Topic: Cardioid Move... from the CA-14's to...

[adrianf74]

Hey Everyone,

I remember asking about moving from my old SP-CMC-8's (AT-933/c) to CA-14's.  Been thinking about my "next move" for my cardioid mics as I'm good on the omni front (running DPA 4061s).  Currently running a Church Audio 9100 preamp (and a Church Audio Ugly Preamp for the DPA's to adjust for the 2dB difference in the mics).  Recorder Bit Bucket is a trusty M10.  **These will be for indoor use as I'll run the DPA's outdoors**

I know everybody here will talk budget and this is something I'll leave a little "open."  On the other hand, my setup will be for anything that isn't open as I have a friend who has AKG 480's with CK61/63's.  I keep drooling whenever I see Schoeps MK41's with a CMR and a TinyBox but don't know if I want to drop $1500+ on a mics, preamp, and cabling (maybe in the summer or after the summer season's over and there are some deals to be found).

So, I know there are mics like the Sennheiser MKE40's (aka MM-HSLC-1) that are worth looking at; I'm just wondering what they're like compared to the CA-14's.  And if not the MKE40's, then what?  I know some people here talk of Audix mics with church audio active cables.   My thought is that if I'm gonna make a jump, I want it to be worthwhile.  Maybe some of the regulars here can through some food for thought out there for me.

TIA.

[hi and lo]

There are no good lowpro cardioid options between CA-14s and MK4s. I completely agree with you that your next jump should be worthwhile and I just can't think of any affordable solutions that are worth a crap. Unfortunately, an MK4/41 setup is going to be $2500+, not $1500+.

FYI, an m10 is not a bitbucket. Unless I'm crazy (which is certainly possible) that term only applies to small hand-held recorders with a digital input.

[nicegrin]

Some options worth looking into... (all above $1K for sure):

* Schoeps MK4/MK41 active setup
* Neumann AK40/AK50 active setup
* AKG CK 61/63s actives
* Beyerdynamics CK930/CK950s
* DPA 402x
* Milab VM 44 links

BR,
N.

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Some options worth looking into... (all above $1K for sure):

* Schoeps MK4/MK41 active setup
* Neumann AK40/AK50 active setup
* DPA 402x


* AKG CK 61s actives
* Beyerdynamics CK930/CK950s
* Milab VM 44 links

A used set of both 930 and 950 caps (inc cabling, etc) can be had for a little over $2k.

I don't think there is anything short of the ck61 actives in the sub 1k line that is worth jumping from the CA-14 caps, and people have been waiting on the akg remote capsule offerings for a while now. The beyers and milabs hover around 1k or more and I personally like both over the AKGs, but that's not sub 1k.

You can essentially lump condenser remote cap systems into two groups. The really expensive (first group), and the sort of expensive (second group).

edit: clarifying statement.

[Gutbucket]

Do the tinyboxes support AKG caps? if so, that may be an option.
Busman actives are another option, I've never used them and unsure how they compare to the CA-14.

I've been wondering about the DPA miniature supercardioid hanging choir mics, 4098 I think they are. They appear to be similar to their instrument mounted 4099 with higher sensitivity, possibly a less rolled off low end response (which is probably the issue to check into with these).  One user here has modified 4099s and really likes them as high-quality miniature directionals.  Worth inquiring about.  I'm quite curious myself.  Should be available for under $1000 a pair same powering, cabling and conectors as the 4061 so they would use your existing preamps.

[WiFiJeff]

>> One user here has modified 4099s and really likes them as high-quality miniature directionals.

That would be me.  Now you can buy them directly in the "correct" croakiable form factor as 4081s.  I have been using them for almost three years, sometimes alone but usually re-inforced by bass from a pair of 4063s low passed to try to compensate the roll off on the low end of the 4081s (as per the frequency plot on the DPA site, at 1 meter, when I started they only gave the bass roll-off for much closer distances and I had to play around, mostly added too much bass). 

A friend used to do much the same events as I, using MK4s > active cable > limoSax > SD702, presenting a tank-like presence (this is hardly a low-profile rig).  He preferred my tapes, though I think his were better.  I could duplicate the rig, but decline to try on the very wierd clown suit I'd have to wear to use it.

