Topic: Really starting to think I should run the roll-off full time

[Jason B]

Holy crap. The bass is out of control. I love bass, but this is ridiculous. Even in XY, the U89's bring the boom. Leftover Salmon is pounding out of my sub right now. I guess I could just adjust the gain on my sub everytime I play my U89 tapes.  

[jpschust]

hehehe yah the u89s carry some crazy bass.  its tight, but heavy.  i love it.  dude- ive got a solution- start taping rap :-D

[Craig T]

yep, I learned that after running LD's for awhile, namely the Neumann's since the TL's have more natural rolloff and haven't been as bass heavy.  With omnis or cards, I almost always run a mild rolloff with the V3 (& V2 when I had one).  I think I used a -6db/octave slope @ 75Hz.  I don't use rolloff when running hypers from the section or anything on stage.

[zhianosatch]

No shizzle. I bricked the snot out of Schwilly's M1 at Ras Michael, and that bass was child's play compared to Cradle of Filth (when I almost brickwalled the SBM-1's line input) and the latest Static-X show (when -6db/85 Hz wasn't enough avoid bricking my AD-20 - so much for my HPF filter mod).

[Tim]

Dan Estrin told me that he ran the 80hz rolloff on the u89s everytime he taped. They can really bring the thunder Jason, I know it's taken me almost a year now of running them to really get a good feel for when to rolloff and when not to. When run in omni or sub I almost always rolloff, when run in card and upclose I rolloff all the time too.

[Jason B]

Yeah, I think the only time I will not use the roll-off from here on out is when on-stage and when taping acoustic bluegrass. The Salmon show sounds good (minus the fucking idiots who refused to talk to one another in a volume that was not audible by everyone in the club) but the bass is intense. Just a little turn down on the sub and everything is fine. I have a feeling that if I start using the roll-off, I can leave the gain on my sub at the same level that I do for all other shows, and it will sound like it does when I have to turn it down for shows with the U89's with no roll-off. Make sense? The Audio magic Spellcaster's really made an inprovement in the smoothness of the bass as well.

[Jason B]

yep, I learned that after running LD's for awhile, namely the Neumann's since the TL's have more natural rolloff and haven't been as bass heavy.  

Exactly. The TL's sound great with heavy bass due to the natural roll-off. I never made a tape with them that was too bass heavy, but the U89's are a different story. The bass can just get out of control!

[BC]

Dan Estrin told me that he ran the 80hz rolloff on the u89s everytime he taped.

Any idea if Big Cypress NYE 99' U89 FOB's were with the roll off or not? There is some pretty prominent low end on there! If this was WITH, I can't imagine how thunderous it would be without.    

Take care,
Ben

[Jason B]

I'm almost positive Dan ran the roll-off on those omni's.

[Tim]

I'd be suprised to find out that he didn't actually.

Jason, I've got some tapes that will rattle your gut... u89(card/din/fob 18' from the stage)->M148->Mod SBM-1 will shake your house!

[baustin]

I've been running the u89's for about 4 years now and have consistently found them to sound better with the 80Hz rolloff turned on. I ran my u89's for the first time under the guidance of Dan Estrin during the summer Phish tour of 2000 and I remember him saying that he always ran with the rolloff activated.

BTW, there were some u89 pics from Big Cypress circulating a few years ago. I'll see if I still have them.

-Bryan

[Brian]

FWIW i run TL>v2>modsbm1 and pretty much use the hpf's on the V2 at all times.  since you can customize them by changing out the jumpers i have the hpfs set for all the different indoor venues i tape in locally.  we'll see how the combo sounds outside, probably won't need to use them unless i'm pretty far FOB.  

[Tim]

I've been running the u89's for about 4 years now and have consistently found them to sound better with the 80Hz rolloff turned on. I ran my u89's for the first time under the guidance of Dan Estrin during the summer Phish tour of 2000 and I remember him saying that he always ran with the rolloff activated.

BTW, there were some u89 pics from Big Cypress circulating a few years ago. I'll see if I still have them.

-Bryan

I'd love to see those pics Bryan!

[F.O.Bean]

I've been running the u89's for about 4 years now and have consistently found them to sound better with the 80Hz rolloff turned on. I ran my u89's for the first time under the guidance of Dan Estrin during the summer Phish tour of 2000 and I remember him saying that he always ran with the rolloff activated.

