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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: Tim on April 12, 2004, 08:37:39 PM
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Hey guys, I'm borrowing Nate's V3 for Vegas and am planning on running m148->V3. I've heard conflicting reports about using the -20db pad. If I can avoid using it that would be great. Any thoughts?
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Curious on why this setup? Are you able to fine tune the gain with the V3? Using the V3 just for a/d? I know you're borrowing the V3 but I'm curious why someone would run this setup.
Definatly not flaming...just genuinely curious. :)
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Though I only ran this rig a handful of times, I never had to use the pads. I set the V3 to 10 and went from there. Usually needing no more than 15db from the V3. A few times, i set the V3 at 10 and only need to use the trim knobs to get the perfect amount of gain.
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guess Jason answered that one for me........... :scared:
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Thanks Jason!
Brian, yeah I'm just using it as an a/d... I want the low end thump of the m148 and a clean a/d to go behind the u89s.
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and a huge wallet taboot :-) Tim, when you bill yourself at 300/hr i cant wait to see what you are running :-)
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and a huge wallet taboot :-) Tim, when you bill yourself at 300/hr i cant wait to see what you are running :-)
hell he wont have time to run anything with all the work he will have to do...Tim, let me go on record that your gear is welcome here in the state of NC whenever it needs a workout... ;D
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Though I only ran this rig a handful of times, I never had to use the pads. I set the V3 to 10 and went from there. Usually needing no more than 15db from the V3. A few times, i set the V3 at 10 and only need to use the trim knobs to get the perfect amount of gain.
what he said
trey
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Do any of you know anyone that's been running this combo? I'm gonna try it this weekend for the first time myself. So far the 4's>V3 isn't doing it for me.
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Do any of you know anyone that's been running this combo? I'm gonna try it this weekend for the first time myself. So far the 4's>V3 isn't doing it for me.
I've just run it with the U89's 5 or 6 times...
I think maybe Trey has run it more though...
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Do any of you know anyone that's been running this combo? I'm gonna try it this weekend for the first time myself. So far the 4's>V3 isn't doing it for me.
i have, and william boswell ran 4s>m148>v3 for most of fall last yr. To me it just brings things closer, the soundstage is not so far out in the recording, I find it to be my favorite so far
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Trey- I hope my ears get the same result. Duh, I'd forgotten about William. I'll have to hit him up for some tapes.
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I ran this combo with some 480's and schoeps last spring and did some
comparisons at shows and in some small bars. Every time the m148>V3
combo was more direct sounding than the straight V3(like Trey said) it
just brings the music closer. Actually what I think it does is the M148 doesn't pick up as many reverberant noise reflections from a room
(esp. in a bar) as the straight V3 with 25-35db of gain. The V3 is so
producive of what you hear it picks up alot of the "room". The m148 seems to tame this since most of your gain (-20db) is derived from it.
The lowest gain setting on the V3 is sometimes still too hot, but don't worry if you see overs b/c you will never clip it running it so low,believe me. You will have waveforms that cut, so you will lose some dynamics, (but I doubt you would ever hear it) so if your anal about waveforms beware. I loved the combo with both AKG omni's and mk21's the best.
happy gearing,
callery
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Thanks so much all, what Trey and Callery are reporting is exactly what I'm hoping for out of the combo.
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Thanks Jason!
Brian, yeah I'm just using it as an a/d... I want the low end thump of the m148 and a clean a/d to go behind the u89s.
try the mytek.the metering sucks but quality is superb.
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thanks for the heads up Muj, what's the price on that thing... it looked pretty cool.
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not sure Tim.you better call Nathan at atlasproaudio.com,i bought my adc2496 from him.they also offer return policy.the designer Michal is also very fun to talk with.
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thanks Muj!
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Luke, you must overcome your fear of the tiny screwdriver....Luke..... 8)
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I ran the 148>V3 a few times & liked it but after a while preferred just the straight V3 & sold my brick to some other crackhead who runs dull ass mics on this board. I miss it now, I should have sold the mics & kept the brick :)
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Actually what I think it does is the M148 doesn't pick up as many reverberant noise reflections from a room
(esp. in a bar) as the straight V3 with 25-35db of gain. The V3 is so
producive of what you hear it picks up alot of the "room".