Jeff

[hi and lo]

I retract my previous statement. An AKG CK1x setup would be worth pursuing, either with a TB or with a PFA.

[acidjack]

I generally agree with the others and I wasted my time trying a lot of "interim" steps.

I did like my AKG ck9x active setup pretty well, and it was, I thought, a true step up from smaller mics, but it was also a custom-made solution.  Those aren't around much.  Similarly, any of the AKG active solutions being contemplated in that thread could run "only" around $1k.  If you could find a ck1x setup, even better.

The active setups that still require bodies in the chain are obviously less stealthy - Busman actives (still $899, and I'll be honest, at that price, I'd pass), Beyer 930/950, Milabs, MBHOs.  May not be a huge issue for you, but it certainly is less compact than what I'd call the gold standard in very lowpro setups, either the DPA 402x or Schoeps and the various solutions they offer.

If the Beyers can run w/o bodies with a tinybox (I believe they can), that is a legitimately good setup that is way better than CA-14s, doesn't require bodies, and costs a lot less than Schoeps.  Maybe some of the Beyer guys can confirm whether Jon has actually produced a full Beyer>tinybox rig - I know it's been discussed.

Also worth noting, but also needing bodies, Neumann KM140s have been going for a lot cheaper prices than the other mics they're typically compared to (Schoeps, DPA) lately, I believe because Neumann is phasing them out.  I have not run 140s, but I mean, they certainly are a very well respected mic.  If I could get a 140 set for $1600 with the active cables, I'd probably be able to live with running the bodies, esp because their bodies are tiny (much smaller than Schoeps/AKG/DPA/Beyer fullsize bodies); I don't know how they compare to Milab or MBHO). 

Lots of guys here are happy with the Beyers and don't show signs of moving from them; HOWEVER, you have to think carefully if you are one of those guys. Their resale value has not been great on these boards - I took a $250 hit on a set that was four months old; raoulduke's very nice looking set sat here for months and many price drops - and so if you move to Beyers, then think, "Oh, I really want Schoeps" or whatever, you will lose money.  Like I did.  I note that I owned the 950 hypers, not the more universally-loved 930 cards, though.  And mine were not actives.

*If* I could snag 140s at some of the sick prices that have been showing up around here, I'd probably do that, if I were doing it all over again.  That strikes me as the best deal going among the highest of the high end. 

Or you know, Schoeps rigs are now possible under $2k.  They of course have their naysayers, and they are $$$, but it seems an awful lot of people (myself included) keep buying them.   There is absolutely no argument, IMHO, that Schoeps offers the most options of ways to put together a rig, and therefore are a bit more adaptable to your needs. 

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If the Beyers can run w/o bodies with a tinybox (I believe they can), that is a legitimately good setup that is way better than CA-14s, doesn't require bodies, and costs a lot less than Schoeps.  Maybe some of the Beyer guys can confirm whether Jon has actually produced a full Beyer>tinybox rig - I know it's been discussed.

kangfirmed, I don't use it since I don't stealth but there are guys here who do. It was one of the first setups ones since the system voltage was really close to what Jon's component choice aligned with.

Supposedly the MBHO caps work with a specifically configured naiant box as well but I haven't seen much on that.

I note that I owned the 950 hypers, not the more universally-loved 930 cards, though.  And mine were not actives.

yeah, that's why I said just over $2k gets a set of both caps, that's in line with the prior sales and appropriate depreciation of the new price.

and the 930s just about are universally loved in the beyer camp.  There is no mic that captures a better cymbal sound IMHO.

Or you know, Schoeps rigs are now possible under $2k.  They of course have their naysayers, and they are $$$, but it seems an awful lot of people (myself included) keep buying them.   There is absolutely no argument, IMHO, that Schoeps offers the most options of ways to put together a rig, and therefore are a bit more adaptable to your needs.

Very true, the initial buy in cost has previously been prohibitive for a lot of people, but now you can put together an initial pair of caps and the pre-requisites for around $2k, with another $1k or so per pair of caps you add after that, maybe slightly less depending on condition/age/desperation/etc.

