Topic: inserting delay on one source in Soundforge for matrix

[cbd]

ok, I am using Soundforge so suggestions with Wavelab aren't going to help me. Seems like every person I have talked to recently could only help me in wavelab so I'm hoping someone here can point me in the right direction

I taped several outdoor shows this summer where I got the sbd patch. The mics were about 50 feet from stage just in front of the sbd

recorded all 4 channels using the 744 so usually I just lay the two sources on top of each other using the "Paste Special" function under the EDIT tab on Soundforge.

getting delay issues when I do it but not sure how to add some delay in the post process using Soundforge

there is a Delay/echo tab function under the EFFECTS tab but its not what I need

any suggestions how to do this in Soundforge?

gracias in advance

[kirk97132]

ok, I am using Soundforge so suggestions with Wavelab aren't going to help me. Seems like every person I have talked to recently could only help me in wavelab so I'm hoping someone here can point me in the right direction

I taped several outdoor shows this summer where I got the sbd patch. The mics were about 50 feet from stage just in front of the sbd

recorded all 4 channels using the 744 so usually I just lay the two sources on top of each other using the "Paste Special" function under the EDIT tab on Soundforge.

getting delay issues when I do it but not sure how to add some delay in the post process using Soundforge

there is a Delay/echo tab function under the EFFECTS tab but its not what I need

any suggestions how to do this in Soundforge?

gracias in advance

Craig, I'm not positive but couldn't you insert X amount of silence at the beginning and do a trial and error on the sync?  I know SF has an insert silence function. that allows you to choose the exact amount of silence down to thousands of a second.  From reading here at TS it should be roughly .88ms/foot give or take.  Wish I cold be more help but I still haven't graduated to 4 track.  Planning on an R44 this mid July   Kirk

[cbd]

I think I have seen that function key but have never used it

I'll look tonight

I also thought of when I paste the two sources together put the cursor at the desired time into the start of the sbd source so that it should match them up when I paste in starting at the cursor point. maybe that will work also



one more rudimentary question:

on the clock/timing in Soundforge is 50 m/s equal to :  00.050 or 00.005

[kirk97132]

millisecond = 0.001 seconds  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time
Silence = .88ms X 50 (feet) = 00.044ms.  Look under the process tab then insert silence and set time as needed.  So I'm thinking add the silence to the beginning of your sbd source and paste that into the mic source and if it syncs your golden, otherwise you may need a bit of trial and error.  At least that is what I'd try with to matched sources since you don't need to worry about drift.  Let me know how that works out brother






edited to switch sbd and mic no need to add delay to mics doh!

[cbd]

millisecond = 0.001 seconds  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time
Silence = .88ms X 50 (feet) = 00.044ms.  Look under the process tab then insert silence and set time as needed.  So I'm thinking add the silence to the beginning of your sbd source and paste that into the mic source and if it syncs your golden, otherwise you may need a bit of trial and error.  At least that is what I'd try with to matched sources since you don't need to worry about drift.  Let me know how that works out brother

edited to switch sbd and mic no need to add delay to mics doh!

kirk: that sounds like a solid idea. I will try that & hope for the best

[mmedley.]

In Wavelab..... 


Next time you are in the same situation you could always run a delay on the 2 mic channels of the 744t. Menu options 36, 37, 38, and 39. Just remember, those values on the 744t are in MICROseconds, not milliseconds. 30,000 microseconds = 30 ms. (30ms is the max at 48kHz, 15ms at 96kHz)

[cbd]

In Wavelab..... 


Next time you are in the same situation you could always run a delay on the 2 mic channels of the 744t. Menu options 36, 37, 38, and 39. Just remember, those values on the 744t are in MICROseconds, not milliseconds. 30,000 microseconds = 30 ms. (30ms is the max at 48kHz, 15ms at 96kHz)

that's the problem martin, most people have told me and my own ears have confirmed that under 30-35 feet you don't need delay and the 744 only provides UP TO approximately that distance.......

[mmedley.]

In Wavelab..... 


Next time you are in the same situation you could always run a delay on the 2 mic channels of the 744t. Menu options 36, 37, 38, and 39. Just remember, those values on the 744t are in MICROseconds, not milliseconds. 30,000 microseconds = 30 ms. (30ms is the max at 48kHz, 15ms at 96kHz)

that's the problem martin, most people have told me and my own ears have confirmed that under 30-35 feet you don't need delay and the 744 only provides UP TO approximately that distance.......

You are correct, just more of an FYI. The delay on the 7XX was designed for wireless mics, etc. Barely noticeable at shorter distances. Good luck in your quest to line it all up. Wavelab is the tits. 

[cfox]

why not easily do this in WL5 when you have the program ? Call me.

[morst]

if it syncs your golden

In an ideal situation that is quite possible, but it's still worth checking out the sync. Remember the speed of sound fluctuates according to ambient temperature, and pressure, and humidity seems to affect frequency response.

[PH]

You are really taking the long way around by messing with delay, silence, or whatever.
You need to sync the two sources by both eye and by ear.

The only way to do that is by using a multi-track software program that will enable you to see all of the tracks side by side and slide the tracks where needed.
Such as Vegas, Nuendo, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc.....

Since they are from the same source (744), they will remain in sync for the duration of the recording, so you only need to do it once per recording, or per set.
If they were from two different recorders, you could possibly need to sync the sources every song or two, or you could possibly stretch one of the sources to match the length of the other. 
Sometimes adding a bit of verb or delay on the SBD source can be ear-pleasing, but use it sparingly and wisely.
Good luck, Phil

[cfox]

CBD
 Insert stereo of 1&2, then insert stereo of 3&4, then move the sbd forward until the wav files line up (zoom in to the start of a song, peak, etc) and move the sbd to where it needs to be, and render out...always check the delay, as I have had 5ms to 10ms of delay even with onstage mics...

[cbd]

CBD
 Insert stereo of 1&2, then insert stereo of 3&4, then move the sbd forward until the wav files line up (zoom in to the start of a song, peak, etc) and move the sbd to where it needs to be, and render out...always check the delay, as I have had 5ms to 10ms of delay even with onstage mics...

that sounds like wavelab!

I got it done using kirk's method. I'll keep tinkering to find a different way

[popskull]

I have a similar issue, only its with 2 track stereo recordings

Back in the day, I made a few cass and dats where one channel was sbd or onstage mic and the other was about 30' from the stage....the idea was to mix to mono

So theres a little delay..........you hear the sdb channel drum hit, and hear the slap in the aud channel

Any way to tighten that up by removing a few millisecs from the aud channel in Cool edit or soundforge?

Neither seem to like you doing that to just one channel of a stereo recording

thanks!

[popskull]

I think I answered my own question, wavelab appears to let me trim off of one channel, so I will play around with it and get it right