Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: ol' dirty taper on April 25, 2008, 11:13:00 PM
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That is my question!
I see a lot of photos in the Rig Pictures section with windscreens on inside venues. Kind of wanted to know the reasoning for that (other than possible AC Fans or other "wind" causing systems). Is it a small/large venue thing?
Reason I am asking is I have a taping tomorrow night at a really large venue with a large seated crowd and if there is a purpose for using the screens indoors at a show like this I would want to test it out or under what conditions should I consider the screens. I have seen that the screens do muffle a bit of the really loud applauds in the past.
So some clarification would be great!
Thanks
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don't forget about smoke
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Moke
Thanks for the quick reply. I kind of figured it was due to AC systems/fans but wanted to be sure. Kind of feel stupid now second guessing myself!
Darby
I live in the fortunate state of CA where we banned all indoor smoking! Sucks for some people but it's awesome for my gear!
Thanks
+Ts guys
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When in doubt, +windscreen. ;D
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I've been totally blown away indoors.
It's happened to me also, but not the way your talking about. ;)
don't forget about smoke
What's the deal with the smoke?
Gabriel
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It leaves a very nasty film on things; the interior of your lungs, your skin, the body and diaphragm of the mic (the diaphragm is what you really want to protect) basically anything it comes in contact with. Ever noticed how your clothes and hair smell after a night in a smoky bar? Your mics can acquire the same odor and you don't want that residue/film on your diaphragm which would take a visit to a qualified service center to remove. Pure speculation on my part but repeated exposures to smoke could add a tiny bit of mass to the diaphragm and subtly change the characterisitcs of the mic as well as acting as a sticky trap for any solid airborne particles that encounter the diaphragm and trap them there, further changing the characteristics of the mic.
Having a father who smokes, I hate to visit as my clothes acquire that odor even though they hang in a closet at the other end of the house from the room he smokes in. The smoking room also has a light brownish tint to it the other rooms don't have and it's darkest directly above the ashtray on his desk.
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always use them, if you don't need really need them there is no harm in having them there, if you do need them they will save your recording, if you need them and do not have them your recording will be unusable and the act of recording will ultimately be a waste of time
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It is also a little added protection if someone knocks over your stand.
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All valid points, maybe I'll roll tape with the screens on tonight. I always pack everything to do with my gear and end up carrying 1 extra bag for "just in case" scenarios.
What do you guys think about excessive cologne/perfume exposure to unprotected mics? I ask because I was looking at some nice vocal mics used by some guy at his home studio and his room/studio just reeked of Curve cologne and after getting a deal on the new mic, I got home and could still smell that awful stuff on the mic for at least a day. I couldnt help but think about whats evaporating off the internal parts of the mic.
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i think cologne/perfume will be an alcohol based substance which will have much higher evaporative quality than smoke. i don't see how that could be an issue. ymmv
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I've never used windscreens indoors. I've never had a fan/ac audible on one of my recordings. Obviously it can't hurt, but I think for most indoor scenarios it's just kind of anal. Then again I used to be a lot more anal about my gear and recordings.
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I've never used windscreens indoors. I've never had a fan/ac audible on one of my recordings. Obviously it can't hurt, but I think for most indoor scenarios it's just kind of anal. Then again I used to be a lot more anal about my gear and recordings.
I hear you, kind of never made sense to use them indoors unless in direct line of attack of fans, which of course in most instances, I would move the mics. There has even been times I didnt bother using windscreens outdoors in some summer sheds, most notably Panic in Bethel last year. I use screens as little as possible, no matter what you think, they are affecting the sound.
As far as smoke goes...I am a smoker and have smoked right next to the same pair of MK4V's for the last 10 years and they still sound the same as they did when they were new.
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A better question would be, "Is there ever an occasion when I should not use windscreens?"
I always use windscreens no matter where I'm taping. I've had issues because I hadn't used them indoors on the few occasions. If someone opens a door to let some air in, or an AC or fan kicks on, or a balloon hits the cap and pops then you'd be sorry you didn't. Better to be safe than sorry.
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I had this same question in my head not long ago and studied the indoor rig shots people posted. Looks like 95% of the time people are using screens, so I am going to follow the masses on this one.
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I use them for what they are intended to do, prevent blowing wind effects on the capsules. Once, I taped WSP at Baltimore's Pier 6 in '96 and forgot my screens. Even with the constant wind off the harbor, the sound pressure of the PA FOB was so strong that there was no wind noise during the music. It was the opposite of what I expected.
However, this was a fluke and I always use them outside because you can't luck out like this very often.
For indoors:
Air/wind blowing - I use them
No air/wind blowing - I don't because of the audible effect of the slight roll off at the higher frequencies.
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Indoor HVAC distortions to microphones without foams during chamber music. The wind/air movement could not be felt.
YUP - you can't always here the wind noise, but it's there. Talk to mic repair people as well - smoke residue can build up over time on the diaphragm of the mics as well as in the lungs just above your diaphragm. One might cause sound quality issues, the other may cause you to die of cancer. YMMV.
PS - Moke - what software are you using on the mac?
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I always use the little windscreens that came with my SPC4s indoors.