[Belexes]

I've been hoping Chris Church might make something that would be an improvement over the CA-14's. *fingers crossed*

[yousef]

I agonised over this (well, substitute AT-853 for CA-14) for years before going for 4022s because I didn't really rate anything in the "inbetween" price bracket.

What I would say is that unless you're deeply unhappy with your CA-14 recordings, will be doing a lot of open taping or just have lots of cash to get rid of, it may be more sensible to stick with the Church mics.

Certainly the 4022s sound better than my old mics but they don't sound $1600 better, they're a damn sight bigger and they need  48v.

I love them but if I was being completely sensible and reasonable I think I would have a hard time justifying the expense.

But "sensible and reasonable" isn't what it's about 

[darktrain]

I know I have been through them all and the reality is the more you put into it(money) the more you are going to get out of it(recordings), I mean I pulled some "good" tapes with the church, hlsc, and AT's but only with the MK4/41's have I had some just killer pulls, one of the biggest negatives on all the minature cards is lack of bass.  Better mics are better for a reason, no getting around it, I think for me I have found they are more forgiving In almost everyway. Location and venue still play a big part, like you still can't get a great pull from the sbd area of the Aragon no matter what you have    So unless you are going to make that big leap to some schoeps, akg's, sennheisers, dpa etc...(the schopes have many ways now of running low profile, and the others have ways to run low pro as well) and I see no point in switching unless you just have the urge to try other mics.

[Gutbucket]

..I have been using them for almost three years, sometimes alone but usually re-inforced by bass from a pair of 4063s low passed to try to compensate the roll off on the low end of the 4081s..

I don't have any small or active directionals, there's all full bodied P48 SDC'S & LDC's.  Like myself, I know you record a lot of acoustic music which benefits from full bass sensitivity.  Is your decision on when to run those alone made by the type of music and recording situation or some other factor?  I ask because many 'low profile' tapes of loud amplified PA type music seem to be generally bass heavy and mid or treble light to begin with simply due to the lower, often less than ideal mic location, where a 'contured' response with less sensitivity at the bottom might not be such a terrible thing.  I'd prefer a flat response and making targeted EQ corrections later, but I'm just thinking it might not be a bad fit for many around here if the mic's aspects make it attractive otherwise.  But I'll also admit that the primary reason I haven't looked into these further is their rolled off bottom end.  Just trying to get a feel for how significant it is.

[newplanet7]

The active setups that still require bodies in the chain are obviously less stealthy - Busman actives (still $899, and I'll be honest, at that price, I'd pass), Beyer 930/950, Milabs, MBHOs.

Also worth noting, but also needing bodies, Neumann KM140s have been going for a lot cheaper prices than the other mics they're typically compared to (Schoeps, DPA) lately, I believe because Neumann is phasing them out.  I have not run 140s, but I mean, they certainly are a very well respected mic.  If I could get a 140 set for $1600 with the active cables, I'd probably be able to live with running the bodies, esp because their bodies are tiny (much smaller than Schoeps/AKG/DPA/Beyer fullsize bodies); I don't know how they compare to Milab or MBHO). 
 

The bodies on the Milab VM-44's are small and more along the lines of the KM100 for size.
They are modular also, offering omni, supercadioid, and cardioid. You can get into a NEW pair for around $1500
I don't think the Beyers ck series are modular. At least there was talk of not being able to buy caps separate.
Correct?
EDIT:
Meaning you can't just buy the caps without buying the cables like every other true modular set.

[acidjack]

I agonised over this (well, substitute AT-853 for CA-14) for years before going for 4022s because I didn't really rate anything in the "inbetween" price bracket.

What I would say is that unless you're deeply unhappy with your CA-14 recordings, will be doing a lot of open taping or just have lots of cash to get rid of, it may be more sensible to stick with the Church mics.

Certainly the 4022s sound better than my old mics but they don't sound $1600 better, they're a damn sight bigger and they need  48v.

I love them but if I was being completely sensible and reasonable I think I would have a hard time justifying the expense.

