Topic: Stay with CMC-8 and SP-SB-3 _OR_ move to CA-11/STC-9000?

[Church-Audio]

Can somebody just answer the damn question, already?

Sheesh!

Chris - FYI: not to take sides or anything, and being a fellow Canuck.. he's offering a good six-pack of brew.  It's possibly one of the few American beers I'd even remotely think of drinking.

That's it no more free advice for you  Seriously though you should get decent recordings from your mics. I would suspect a bad battery or some other cause if they dont sound right. You can always send them to me I will test them for you and give you an ok if they are functioning as they should be. But I suspect they are. Remember cardioids must be aimed at the sound source. If your right in front of a pair of bass speakers no mics no matter how good they are will produce good sound.. But if the sound was balanced to your ears then your mics should be pretty close if they were placed in a good line of site with the sound source. Remember we cant really talk about these things in public but the higher the mics are on your body they better they will work.

Chris

[taylordb]

Can somebody just answer the damn question, already?

Sheesh!

Chris - FYI: not to take sides or anything, and being a fellow Canuck.. he's offering a good six-pack of brew.  It's possibly one of the few American beers I'd even remotely think of drinking.

Yes, I would get the preamp, and for your setup the CA ST-9100 is perfect. I have the SP-CMC-8 (AT853's) and all I can say is that adding the ST-9100 to the chain made a marked improvement to my recordings.  I cannot give proof....I can only tell you what my ears hear.

[Humbug]

Can somebody just answer the damn question, already?

Try some hyper caps (either AT943, or adaptor + AT853).

That's my advice for outside or boomy/bassy venues with these mics.

Note: I don't like using Hypers, as they can sound a bit thin when the sound is good but when it isn't they can save a recording.

[adrianf74]

Can somebody just answer the damn question, already?

Sheesh!

Chris - FYI: not to take sides or anything, and being a fellow Canuck.. he's offering a good six-pack of brew.  It's possibly one of the few American beers I'd even remotely think of drinking.

That's it no more free advice for you  Seriously though you should get decent recordings from your mics. I would suspect a bad battery or some other cause if they dont sound right. You can always send them to me I will test them for you and give you an ok if they are functioning as they should be. But I suspect they are. Remember cardioids must be aimed at the sound source. If your right in front of a pair of bass speakers no mics no matter how good they are will produce good sound.. But if the sound was balanced to your ears then your mics should be pretty close if they were placed in a good line of site with the sound source. Remember we cant really talk about these things in public but the higher the mics are on your body they better they will work.

Chris

<Sobbing>.

Actually, I'm kidding.  But, yes, I know the mics MUST be aimed at the source in order to get a good recording.  Like I'd mentioned, the alt.rock show at the Arena was bass-heavy in the mix and sounds this way on the recording. Separation and clarity is EXCELLENT.  A good friend said, bar none, that this was the best recording I'd ever pulled (and I've got quite a few to date that turned out perfectly).

In both cases, the mics were in a good location.  The weekend show, was a free show - i.e., Public Domaion, and had a very murky mix so I'm going with "garbage in, garbage out."  I managed to roll-off some bass in post and then punch the mid and treble to a point where I was considerably happier but still not ecstatic.

I might send the battery box up to you, however, I'm also suspecting it's fine simply based on the fact that if the batteries were crap (or there was another issue), there wouldn't be enough juice to drive the mics and make the recording via line-in.

Thanks again.

[Dede2002]

Like the Soup Nazi would say: "no brownies for you"
See, I cannot give proof. But one thing is for sure: with the CA-9100 in front of my R-09, the resulting recordings are cleaner.
In my world, a cleaner sounding recording means a better, improved recording.
Anyway, I just loved the post exchange.  . Sense of humor is always the best way to go.

[adrianf74]

Like the Soup Nazi would say: "no brownies for you"
See, I cannot give proof. But one thing is for sure: with the CA-9100 in front of my R-09, the resulting recordings are cleaner.
In my world, a cleaner sounding recording means a better, improved recording.
Anyway, I just loved the post exchange.  . Sense of humor is always the best way to go.

This is the thing, I'm just trying to determine whether the pre- is worthwhile; in the past, I've encountered this same debate from tapers: one camp swears up and down by them while a second one denies their importance.

From a technical standpoint, I can see where the improvement "may" exist, however, with noise floors getting lower and lower with better technology, and because I mainly record loud events over quieter ones, that's where I'm debating grabbing a pre-.

What's the size of the STC-9100 anyway?

[Dede2002]

Like the Soup Nazi would say: "no brownies for you"
See, I cannot give proof. But one thing is for sure: with the CA-9100 in front of my R-09, the resulting recordings are cleaner.
In my world, a cleaner sounding recording means a better, improved recording.
Anyway, I just loved the post exchange.  . Sense of humor is always the best way to go.

This is the thing, I'm just trying to determine whether the pre- is worthwhile; in the past, I've encountered this same debate from tapers: one camp swears up and down by them while a second one denies their importance.