They fit my Pelusos well, offer no real protection from more than the slightest breeze but I feel better knowing the mics have a line of defense from smoke or thrown beer..etc
I don't think I've ever heard a ventilation system on one of my recordings but I record 95% loud amplified bands.
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always. aside from wind that you don't notice while setting up -- when the place is empty it's not as warm as when it's filled with sweaty freaks... they might not turn on the blowers for a while..
condenser mics attract particulates when operating as they carry a static charge. it's not smoke alone as a lot of places are smoke free, but all kinds of dust that exist when people shuffle around, wind blows, etc
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I use screens as little as possible, no matter what you think, they are affecting the sound.
Same here. But they are an absolute necessity when running outdoors if there is ANY chance of wind, and in certain cases indoors (A/C vent right near the best taping spot in particular)
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Cards are more sensitive. I always put windscreens on mine. Omnis, only when there is a noticeable breeze. I have only used my omnis inside so far and have not put windscreens on them. Somewhere on the mfr's site they mention pouring talcom powder on the diapragms of the omnis with no measureable effect. I will not pour talc on mine. But I could! LOL
I have huge Rycote windscreens for the cards outside.
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First off, I use the Big-Ass Shures ALL THE TIME outdoors. I use the bigger DPA screens indoors and they are ALWAYS on my MBHO Capsules on my DINa KwonBar for protection when transporting them, and they stay on the capsules from around end of summer til around May when I start seeing shows outdoors. They also help protect from smoke, and they just make me feel better in case some drunk w00k knocks my stand over, the capsules would be ALOT more safe taking a hit like that w/ the DPA screens, than w/ out them ;) I still duct tape my stand down to the ground, and guard it the whole show mostly, but ANYTHING can happen. The only time IU have personally seen a stand go down was late into Phish's Y@K Millenium set til sunrise, and it was NOT pretty :( It may not happen alot, but the possibility is ALWAYS there for me, and possibly alot of you tapers as well, depending on what type of music and venues and crowds you're into.
So I would say I am "PRO SCREENS 100% OF THE TIME" ;D
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Thanks guys.
All some really great input. I didnt realize the condensers attract dust... most definitely an issue for my mc930s.
I am trying to take recording shows more seriously lately so this really helped a lot. Tomorrow I am taping Dark Meat in their hippy tour bus, 17pc band. No telling what kind of dust/residue could get kicked up in that thing!! ;)
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I hear that ganja smoke leaves a terribly sticky residue on mic diaphragms. But if you partake enough you just wont care!
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I live in the fortunate state of CA where we banned all indoor smoking! Sucks for some people but it's awesome for my gear!
I guess that ban does not apply to weed - since the two shows I attended at the GAMH was a major smokefest (not that I'm complaining)
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I live in the fortunate state of CA where we banned all indoor smoking! Sucks for some people but it's awesome for my gear!
I guess that ban does not apply to weed - since the two shows I attended at the GAMH was a major smokefest (not that I'm complaining)
I'm sure that was all medical use...
I too have had indoor recordings blown because of moving air from fans etc. One of the worst spots is under the mirror ball at the SF Fillmore, when that blower is going watch out! I routinely use the thin Schoeps foam dust covers on my mics indoors if I don't expect moving air, but if it looks like there's any chance of that the B5Ds go on. Wind noise can be very hard to remove in post.
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I use screens as little as possible, no matter what you think, they are affecting the sound.
Same here. But they are an absolute necessity when running outdoors if there is ANY chance of wind, and in certain cases indoors (A/C vent right near the best taping spot in particular)
Same thing here.
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Here's a related question I've been wondering about: when taping outdoors and using rats, do you still use the windscreen or does the rat do everything you need?
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Here's a related question I've been wondering about: when taping outdoors and using rats, do you still use the windscreen or does the rat do everything you need?
I just had my first experience using Dead Rats. I had some made for me for both my Busman BSC1's and my Berliner CM 33's. These were nice long haired blue rats that covered the entire mic, velcroed close on the bottom by the shockmount. They had a hole at the rear (were talking rats here so I am not going to use any colorful phrases) for the back of the mic to stick out so I could connect my XLR jack. They were designed to go over my WindTech windscreens.
I was really sceptical and worried about loss of high end. Also I had them mad and brought them to the 10klf festival, which is at times extremely "knock your stand down" windy.
I was stunned to find that I had no loss of sound, they performed flawlessly, and so far I have heard one gust of wind, slightly during some talking between songs. Thay exceeded my expectations by a large margin. I know from other recordings of the same sets from other tapers that wind was a factor too, so I am happy as can be.
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Another reason to use windscreens is the amount of wind coming from a PA system there is alot of air movement and if you have ever been in front of a big stack of sub woofers you will know what I am talking about. That accounts for nearly 50% of the claims for overloading mics. Yet another good reason to keep the windscreens on.
Chris
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Ever since Wilco 7-10-2006 they never come off. Indoor venue. Taped there plenty of times. Decided to throw the stand up extra high to cut down on crowd noise and happened to be right in the path of the ventilation (couldn't tell from looking). Low sporadic rumbling between songs and during quiet interludes. Lesson learned.
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Windscreens are condoms for microphones. Practice safe recording. You never know when an 'accident' might happen.