BTW, there were some u89 pics from Big Cypress circulating a few years ago. I'll see if I still have them.

-Bryan

I'd love to see those pics Bryan!

me too

[twoodruff]

Holy crap. The bass is out of control. I love bass, but this is ridiculous. Even in XY, the U89's bring the boom. Leftover Salmon is pounding out of my sub right now. I guess I could just adjust the gain on my sub everytime I play my U89 tapes.  

No rolloff EVAH here. I may use it at bonaroo if I run the omni's and will def try on the subs.

[nic]

dont use rolloff either. LOVE the fat/deep bass of LD mics!!
for boomy shows I would rather switch mic patterns to hyper or XY config than use rolloff

[Tim]

dont use rolloff either. LOVE the fat/deep bass of LD mics!!
for boomy shows I would rather switch mic patterns to hyper or XY config than use rolloff

u89 bass and TL bass are two very different animals  

[Jason B]

u89 bass and TL bass are two very different animals  

Completely. From experience in owning and running both, you cannot make this statement without running the U89i's first.

I ran the roll-off for the Truckers last night, and there is a noticable lack of bass in the tape now from what I am used to. Ran subcards NOS. I should have just dealt with the boom and let it ride...

[Tim]

It's still hit or miss for me too Jason... sometimes it feels like too much.

[marc0789]

I can see why you might not want to run u89>m148>mme. you almost need the v3 to settle that low end down. Can't imagine how fat u89>m148>modsbm1 sounded.

[Tim]

Monstrous....

I'll get you some tapes once finals end this week!

[Jason B]

I ran U89i > m148 > MMe many times last summer, and those tapes sounded great. In the big sheds though, the straight U89 > V3 tapes sound killer.

[Jason B]

Listening to U89i > m148 > V3 from Charlotte last summer 7/25/03. Sounds AWESOME. Damn Tim, am I going to have to buy an m148?

[twoodruff]

Listening to U89i > m148 > V3 from Charlotte last summer 7/25/03. Sounds AWESOME. Damn Tim, am I going to have to buy an m148?

i can answer that for you, YES. In time you should get one, this is the combo I tried to get you to run every night.

[Jason B]

this is the combo I tried to get you to run every night.

but you still love me regardless.  

[BC]

u89 bass and TL bass are two very different animals  

Completely. From experience in owning and running both, you cannot make this statement without running the U89i's first.

I ran the roll-off for the Truckers last night, and there is a noticable lack of bass in the tape now from what I am used to. Ran subcards NOS. I should have just dealt with the boom and let it ride...

There are internal jumpers for changing the setpoints as well as roll off slope of the HPF in the V3. You might be able to tweak the roll off to make it a little less noticeable.

Take care,
Ben

[Jason B]

There are internal jumpers for changing the setpoints as well as roll off slope of the HPF in the V3. You might be able to tweak the roll off to make it a little less noticeable.

Take care,
Ben

Thanks Ben, I'll look into that!

[twoodruff]

this is the combo I tried to get you to run every night.

but you still love me regardless.  

i do and would send that m148 back to you as long as its not needed around here

[Jason B]

i do and would send that m148 back to you as long as its not needed around here

 

Thanks to the extreme generosity of the gear librarian, I am currently sitting on an m148. I will definitely take you up on your offer though Trey when I need to send this one back. I definitely want to run U89 > m148 > V3 for Fall Phish...

[Tim]

hell yeah!

[Jason B]

hell yeah!

   :headbang:

[hexyjones]

just coming out of nowhere on this thread...

but with all the audio wizardry we have access to - isn't it better to run the mics wide open and adjust the bass later in one of the popular editors...I always thought the general audio/mixing philosophy was "it's easier to take away from what's already there, than to add what doesn't exist..."

Also - remember there's a whole lot of audiophile types that think subwoofers suck dog...I'd review my recordings on a good high-resolution 2 channel system...

[Jason B]

I am going to run at an outdoor festival today and tomorrow. I've decided that I am going to run subcards NOS or DIN with no rolloff (the horror!). Source will be U89i > m148 > V3. I'll post the results later.

[BCostigan]

In most of the sources I have with u89s the bass isn't too overwealming...in fact I wish it was a little stronger.   I assume the roll off was used in the sources I have.....too bad there isn't a middle ground between thunder and wanting more.  FWIW I'd love to hear something with no roll off!!