But "sensible and reasonable" isn't what it's about 

Not necessarily disagreeing with you - and maybe in a hat/stealthing, 4022s are not 10x better than CA-14s...

but used optimally?  I'd argue they are.  If it was possible to quantify such things.  And I'm not hating on CA-14s. It's just that the premium mics are, well.. the premium mics.  It doesn't mean that user skill doesn't come heavily into play.

[Massive Dynamic]

and the 930s just about are universally loved in the beyer camp.  There is no mic that captures a better cymbal sound IMHO.

Just my ears, but I ran the original Audix 1290c and found them too harsh in the HF, and I found the Beyer mc930 to be too dull on cymbals. Be sure you listen to a lot of recordings before dropping >$1000 on anything.

[WiFiJeff]

..I have been using them for almost three years, sometimes alone but usually re-inforced by bass from a pair of 4063s low passed to try to compensate the roll off on the low end of the 4081s..

I don't have any small or active directionals, there's all full bodied P48 SDC'S & LDC's.  Like myself, I know you record a lot of acoustic music which benefits from full bass sensitivity.  Is your decision on when to run those alone made by the type of music and recording situation or some other factor?  I ask because many 'low profile' tapes of loud amplified PA type music seem to be generally bass heavy and mid or treble light to begin with simply due to the lower, often less than ideal mic location, where a 'contured' response with less sensitivity at the bottom might not be such a terrible thing.  I'd prefer a flat response and making targeted EQ corrections later, but I'm just thinking it might not be a bad fit for many around here if the mic's aspects make it attractive otherwise.  But I'll also admit that the primary reason I haven't looked into these further is their rolled off bottom end.  Just trying to get a feel for how significant it is.

I have some pretty good rules of thumb for cards or cards + omnis versus omnis alone: depends on type of music and hall (where I want to pull in voices or cut some reverberation in a very reverberent hall, I go cards or cards + omnis).  I have found (but no systematic results yet) that sometimes it is hard to tell the difference with the DPA 4099s alone or with the bass added in from the 4063s (assuming I don't go too heavy on the bass add-in).  It is slightly more cumbersome to do 4-track, so once in a while I get lazy and just run 4099s, but other times I just archive the omni tracks and go with the 4099s alone, not enough times to get a pattern yet.

Jeff

[page]

and the 930s just about are universally loved in the beyer camp.  There is no mic that captures a better cymbal sound IMHO.

Just my ears, but I ran the original Audix 1290c and found them too harsh in the HF, and I found the Beyer mc930 to be too dull on cymbals. Be sure you listen to a lot of recordings before dropping >$1000 on anything.

one man's trash is another man's treasure (as always I guess). For back of the room, I agree that they don't do much for cymbal sparkle, you have to get into the impact zone or use them in a fairly small room to really hear it bloom. I've had ck930 recordings that I made that were audix bright because of the HF peak, and conversely, mine have also been the darkest of the bunch on occasion. A lot of things go into a recording. As someone else mention recently, there are no perfect mics, just perfect mics for select jobs. 

Anyway, for reference; two samples that I think articulate the 930 cymbal sound I chase: (1) (2).

[yousef]

but used optimally?  I'd argue they are.  If it was possible to quantify such things.  And I'm not hating on CA-14s. It's just that the premium mics are, well.. the premium mics.  It doesn't mean that user skill doesn't come heavily into play.

I think I reconciled myself to being the most significant limiting factor in my recordings' quality some time ago... 

I think you're absolutely right though. One thing that goes through my mind however is that the OP is someone who upgraded to DPA4061s a little while ago and I wanted to be clear that the very immediate improvement in quality and usability he will have experienced in making that move would likely not be mirrored in the much greater cost of upgrading his cards.

Then again - good gear seems very cheap at the moment - if I had the bug I think I'd feel confident spending the money now and knowing I could offload later at minimal loss if things didn't work out.

[adrianf74]

I think I reconciled myself to being the most significant limiting factor in my recordings' quality some time ago... 

I think you're absolutely right though. One thing that goes through my mind however is that the OP is someone who upgraded to DPA4061s a little while ago and I wanted to be clear that the very immediate improvement in quality and usability he will have experienced in making that move would likely not be mirrored in the much greater cost of upgrading his cards.

Then again - good gear seems very cheap at the moment - if I had the bug I think I'd feel confident spending the money now and knowing I could offload later at minimal loss if things didn't work out.

Thanks Yousef.  I've also dealt with AKG 480's with CK61's and CK63's in the past (a good friend owns them) but they're far from ideal in a less-than-open environment.   I'd like something better but it definitely looks like I'm gonna be in the ballpark of $1500-$2000 to get something that would be a TRUE improvement and even then, in a less-than-open environment, how much greater of an improvement would I get?  I think that's the key factor for me.

I think I'll just keep my eyes open in the Yard and see what comes along.

[F.O.Bean]

I think everyone forgets about the Busman BSC2 Active setup because its still relatively new but they are a VERY FINE mic and custom built and sound damn good imo

[LikeASong]

It seems like I indeed made a very right choice when I bought my CA14's... I knew they were good, but I didn't know they were good enough to be praised and even compared with +1000 bucks mics 

I'm also interested on what do the taper gurus have to say about the OP... Of course I'm not thinking of upgrading my gear, but it's always nice to see how other people have evolved and improved their recordings!

[stevetoney]

I agonised over this (well, substitute AT-853 for CA-14) for years before going for 4022s because I didn't really rate anything in the "inbetween" price bracket.

What I would say is that unless you're deeply unhappy with your CA-14 recordings, will be doing a lot of open taping or just have lots of cash to get rid of, it may be more sensible to stick with the Church mics.

Certainly the 4022s sound better than my old mics but they don't sound $1600 better, they're a damn sight bigger and they need  48v.

I love them but if I was being completely sensible and reasonable I think I would have a hard time justifying the expense.

But "sensible and reasonable" isn't what it's about 

I think this is such an important point for people that have the upgrade bug to realize ahead of time.  If you don't, the chances are REALLY high that you're gonna be disappointed because some of this gear costs so much more money and you spend so much time wishing for it that when you finally get your hands on it, it can be a real buzz kill when you get several recordings and begin to realize that you spent ten times as much for your gear and only got some marginal amount of sound improvement which (subjectvely speaking) doesn't come remotely close to sounding ten times better than your low priced entry level rig.

Just be realistic in your upgrade expectation and you'll be fine.  Paying 10X as much as you paid for your CA-14 does not get you sound that's 10X better...whatever that means.

[F.O.Bean]

I agonised over this (well, substitute AT-853 for CA-14) for years before going for 4022s because I didn't really rate anything in the "inbetween" price bracket.

What I would say is that unless you're deeply unhappy with your CA-14 recordings, will be doing a lot of open taping or just have lots of cash to get rid of, it may be more sensible to stick with the Church mics.

Certainly the 4022s sound better than my old mics but they don't sound $1600 better, they're a damn sight bigger and they need  48v.

I love them but if I was being completely sensible and reasonable I think I would have a hard time justifying the expense.

But "sensible and reasonable" isn't what it's about 

I think this is such an important point for people that have the upgrade bug to realize ahead of time.  If you don't, the chances are REALLY high that you're gonna be disappointed because some of this gear costs so much more money and you spend so much time wishing for it that when you finally get your hands on it, it can be a real buzz kill when you get several recordings and begin to realize that you spent ten times as much for your gear and only got some marginal amount of sound improvement which (subjectvely speaking) doesn't come remotely close to sounding ten times better than your low priced entry level rig.

Just be realistic in your upgrade expectation and you'll be fine.  Paying 10X as much as you paid for your CA-14 does not get you sound that's 10X better...whatever that means.

100% Agreed!

[fandelive]

So, I know there are mics like the Sennheiser MKE40's (aka MM-HSLC-1) that are worth looking at; I'm just wondering what they're like compared to the CA-14's.

I started a thread a while back asking if someone ever did a CA-14/MM-HLSC-1 matrix but got no replies.
As far as I can remember, nobody ever did a comparison of those mics recording both the same source from the same spot.

