Topic: Should I keep my microtrack? Thinking about going back to minidisc.

[taper420]

What do you guys think?

I think you should sell your MT to me at a cut-rate price. 

I realize you're not too serious, but....

1. I can still return it for a full refund
2. I think I'm gonna keep it and
    a. deal with the 2 gig limit, and use my current rh10 for patching gaps when needed
    b. look for an rh1 to borrow for transfering my legacy md's or
    c. buy an rh1, transfer my md's, sell here for cut-rate price.
3. I already paid too much for the MT cause I needed it right away, bought it from J&R, B&H was closed for passover, didn't have a print out for price matching


on a similar but different note.... i mentioned in my first post that I've had dropouts while playing back the MT (with the latest firmware). What's scary is they occur in the same spot everytime. What's not so scary is it doesn't show up in the waveform once transfered to the computer. Anyone have similar experience? I already know it's not the media because it's happened at least once on each recording I've made, and I've used different media...one a sandisk ultra II and one a lexar platinum II

[cmoorevt]

on a similar but different note.... i mentioned in my first post that I've had dropouts while playing back the MT (with the latest firmware). What's scary is they occur in the same spot everytime. What's not so scary is it doesn't show up in the waveform once transfered to the computer. Anyone have similar experience? I already know it's not the media because it's happened at least once on each recording I've made, and I've used different media...one a sandisk ultra II and one a lexar platinum II

I've had an MT from the start and it has never been good on playback.   Something about the buffer I think.  Some of the earlier firmwares caused the playback to lock up after a period of time and this new one causes some dropouts.  Fortunately it is more of an inconvencience than anything else as it doesn't cause any problems with the file on the card.  I've never had a problem with any recordings that didn't play back correctly.

[busterr]

Yep what "cmoorevt" said.
If it only drops out while playing back on the MT itself and not on the computer, that is a relatively common issue. The older FW's caused more headaches regarding playback, but I imagine they can keep improving this w/ future updates.

Oh and by the way i think Brian was serious. 

[busterr]

Regarding J&R, you may want to consider bringing it in there(or call costomer service#) with some print outs and tell them you want a refund because you can get it cheaper elsewhere. My guess is since it's within 30 days they will still honor their price match policy(which is somewhat unclear from what I saw). It may put a few bucks in your pocket.
Good luck with whatever you end up doing though. 

[dunebug81]

c. buy an rh1, transfer my md's, sell here for cut-rate price.

When that happens let me know and I'll buy it.

Whats the lag time between stoping one file and starting to record a new one on the MT?  Surely its got to be faster then swaping MDs.  While the RH1 is faster then the RH10 it still takes a good 30 seconds or so.  Usually its not a big deal cause 95 min is longer then most shows i go see or at the very least they take an encore around the 80-90 min mark.

[taper420]

c. buy an rh1, transfer my md's, sell here for cut-rate price.

When that happens let me know and I'll buy it.

Whats the lag time between stoping one file and starting to record a new one on the MT?  Surely its got to be faster then swaping MDs.  While the RH1 is faster then the RH10 it still takes a good 30 seconds or so.  Usually its not a big deal cause 95 min is longer then most shows i go see or at the very least they take an encore around the 80-90 min mark.

I'll let you know, what's your offer...keep in mind I'll barely be using it.
It's quicker than any md recorder for sure...maybe 5 seconds....point is I would have two HiMD recorders so really the disc flipping would be moot. Of course there would be the pain of connecting the two files seamlessly as busterr024 pointed out, I've done it before, it's not too much trouble, but it is an extra step.

Yes there are shows I see where I would be fine with 95 mins, or even 115 mins, but there are definitely shows that wouldn't. When I started this hobby/obsession it was first with the legacy md recorders. That was back when we only had 82 mins. I quickly learned I needed two units to get a complete copy. So maybe I'm just conditioned into being paranoid about not having enough time. It's just so nerve-racking when you have ten minutes left and you don't know how long this next song/jam is going to be. I just want to be able to enjoy the show without worrying about that crap. But I digress, because I'm always going to have a backup running anyway, which can act as a patch in the event of catastrophic loss. So I guess the strengths of the MT really do outweight the RH1, especially since they're so close in price. I'll have my Rh10 rollin in the event that the set lasts longer than 115 minutes. I'm sticking with the MT.