This makes no sense to me. We are talking about a preamp, not a microphone. I can see using these descriptions when desrcibing a microphone, but a preamp? The 148 is just boosting the signal of the mics, not picking up sounds, reverberant noise or lack there of. A preamp does not pick up any room, mics do. I occasionally see people say these things about pre's, and it makes absolutely no sense to me. ???
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Well it does make some sense, it's a little tough for me to explain but I think there are alot of spatual clues or subtle nuances that the V3 get's right when cranked on higher gain, such as 30-40 db that will not be as present when used at 10db gain as it is when used with a 148. I think the 148 does a superb job at fattening up the sound but I do not find it to sound incredibly revealing or detailed. It will provide more of a dynamic impact but still needs the V3 to provide that last bit of room cues to get it right IMO.
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I agree on the fact that the 148 does sound "fat", and some pre's can sound "thin", and others "tubby", but I do not get how it can "pick up more reverberant noise". I can understand the fact that at certain gain settings, a preamp may show some emphasis on certain freqeuncies, but I just can't grasp the fact that it "picks up room noise". I can see that it may reveal more detail in your recordings than you are used to hearing due to how clean the V3 is, but I just don't see that it has anything to do with what the mics are picking up.
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I think the 148 does a superb job at fattening up the sound but I do not find it to sound incredibly revealing or detailed.
My thoughts, exactly!
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I agree on the fact that the 148 does sound "fat", and some pre's can sound "thin", and others "tubby", but I do not get how it can "pick up more reverberant noise". I can understand the fact that at certain gain settings, a preamp may show some emphasis on certain freqeuncies, but I just can't grasp the fact that it "picks up room noise". I can see that it may reveal more detail in your recordings than you are used to hearing due to how clean the V3 is, but I just don't see that it has anything to do with what the mics are picking up.
great posts here..keep em coming. a mic pre will ofcourse boost the signal,no doubt.But the issue here is if the mic pre is extracting maximum
information from the mics.For instance my grace v3 and gordon are both considered transparent,but the gordon reveals more room sound,details.the fidelity is greater and bandwidth as well.not to mention the resolution is spectacular.
so i agree with jason,it does not help the mics,but the mic reflects what's being extracted ,how much and if it's altering the information(coloration)
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I ran this combo on quite a few occasions this fall with super cards in front. I did so to warm up the sound that usually is evident in super/hyper card recordings where the bass gets rolled off. IMO, it was a perfect match. With the straight v3, I hear more details of the reverberant sounds in the room. When I add the m148 to the mix, the tapes I pull had a smoother, more analog sound. Some of the detail was left out was not as present. This is generally a good thing if you are recording in a not so good sounding room.
I think JasonB and Callery are caught up in an issue of semantics. The 148 adds the equivalent of "dither" in the analog stage by warming over some of the details that the mics pick up (yes, I know dither refers to the a/d stage, but in this case, it makes for a good analogy). The v3 accurately represents the information it receives and lays the tracks on tape.
Money not an object, I would run the mk41>m148>v3 combo indoors every night and perhaps even in a shed, but outdoors or onstage, I would run straight mk21>v3.
Frank, if you want some m148>v3 tapes/discs, lmk. I can send both section and fob sources.
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Frank, if you want some m148>v3 tapes/discs, lmk. I can send both section and fob sources.
Ditto. I also have a few of Bos's crappy recordings. :P
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Frank, if you want some m148>v3 tapes/discs, lmk. I can send both section and fob sources.
Ditto. I also have a few of Bos's crappy recordings. :P
No thanks, I've got plenty of crappy recordings that I've made to listen to. ;D ;D ;D
I'll give ya'll a shout.
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. With the straight v3, I hear more details of the reverberant sounds in the room. When I add the m148 to the mix, the tapes I pull had a smoother, more analog sound. Some of the detail was left out was not as present. This is generally a good thing if you are recording in a not so good sounding room.