The MM-HLSC-1 are my actual mics. I recorded a bunch of shows using them and the only time I've not been happy with the results was when the sound source was bad from my spot.
I can post samples and venue/spot information on request

Important notice : If you want to record loud shows with the MM-HLSC-1, you'll have to mod them (4.7k mod, Chris Church can do that for you).

[Belexes]

I started a thread a while back asking if someone ever did a CA-14/MM-HLSC-1 matrix but got no replies.
As far as I can remember, nobody ever did a comparison of those mics recording both the same source from the same spot.

I now have both mics and plan on doing a comp sometime this year in an open taping environment.  I know the CA-14's have a deeper bass response in comparison, but the MM-HLSC-1's provide a little more detail to my ears. 

[illconditioned]

The HLSC are cardioids, right?

Those are very nice mics in my opinion.  I think they are the best miniature (10mm diameter) cardioid out there.

  Richard

[Javier Cinakowski]

The hlsc(mke40) are very nice, but unfortunatly discontinued. Microphone madness still has them on their website, but they are "not orderable" when you go to check out.  After emailing them they confirmed that sennheiser no longer sources the mke40...

[yousef]

That's a shame. They do tend to turn up on the Yardsale for decent prices reasonably often though.

[Church-Audio]

I've been hoping Chris Church might make something that would be an improvement over the CA-14's. *fingers crossed*

I promise by the end of the year I will have a new mic that will be better than the ca-14 but it will be bigger. And not stealth. Well seeing what some people stealth with I guess I should not say you cant stealth with them. They are going to be like a ca-14 on steroids.

[Walstib62]

I've been hoping Chris Church might make something that would be an improvement over the CA-14's. *fingers crossed*

I promise by the end of the year I will have a new mic that will be better than the ca-14 but it will be bigger. And not stealth. Well seeing what some people stealth with I guess I should not say you cant stealth with them. They are going to be like a ca-14 on steroids.

Any specs you can share?

[F.O.Bean]

I've been hoping Chris Church might make something that would be an improvement over the CA-14's. *fingers crossed*

I promise by the end of the year I will have a new mic that will be better than the ca-14 but it will be bigger. And not stealth. Well seeing what some people stealth with I guess I should not say you cant stealth with them. They are going to be like a ca-14 on steroids.

Any specs you can share?

AWESOME!

[daspyknows]

Well, I bought MK4's 20 years ago as part of a development effort that lead to the original RBox design which led to the NBox.   If I amortize the cost it is under $20 per show which is quite reasonable.  I have not felt an overwhelming desire to upgrade except possibly another pair of capsules.  I just purchased a set of ca-14's for my 12 year old son as a starter rig.  There is a noticable difference between recordings but not 10X better.  In my opinion I'd say stick with what you have unless you are going to really go for it.  Otherwise you will still have the urge to upgrade but you will have a second set of mics to sell and potentially take a loss on.  Again, just my opinion.

[adrianf74]

Well, I bought MK4's 20 years ago as part of a development effort that lead to the original RBox design which led to the NBox.   If I amortize the cost it is under $20 per show which is quite reasonable.  I have not felt an overwhelming desire to upgrade except possibly another pair of capsules.  I just purchased a set of ca-14's for my 12 year old son as a starter rig.  There is a noticable difference between recordings but not 10X better.  In my opinion I'd say stick with what you have unless you are going to really go for it.  Otherwise you will still have the urge to upgrade but you will have a second set of mics to sell and potentially take a loss on.  Again, just my opinion.

Thanks for the input.  I'm sitting on the fence as I'm considering the BeyerDynamics but keep leaning towards my "first pick."   If I can get a good enough deal on the Beyer's that selling them down the road won't be a "real" loss (when funds are more available), then I might make the jump (for about a year or two). My issue is that I prefer the more natural sound of my 4061's and lean towards those as my "first pick" even in situations where the CA-14 cardioids might have served me better.  When I think back to my DPA conundrum, it doesn't make sense to buy something "for now" when I'll just have to make the jump again down the road.  Lucky for me, I didn't take a real hit on the mic sales to get the DPAs but it could've been ugly and I'm willing to bet I won't be able to make the jump this time without the loss.

[fleish]

Well, I bought MK4's 20 years ago as part of a development effort that lead to the original RBox design which led to the NBox.   If I amortize the cost it is under $20 per show which is quite reasonable.  I have not felt an overwhelming desire to upgrade except possibly another pair of capsules.  I just purchased a set of ca-14's for my 12 year old son as a starter rig.  There is a noticable difference between recordings but not 10X better.  In my opinion I'd say stick with what you have unless you are going to really go for it.  Otherwise you will still have the urge to upgrade but you will have a second set of mics to sell and potentially take a loss on.  Again, just my opinion.

Thanks for the input.  I'm sitting on the fence as I'm considering the BeyerDynamics but keep leaning towards my "first pick."   If I can get a good enough deal on the Beyer's that selling them down the road won't be a "real" loss (when funds are more available), then I might make the jump (for about a year or two). My issue is that I prefer the more natural sound of my 4061's and lean towards those as my "first pick" even in situations where the CA-14 cardioids might have served me better.  When I think back to my DPA conundrum, it doesn't make sense to buy something "for now" when I'll just have to make the jump again down the road.  Lucky for me, I didn't take a real hit on the mic sales to get the DPAs but it could've been ugly and I'm willing to bet I won't be able to make the jump this time without the loss.

FWIW, the MC930 (full bodied version of the CK930) was my first serious mic upgrade from the smaller AT853 and I fell in love with it at first sound. I wish it got more use, but I've since become a full blown slut and have a stable of mics - plus I usually opt for the AK40's b/c of the smaller footprint they take up which is often crucial in some venus.

But ultimately I'd say go with your gut. Everyone's ears are different and you should pick the mic that has the sound yours like the best IMO.

[Belexes]

I've been hoping Chris Church might make something that would be an improvement over the CA-14's. *fingers crossed*

I promise by the end of the year I will have a new mic that will be better than the ca-14 but it will be bigger. And not stealth. Well seeing what some people stealth with I guess I should not say you cant stealth with them. They are going to be like a ca-14 on steroids.

Great to hear Chris! All mics are  .

[newplanet7]

The bodies on the Milab VM-44's are small and more along the lines of the KM100 for size.
They are modular also, offering omni, supercadioid, and cardioid. You can get into a NEW pair for around $1500
I don't think the Beyers ck series are modular. At least there was talk of not being able to buy caps separate.
Correct?
EDIT:
Meaning you can't just buy the caps without buying the cables like every other true modular set.

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The bodies on the Milab VM-44's are small and more along the lines of the KM100 for size.
They are modular also, offering omni, supercadioid, and cardioid. You can get into a NEW pair for around $1500
I don't think the Beyers ck series are modular. At least there was talk of not being able to buy caps separate.
Correct?
EDIT:
Meaning you can't just buy the caps without buying the cables like every other true modular set.

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Sorry, I thought I'd replied, must have closed the window that day.

1) Yes the caps are physically modular in that they can disconnect from all cables and all cables can also disconnect from the bodies (and the caps can be run without the bodies provided you talk to Jon about a special tinybox).
2) No they are not modular in that you don't buy them separately from the bodies (or "sets" as they are sold in). I've seen individual pieces (but no caps listed publicly) for sale from an American vendor and they barely retailed for $150 a pop when I last looked so you're spending almost 80% of your cash on each cap anyway.
3) They only did cardioids and hypers, I asked once about an omni in the pipeline and they said no.

[newplanet7]

Thanks bud.

[Church-Audio]

I've been hoping Chris Church might make something that would be an improvement over the CA-14's. *fingers crossed*

I promise by the end of the year I will have a new mic that will be better than the ca-14 but it will be bigger. And not stealth. Well seeing what some people stealth with I guess I should not say you cant stealth with them. They are going to be like a ca-14 on steroids.

Any specs you can share?

I am actively auditioning capsules as we speak. They will most likely be 16 to 20 mm diaphragms. And be built like the ca-14 but with a bigger windscreen and bigger body there will be a phantom power option for them.

[adrianf74]

I promise by the end of the year I will have a new mic that will be better than the ca-14 but it will be bigger. And not stealth. Well seeing what some people stealth with I guess I should not say you cant stealth with them. They are going to be like a ca-14 on steroids.

I am actively auditioning capsules as we speak. They will most likely be 16 to 20 mm diaphragms. And be built like the ca-14 but with a bigger windscreen and bigger body there will be a phantom power option for them.

Interesting news, Chris.  Looks like we all have something to look forward to.

[fandelive]

SP-CMC-9 ? Recently heard a very nice recording made by those 

[adrianf74]

SP-CMC-9 ? Recently heard a very nice recording made by those 

Nah... again, similar in class to the AT-933/943 and I owned the 933's (SP-CMC-8's) back in the day.  There was a thread while back about CMC-8 vs CMC-9 and most people said to go with the 8 or even the 853.  The 853 is a good little mic but, again, not a worthy move from the CA-14's.   

I know Chris has said he plans to release a larger capsule mic later in the year.   I'm thinking I might stick around to see what this is gonna be like.   I'd love nothing more than to run some MK4/22 Schoeps via a TinyBox and CMR but I can't justify a $2500 jump for the number of times a year I run my cardioids.  Out of the last 20 shows I've rolled on, I've used the cards twice.  One was at an arena show from the lower bowl.  The other show was in a hockey arena (smaller 2000 capacity "bowl" setting).   And, those are two of my least favourite sounding shows.   That being said, the 4061's never disappoint (save for the people who can't STFU but I'd still be hearing them on the cards as well).

[jbou]

I am actively auditioning capsules as we speak. They will most likely be 16 to 20 mm diaphragms. And be built like the ca-14 but with a bigger windscreen and bigger body there will be a phantom power option for them.

Keep up the good work Chris! I'm looking forward to see what you come up with

[F.O.Bean]

So, what have you decided on If you *LOVE* the sound of the mk4/mk41/etc then I say GO FOR IT. You only live once and can resell for what you put into them. I also LOVE my Busman BSCS mics. Very sweet sound thru my LB w/ Output Transformers

[adrianf74]

So, what have you decided on If you *LOVE* the sound of the mk4/mk41/etc then I say GO FOR IT. You only live once and can resell for what you put into them. I also LOVE my Busman BSCS mics. Very sweet sound thru my LB w/ Output Transformers

Of course you'd be asking, Bean.

I do love the sound of the MK4/41/etc., I'm just not in love with the price-tag associated with the setup.  Right now, I have a little bit of debt to still pay off after a major life-changing event.  I'm fortunate that I've been able to upgrade my omnis but the cardioids are too rich for me right now as I'd like to get back into the home-ownership game in the next year or two.  $2500-$3000 is a lot of coin to drop on mics that I might use 5 times a year based on where I'm usually situated.  When I'm open, I have access to the 480/ck61-or-3 set up but I'd have a lot of 'splainin' to do to my other half (who supports my hobby) but would likely go a little crazy if I told her I just dropped $3k on some mics.

That said, I'm sticking with the CA-14's and gonna see what Chris comes up with in the coming months.   Maybe once I'm fully out of debt I'll have no issues dropping the money as long as I don't get dropped by my honey in the process.

[F.O.Bean]

Smart move. I LOVED my CA14s when I had them, and will DEF own them again someday

[Church-Audio]

I will have a new mic for trial in the next 3 months I will loan it out to people that put a $50 deposit on the mic I hate to do this but so much of my gear has been stolen in the loaner section that I refuse to do it with out a deposit.

Chris

[Gutbucket]

Cool & congradulations.  What's new/different/improved?

[Church-Audio]

Cool & congradulations.  What's new/different/improved?

It will be a bigger capsule and it will not really be a stealth product more of a stand mounted open recording product although that being said I have seen people stealth with some pretty big mics, so they will be almost 1 inch in od. Again I am working on this it will be a while before I produce a sample for others to try.

[jbou]

Chris, that sounds awesome. It would be cool if it was a standard diameter for easy mounting with clip/shockmounts. I'm looking forward to see what you come up with.