[Jason B]

In most of the sources I have with u89s the bass isn't too overwealming...in fact I wish it was a little stronger.   I assume the roll off was used in the sources I have.....too bad there isn't a middle ground between thunder and wanting more.  FWIW I'd love to hear something with no roll off!!

Send my two 60m DATs and I'll send you a copy of my RWTC show. You're gonna blow your subwoofer...

[Jason B]

I may try to run the 50hz rolloff on the V3 today since I will be A) outdoors in an open air environment B) I'll be running the subcards. I may let it ride though and bring the boom.

You live, you learn, and then you get Luvs.  

[nickgregory]

your assuming they are going to have a PA capable of bringing the boom...I envision a couple kenwood speakers on the back of a flatbed

[Mic D]

your assuming they are going to have a PA capable of bringing the boom...I envision a couple kenwood speakers on the back of a flatbed

What he said...

[Jason B]

your assuming they are going to have a PA capable of bringing the boom...I envision a couple kenwood speakers on the back of a flatbed

Have you ever been to one of these? They usually rent a nice PA for the stages. It usually sounds pretty good. I am sure the tapes will come out nice. If I get out there, and they have severely skimped on the sound system, I won't tape. I doubt that will be the case though.

Also, I'm not so sure I am going to go down so early anymore. If my memory srves me correctly, it never getss really crowded down there, so I may head down right before the Europa Jazz Quartet, around 2 pm.

[nickgregory]

never been, so yes I am being argumnetative...  I am sure it is a nice setup though...I am still in awe of the setup that cityfest had....really, really nice sounding....

looking at the schedule I am thinking europa and col bruce may be the best bets today....probably get there by 2 as well...only thing that concerns me is the line on the site of be prepared to park blocks away, we get 75k people to these things....whatever though..just hauling the rig and a couple of bag chairs!

[Jason B]

Well, let's plan to meet there around 2:15/2:30 then. You bringing the wife? I would like to get the Dave Samuals set, just not sure how the whole set timimg will play out.

[nickgregory]

yup, sue is coming....I am planning on just getting the europa and code talker sets, but if Codetalkers end early, I may run to the dave samuels stage...need to see how they have the two stages set up as well....

just went outside, quite a bit breezy, time to break out the big ass windscreens

[tadjblack]

Jason, bring your headphones, and kick in and out of hpf2. Its a soft enough change that you won't go when you hear the differences. rolling off below 50hz isn't that great a risk.

I've been playing around with it, alot, with the *Hutchins Consort, and you can barely hear a difference when the switch was thrown. And if not carefully plotted out, I doubt you'd find where the differences are in playback.
In noisy rooms (ac systems) I will often times run hpf2 on the treble side of the room, and leave the bass open.
result: total bonus of purity of highs without muddy bass bleed over, and plenty of bass in the appropriate channel. You wouldn't be able to attribute it to hpf2 in one channel w/out me telling you though.

*btw, the Hutchins Consort plays in a "U" that allows the highs to be isolated to the left channel, and lows to the right, with the mids split between left and right channels.

I need to do some orchestra taping- sounds like fun stuff

[Jason B]

Alright, just got back from the Col. Bruce Hampton set. I ran subs DIN with no rolloff, and the tape sounds excellent. I'm sure Nick will chime in here in a bit as well about how his came out. It was an open air setup, and I am pretty pleased with the results.

Really looking forward to the C. Hunter set tomorrow. We were on the "city" stage which is the smaller of the two with a far inferior PA compared to the "main" stage. Hopefully we'll have even better results tomorrow.

[nickgregory]

no rolloff run, and the tapes smoke (as expected for the gefells ).  That being said, the tapes need more critical listen, but there was no low end when listening today live, but the mics compensated well....will be interested to hear tomorrow on the better PA/stage

[Gordon]

I've been running the u89's for about 4 years now and have consistently found them to sound better with the 80Hz rolloff turned on. I ran my u89's for the first time under the guidance of Dan Estrin during the summer Phish tour of 2000 and I remember him saying that he always ran with the rolloff activated.

BTW, there were some u89 pics from Big Cypress circulating a few years ago. I'll see if I still have them.

-Bryan

+t for your panic fob from colimbia.  I patched out of you.  those tapes smoke  :afro: