther back from the stage, and then use the other to roam nearer the stage.  In smaller places/smaller crowds, I could feasibly accomplish this alone, as long as I kept one eye on the tripod-mounted cam.  In larger and/or sketchier places I would almost certainly not try it without having someone at the tripod.  In reality, I would almost always have a buddy or at least an acquaintance available to either stay with the static cam or roam with the other.  Since I'm on a budget and just sold (most of) my audio taping rig, I'm going to see if I can get satisfactory (to me) results with on-board mics. 

[stantheman1976]

I have a Panasonic PV-GS300, 320, and 400.  They are all very good cameras.  The HV20 has a single CMOS sensor compared to the 3 CCD sensors on the Pannys.  The CMOS is larger in size so it allows more light giving it a slight advantage in really low light situations.  As long as there is decent lighting the Panasonics will fare nicely and you'll be pleased. 

One of the guys over at pana3ccduser.com has been filming a bunch of live bands with 2-3 Panasonics.  Here are some clips from him on Vimeo:
http://vimeo.com/user404213/videos/sort:date

[ozarkbilly]

I've got a pair of CA-11 mics that haven't sold yet.  Would these be usable at all with either of the models I've mentioned here, with some sort of a t-mount setup used in conjunction with them?  Or do you have to use mics that supply their own power?

[stantheman1976]

The camera can provide a small voltage.  No different than going mic in on a recorder.  I don't know the voltage measurement off hand.  Obviously it would ideal to record audio separately and sync up later but if you're running solo that's hard to do.  I have a Sony MS-908c which is a decent external mic.  I'm trying to get some money for an AT822.

[willndmb]

i would go 2 cams at this point myself

[fanofthemule]

I'd go with the two panasonics.  I own two of the 300's and one of the 150's and like them all very much.  The majority of concert filming I do are from the same spot on the same tripod.  I've got a bogen flex arm attached to the tripod for the stagnant shot and I use the tripod fluid head to pan and zoom with the second camera.  Just remember to put something under your tripod to avoid the shakes / vibrations that can come from the venue floor.

Here's a quick sample of two cameras from the same spot, both cameras were Panasonic PV-GS300

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQc6O2lJLUU

[ozarkbilly]

Here's a quick sample of two cameras from the same spot, both cameras were Panasonic PV-GS300

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQc6O2lJLUU

that inspires me greatly.  Thank you!   +Ts all around for the helpful advice so far

[rastasean]

Here's a quick sample of two cameras from the same spot, both cameras were Panasonic PV-GS300

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQc6O2lJLUU

damn, that's nice video! I was a GS300 now!

[saltman]

I would go with one of the highest quality cameras you can afford.  There is no point in having twice as much footage when it is black and unusable.

No comment on those cameras.

[rastasean]

No comment on those cameras.

well can you comment on A camera?

[Krispy D]

i would go 2 cams at this point myself

I have done quite a few multi track aud>multi cam vid dvds and I agree.  More angles (even at lesser quality) will make a better video.  Than a static image.

[ozarkbilly]

I would go with one of the highest quality cameras you can afford.  There is no point in having twice as much footage when it is black and unusable.

No comment on those cameras.

Thank you for the input.  It looks like black and unusable won't be an issue with the GS300/320 though.  Any distinct advantages/disadvantages between these two?

[stantheman1976]

GS300 has a mic input, 320 doesn't.  300 also has an internal auto open/close lens cap.  320 has a regular lens cap.  Pretty much the same other than that. 

[Low Spark]

I have a Panasonic GS320 and Sony PC100 and love them both. If you look around you can get a good deal on the 320. They are discontinueing the 320 model. I got mine at CC for 250 with a 3 year extended warranty.

[stantheman1976]

If you will be running an external audio source each time go with the 320 since it's so inexpensive right now.  If you want to use an external mic with the camera go for the 300.

[beatkilla]

Yes i've seen really good stuff with the panasonic 300....my friend has a 320 and correct me if i'm wrong but you can not control the exposure,which is a deal breaker if so.

[stevetoney]

I also vote going with two camera's.  I shot an event and had both camera's on tripods.  What I did was moved between the two tripods to do my raw video shooting.  Obviously, while you're at one of the tripods, you do your zooms and pans and closeups with that one.  When you move away from that tripod, you zoom out a little bit and leave that as a static shot, but zoomed out so you aren't missing too much action.

Doing it this way keeps a great dynamic going on with the final mixed down video.  For one, the static shot is never always the left or the right camera.  For two, the zooms and pans are never from the same right or left angle. 

This takes work and you can get kinda tired by the end of a show because you're running back and forth between cameras every 5 to 10 minutes.  However, the results are EXTREMELY rewarding.  Obviously, it's probably best if you have two camera operators, but the problem there is that both operators need to be kinda synched with their filming techniques on how they capture the video, how they do pans, and zooms.  If their technique is very different, then that can be obvious in the final mix too.

I personally wouldn't worry about whether or not the camera you buy has audio input.  I'd get a recorder and run your audio completely off camera so that you don't have to worry about hooking up any mics or whatever into your camera (with cords to trip over and extra crap connected to the camera).  The reason is that since you're gonna be mixing two separate video sources anyway, the audio will need to be stripped off from the video anyway, so you're gonna need to sync up the audio with both video's regardless. 

So I just run my audio separate into my audio rig, which is higher quality audio that way anyway.

BTW, this is VERY fun and very rewarding to do.  Also, in order to do this, you'll need to get your hands on Vegas or some other high quality video editing software.

[ozarkbilly]

Well after all the very convincing arguments to get two cams in my price range, I couldn't resist dropping $450 BIN - $90 (from live.com 20% discount) for a total of $360 on a Canon HV20.  Looks like way too nice of a camera to say no  at that price .  And if that seller does it again in a month or two I'll grab another 

[rastasean]

Well after all the very convincing arguments to get two cams in my price range, I couldn't resist dropping $450 BIN - $90 (from live.com 20% discount) for a total of $360 on a Canon HV20.  Looks like way too nice of a camera to say no  at that price .  And if that seller does it again in a month or two I'll grab another 

that sounds like the way to do it! At least right now you will have something to film and you can work on saving your pennies for a new camera soon.
What kind of video editing software are you going to be using?

You know what sucks? I bought a firewire card for my computer to use with the jb3 and a video camera I have. The firewire card and computer DO NOT WORK. I've googled and doodled for hours trying to fix it but it appears as if the card does not like service pack 2 or 3 at all. I've found drivers from service pack 1 to use but they still don't load correctly. Anyone have advice for a firewire card that will work with XP Home service pack 3?

Thanks,
sean

[ozarkbilly]

Finally got my HV20 in the mail today.  Low LOW Buy It Now price from a guy with somewhat sketchy feedback all worked out in the end.  What a cool little camera!  Much smaller than I had expected  .  I'm gonna have some fun with this thing...