I think JasonB and Callery are caught up in an issue of semantics.
Thanks william, I should have made myself a little more clear.
When i went back and read my post I realized my thoughts didn't come
out in greatest detail. I agreed with what jasonB was saying :)
I think we are all on the same page, my page is just half torn...
callery
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but don't worry if you see overs b/c you will never clip it running it so low,believe me. You will have waveforms that cut, so you will lose some dynamics, (but I doubt you would ever hear it) so if your anal about waveforms beware.
You may not be able to hear it depending on the duration, but a cut waveform is clipping.
mitch
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it's very hard to clip the v3. i believe grace said it's got a hard limit on it to help prevent actual overs
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A preamp in mathematical terms is a voltage multiplier. It multiplies noise and the intended signal. Resistors generate noise, so do microphone capsules. Mics hear what they hear, and they generate a line level signal that is then multiplied by the preamp. As part of the voltage multiplication, the preamp adds it's own noise based on the design of the particular preamp, components used (transformers, op amps, etc). A cleaner preamp may add less destructive noise as part of the multiplication, resulting in the impression that the preamp allows the mics to hear more of the room, but in reality, it's doing a better job of multiplying what the mics have already picked up. Preamps can't add detail that isn't already there...it's more a matter of how much they degrade the signal as it moves down the chain...some degrade more than others, and sometimes more (or just different) degradation is a good thing.
-mitch
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it's very hard to clip the v3. i believe grace said it's got a hard limit on it to help prevent actual overs
yeah, but if you continually ram it into the hard limiter, you'll see squared off waves (or very close too it). whether it truly goes over and results in a square wave clip or the hard limiter compresses it rapidly to 0db is almost a matter of semantics, the end result is not ideal. if it was, I would just peg my ad1000, turn the soft limit on and go drink beer.
mitch
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i believe grace said it's got a hard limit on it to help prevent actual overs
Haven't heard this before - curious where you heard this and if you (or anyone else) can confirm?
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it's very hard to clip the v3.
agreed, but I think in the situation where one is running an external pre in front of it the bigger risk is overloading the the mic inputs (with the -20dB pads off).
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Tim, by the way, im eating my words since im going to be running 4022 > m148 > v3 :-) eating them happily, but eating them nonetheless.
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so should the jumpers def be put on -20db if running the 148 in front??
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this is what im not sure about, mainly because i dont have my v3 yet, but theoretically shouldnt the v3 adjust for line input rather than mic input?
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don't worry your v3 will be in the mail tomorrow morning ;) hopefully you'll get some use out of her since i never got a chance to run it in the field....
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it's very hard to clip the v3. i believe grace said it's got a hard limit on it to help prevent actual overs
yes.yes.yes.
the mytek doesn't..so watch out!boom!
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don't worry your v3 will be in the mail tomorrow morning ;) hopefully you'll get some use out of her since i never got a chance to run it in the field....
that should be a crime ;D
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i plan on using it in the field and in the studio too. i may try and use the 148 in the studio, though practically for what i record i dont think its gonna serve much purpose in the studio. i tend not to buy "warm" stuff for the studio, generally things with more "clarity"
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I ran the 4022>148>V3 combo with & without the -20 jumpers. I ended up not using them so I could swap out the 148 mid set break if I wanted. I wish I labled all the comps so I could go back & re-evaluate what I heard but I'm a burn out.
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Confucious say:
Running m148>v3 like having dog fixed. Dog still able to hump leg, but dog not fuck anymore. ;D
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Confucious say:
Running m148>v3 like having dog fixed. Dog still able to hump leg, but dog not fuck anymore. ;D
HAHA, +T you demented phocker ;D
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so should the jumpers def be put on -20db if running the 148 in front??
I haven't run the -20db pad yet in the 5 or 6 shows I've run the combo for.
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so should the jumpers def be put on -20db if running the 148 in front??
I haven't run the -20db pad yet in the 5 or 6 shows I've run the combo for.
suite, thanks tim :)