Thanks all, would anyone care for some t?
+'s around.

[boojum]

I use my MZ-RH1 for live taping.  Few shows run 94 minutes a set so one disc will do a set.  The time required to swap discs is ~1 minute if you have to swap while the gig is still running.  Even a bad show will get a minute's pause with or without applause.  The upload is quick enough, from 1/2 to 1/4 to real time of the MD.  The pre-amp is a non-issue as for amp'ed music I got in through line-in.  For acoustic I use mic-in.  In either case I set the record level at 20/30 and make up the difference with ReplayGain on FLAC files that I make from the WAV files SonicStage creates from PCM.   All in all it is small, efficient, does a good job and the media is not expensive. 

The SONY SonicStage is still in some very bad language that causes it to be slow, but the uploads are not.  And, you can upload all your legacy recordings through the RH1 and save them as WAV's.  All in all, I like the SONY.  But I have always been a SONY whore.  In short: it does the job and it does it well.

B)

[Arni99]

I know some RH1 tapers who use HI-SP instead of PCM, so you get 7h56min on 1 HI-MD and the difference to PCM is not really a THAT huge AND HI-SP is accepted on DIME for trading if its 1st generation .
The HI-SP (ATRAC 256kbit/s) files get converted to WAV when transferred by sonic stage 4.3.

I don´t think I could separate the PCM and HI-SP files in a listening-test.

The RH1 is perfect for stealthing because when put in your left frontpocket u can easily check the manual recording level and adjust if needed. I have a hole inside my frontpocket where the cable goes to the line in of my recorder.

That´s hard with my rockboxed iriver h140 and the same problem with my edirol r-09.

 

[Arni99]

I just ran a test playing 1 song on my home-stereo
1.run: recording on my Edirol r-09 mic-in with my Sennheiser MM-HLSO-omnis
2.run: recording on my MZ-RH1 mic-in with my Sennheiser MM-HLSO-omnis

The MZ-RH1 recording sounds a lot better. WHY? It has less noise and the overall sound is really good...not as "iron-metal"-sounding as the Edirol´s.
I guess the internal preamp and A/D converter of the RH1 are superior to the Edirol´s.
Some reviews of the RH1 on the net show the RH1´s preamp is top notch.
One of the reviewrs wrote the RH1´s preamp is the best of nowadays recording devices up to 1000$.
I guess the same goes for the ADC.
Will use both devices for tonights open taping session and run both at 16bit 44.1kHz.
I can live with the 95min limit of PCM recording ...otherwise there would be NO excitement at all when taping and the display shows 9x minutes .

Correct me if I´m wrong but isn´t the microtracks preamp worse than the Edirol´s?

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I just ran a test playing 1 song on my home-stereo
1.run: recording on my Edirol r-09 mic-in with my Sennheiser MM-HLSO-omnis
2.run: recording on my MZ-RH1 mic-in with my Sennheiser MM-HLSO-omnis

Can you post some samples with the gain settings you used?

I've found home stereo volume is much lower than a live rock concert. So there is always the question of whether the extra gain required matches the real world case of the end user.  If you record quiet material without a pre-amp, those low volume tests are important. I've always found big differences between live material and recording the home stereo.  Especially when you get into how a particular pre-amp handles a muddy room vs. an outdoor situation, etc.

As far as comparing the A/Ds, you'd really need an external pre-amp and a live source.

[taper420]

As far as preamps go...
I've used my rh10's preamp once at a tDB show, plugged my sennheiser's right into the mic in (powered the mics on their own internal AA's instead of phantom)....put rh10 on low sensitivity, and set the levels for no clipping (not that the levels matter at all if you're clipping your preamp). There was major brickwalling. I think perhaps the MD preamps sound very good at low levels, but I can't use them for the stuff I normally tape. They even overload at band practice, so as far as I'm concerned they have no practical purpose (same is true for the MT as well). Now that I have a CA 9100 preamp (the size of a pack of cards), I wouldn't ever just use the preamp on the MD or the MT anyway.

As far as ADC goes, I know that the one on the HiMD is top notch. I'm pretty sure it's 20 bit as well, and dither's down to 16 when recording PCM. I believe it's at least as good if not better than the one in the Korg (yes it's one bit too), the only difference is it can't store it in the native 1 bit format. So actually I'm going to be very interested to see with some test in the future, if the quality of the himd's ADC, out weights the MT's 24 bit ADC. If that's the case, then you'd actually get a better sounding recording at 16/44, rather than at 24/44 (lets keep it at 44 so we don't get sonic issues with the SR)

[flintstone]

The preamp in the Hi-MD recorder is very good.  Sony doesn't report self-noise data for its minidisc machines.  A couple of attempts to measure the Hi-MD preamp self-noise arrived at figures around -115dBu.   Not stellar, but very creditable for a device that costs less than $300.  And considerably better than the competition at that price point.

Here's an article that describes one experiment to measure self-noise in the Hi-MD recorder
http://www.wildlife-sound.org/equipment/himd/himdmyths_meas.html

And here's an accompanying piece that describes the SPL that causes brickwalling in the Hi-MD at Hi-Sensitivity Mic In, Low-Sensitivity Mic In, and Line In.  My conclusion: Go Line In and keep a 20dB pad handy if you're recording at a loud venue.
http://www.wildlife-sound.org/equipment/himd/himdpklevels_meas.html 

Listening is believing.  Here's a link to a Quicktime movie that attempts to show how quiet the preamp of the Hi-MD recorder is, compared to the Microtrack and the Sound Devices 722. 
http://www.wildlife-sound.org/equipment/himd/himdlisten.html

These three web sources tested the Sony MZ-NH700, a first-generation Hi-MD machine.  There's no confirmation from Sony, but it appears that the same preamp design and components are used in all Hi-MDs.  One interesting note on the Nature Recordists list reports that the nice OLED display on the latest-and-greatest MZ-RH1 added a bit of hum to recordings.  The MZ-RH10 also has an OLED display.  Maybe the earlier designs are the best. 

One feature of the NH700 is that it uses a single AA cell rather than a proprietary "gumstick" battery.  Rechargeable AAs and Lithium AA work too.  The NH700's case has a bulge for the battery, which some people don't like.

It's hard to find a new MZ-NH700 these days.  It's a model that was sold in Asia and Australia.  The nearly identical MZ-NHF800 was sold in USA.  New and used models can be found on eBay.

Flintstone

[silentmark]

The 2 gig limit seems to make 24/96 slightly impractical - perhaps a minor inconvenience that you can work around - but I can see it being a hassle - just like a tape flip...take your eye off the ball for a second - and yer screwed...

It will start another file, just not seemless, I think you lose about 5 seconds ...

[powermonkey]

Is it possible to patch from the MT to minidisc, so that you could use the MD to cover the gap between the 2gig files? That probably sounds stoopid, I know, but at least you'd not be losing 5 seconds.

[mrsoul]

why not get 2 Hi-MD and hot-swap when you get to 94 minutes?  The Hi-MD will stay in pause record forever without pulling down the battery.  It's what I do.  Just cut out the swap (it's best between tunes) and you are good to go.

Now, I just sold my RH1 cause I found the proprietary Lithium ion battery a hassle (I had an extra battery too).  I prefer the RH910 with the AA sidecar.  I sold my RH10 to get the RH1 and feel like I made a bad decision.  The RH1's controls were just too small for my fingers.  It sounded good on playback, but I hardly ever use the MD for playback, mainly for recording and then transfers.  I am thinking about the R-09 but not 100% convinced.  Gonna wait to see what shows up this summer on the digital recorder scene.  In the meantime, it's me and the RH910 and a borrowed NH700 for the hot swaps...

Good thread!!!