From a technical standpoint, I can see where the improvement "may" exist, however, with noise floors getting lower and lower with better technology, and because I mainly record loud events over quieter ones, that's where I'm debating grabbing a pre-.

What's the size of the STC-9100 anyway?

2.5" X 3.5" X 1"   

[emalvido]

I have
CMC-8's (AT943) with STC-9100 and Sony M1
Awesome!! no muddy in here, loud stuff? no problem!

[Liquid Drum]

I stack taped 2 loud metal gigs in the past week. No distortion here and zero muddiness. I actually used the 80hz roll-off switch on the 9100 and the bass came through nicely. I do have the low sens mod on my 933's btw.

[Church-Audio]

Like the Soup Nazi would say: "no brownies for you"
See, I cannot give proof. But one thing is for sure: with the CA-9100 in front of my R-09, the resulting recordings are cleaner.
In my world, a cleaner sounding recording means a better, improved recording.
Anyway, I just loved the post exchange.  . Sense of humor is always the best way to go.

This is the thing, I'm just trying to determine whether the pre- is worthwhile; in the past, I've encountered this same debate from tapers: one camp swears up and down by them while a second one denies their importance.

From a technical standpoint, I can see where the improvement "may" exist, however, with noise floors getting lower and lower with better technology, and because I mainly record loud events over quieter ones, that's where I'm debating grabbing a pre-.

What's the size of the STC-9100 anyway?

I think its pretty simple. There are times when you dont need a preamp. We all know for taping really loud shows its a non issue. But the real problem is "loud" could mean 103db or 114db depending on where you are in the venue. So I say its better to have a preamp available then to go to a gig and find out you should have had one with you because you dont have enough gain. Furthermore you know your signal to noise is going to be better so you will have the confidence knowing that what ever amount of gain you need its going to be that much more quiet then with out my preamp or any good preamp. I would rather have a preamp in my rig and know I can work with pretty much any levels then rely on my recorder completely. And the other main issue is when you run my 4.7k mod or 3 wire your also reducing your levels by 11 to 13db where will that gain be made up if you dont have a battery box it must be made up in your recording device the only problem with that is how much "noise free" gain does your recorder have before you run into problems with signal to noise? That question is impossible to answer because with out knowing the acoustic level your going to be encountering you cant know there for a preamp will help you get over that unknown and help maintain the quality of the capture provided the preamps quaility is very good.

[Dede2002]

Like the Soup Nazi would say: "no brownies for you"
See, I cannot give proof. But one thing is for sure: with the CA-9100 in front of my R-09, the resulting recordings are cleaner.
In my world, a cleaner sounding recording means a better, improved recording.
Anyway, I just loved the post exchange.  . Sense of humor is always the best way to go.

This is the thing, I'm just trying to determine whether the pre- is worthwhile; in the past, I've encountered this same debate from tapers: one camp swears up and down by them while a second one denies their importance.

From a technical standpoint, I can see where the improvement "may" exist, however, with noise floors getting lower and lower with better technology, and because I mainly record loud events over quieter ones, that's where I'm debating grabbing a pre-.

What's the size of the STC-9100 anyway?

I think its pretty simple. There are times when you dont need a preamp. We all know for taping really loud shows its a non issue. But the real problem is "loud" could mean 103db or 114db depending on where you are in the venue. So I say its better to have a preamp available then to go to a gig and find out you should have had one with you because you dont have enough gain. Furthermore you know your signal to noise is going to be better so you will have the confidence knowing that what ever amount of gain you need its going to be that much more quiet then with out my preamp or any good preamp. I would rather have a preamp in my rig and know I can work with pretty much any levels then rely on my recorder completely. And the other main issue is when you run my 4.7k mod or 3 wire your also reducing your levels by 11 to 13db where will that gain be made up if you dont have a battery box it must be made up in your recording device the only problem with that is how much "noise free" gain does your recorder have before you run into problems with signal to noise? That question is impossible to answer because with out knowing the acoustic level your going to be encountering you cant know there for a preamp will help you get over that unknown and help maintain the quality of the capture provided the preamps quaility is very good.

What he said
Chris, I'm totally in love with my new CA-9100.
Greetings from Brasil

[SmokinJoe]

At the risk of getting everyone all worked up again, I will relate something I learned the hard way last weekend.  Sometimes a battery box is the best tool for the job.  Especially with AT-853's (different from  your AT-9x3s).  They need all the plug-in-power voltage they can get to provide headroom for high SPLs and the battbox provides more voltage than the preamp.

Last weekend I ran AT-853s > soundpro battbox > R-09 for three sets on a rainy morning.  These are "plain 2 wire AT-853s" like Soundpro sells, not the "low sensitivity mod" that Chris came up with.  To make a long story short, it worked fine with a 9V battbox (I normally use a 12v battbox), which sends 9V (or 12V) right to the mics.  Then just because I was bored and had too many options at hand, I decided to "improve" the situation by replacing the battbox with an ST-9100 preamp.  The preamp only puts out 3.5v plug in power, and I brickwalled for the next two sets.

When using Chris's mics with Chris's preamp, it's a great combo.  For my AT-853s in a quiet acoustic set where I need gain, the 9100 is great.  If it's loud, I'm going to stick with my battbox.  YMMV.

[Church-Audio]

At the risk of getting everyone all worked up again, I will relate something I learned the hard way last weekend.  Sometimes a battery box is the best tool for the job.  Especially with AT-853's (different from  your AT-9x3s).  They need all the plug-in-power voltage they can get to provide headroom for high SPLs and the battbox provides more voltage than the preamp.

Last weekend I ran AT-853s > soundpro battbox > R-09 for three sets on a rainy morning.  These are "plain 2 wire AT-853s" like Soundpro sells, not the "low sensitivity mod" that Chris came up with.  To make a long story short, it worked fine with a 9V battbox (I normally use a 12v battbox), which sends 9V (or 12V) right to the mics.  Then just because I was bored and had too many options at hand, I decided to "improve" the situation by replacing the battbox with an ST-9100 preamp.  The preamp only puts out 3.5v plug in power, and I brickwalled for the next two sets.

When using Chris's mics with Chris's preamp, it's a great combo.  For my AT-853s in a quiet acoustic set where I need gain, the 9100 is great.  If it's loud, I'm going to stick with my battbox.  YMMV.

Actually my new version of the 9100 preamp puts out 8 volts and there is no difference what so ever between 8 and 9 volts as far as performance goes. If you have one that puts out 3.5 volts its a really REALLY old one. Anyone that has one that old can get it upgraded for $95.00 this is basically a brand new preamp the only parts we "reuse" are the case and the plastic knob. Everything else is changed out.


Chris

[Liquid Drum]

At the risk of getting everyone all worked up again, I will relate something I learned the hard way last weekend.  Sometimes a battery box is the best tool for the job.  Especially with AT-853's (different from  your AT-9x3s).  They need all the plug-in-power voltage they can get to provide headroom for high SPLs and the battbox provides more voltage than the preamp.

Last weekend I ran AT-853s > soundpro battbox > R-09 for three sets on a rainy morning.  These are "plain 2 wire AT-853s" like Soundpro sells, not the "low sensitivity mod" that Chris came up with.  To make a long story short, it worked fine with a 9V battbox (I normally use a 12v battbox), which sends 9V (or 12V) right to the mics.  Then just because I was bored and had too many options at hand, I decided to "improve" the situation by replacing the battbox with an ST-9100 preamp.  The preamp only puts out 3.5v plug in power, and I brickwalled for the next two sets.

When using Chris's mics with Chris's preamp, it's a great combo.  For my AT-853s in a quiet acoustic set where I need gain, the 9100 is great.  If it's loud, I'm going to stick with my battbox.  YMMV.

Actually my new version of the 9100 preamp puts out 8 volts and there is no difference what so ever between 8 and 9 volts as far as performance goes. If you have one that puts out 3.5 volts its a really REALLY old one. Anyone that has one that old can get it upgraded for $95.00 this is basically a brand new preamp the only parts we "reuse" are the case and the plastic knob. Everything else is changed out.


Chris

Chris, sorry to be of bother. How can I tell which version of 9100 I have?

Thanks.

[Church-Audio]

At the risk of getting everyone all worked up again, I will relate something I learned the hard way last weekend.  Sometimes a battery box is the best tool for the job.  Especially with AT-853's (different from  your AT-9x3s).  They need all the plug-in-power voltage they can get to provide headroom for high SPLs and the battbox provides more voltage than the preamp.

Last weekend I ran AT-853s > soundpro battbox > R-09 for three sets on a rainy morning.  These are "plain 2 wire AT-853s" like Soundpro sells, not the "low sensitivity mod" that Chris came up with.  To make a long story short, it worked fine with a 9V battbox (I normally use a 12v battbox), which sends 9V (or 12V) right to the mics.  Then just because I was bored and had too many options at hand, I decided to "improve" the situation by replacing the battbox with an ST-9100 preamp.  The preamp only puts out 3.5v plug in power, and I brickwalled for the next two sets.

When using Chris's mics with Chris's preamp, it's a great combo.  For my AT-853s in a quiet acoustic set where I need gain, the 9100 is great.  If it's loud, I'm going to stick with my battbox.  YMMV.

Actually my new version of the 9100 preamp puts out 8 volts and there is no difference what so ever between 8 and 9 volts as far as performance goes. If you have one that puts out 3.5 volts its a really REALLY old one. Anyone that has one that old can get it upgraded for $95.00 this is basically a brand new preamp the only parts we "reuse" are the case and the plastic knob. Everything else is changed out.


Chris

Chris, sorry to be of bother. How can I tell which version of 9100 I have?

Thanks.

It depends on when you bought it. Anything made before Jan 2007 is the old version there were two revisions after between 2007 Jan and Now the latest version is 3.3a and it is usually writen on the battery compartment lid or underneath the label the easy way to tell is do a continuity test with a multimeter between input ground and output ground there should be no connection on the newer versions.

Chris