Im using m10 with dpa 4061s and bbox,(mic in pip off)audio is to be used for bluray concert video,bluray spec allows 16bit 48k or 24bit 48k.with this deck will i notice better quality with 24bit?should i record 24bit 96k?what is the point of diminishing returns?
I just noticed that B&H Photo Video is selling the Sony PCM-M10 this morning for $199. You have to add the item to the shopping cart to see the low price.Oh man! and I thought I got the best deal paying only $235 after Bing Instant Cashback from a seller on eBay for my Sony PCM-M10 ! Wow that is a nice price for $199. It definitely would make this one of the best buys out there now.
Yesterday, B&H's price was $251. So the $199 price may not last long.
Flintstone
The only thing I don't like about this recorder is the lack of a digital input. Is there anything comparable that has a digital in?
The only thing I don't like about this recorder is the lack of a digital input. Is there anything comparable that has a digital in?
discussed many times.
sony d50 has the optical cable input as well as 16 bit iriver and hi-md recorders. the pmd 661 and pmd 671 are both 24 bit.
personally, if you want digital input, I would consider the r-44 since the d50 is only optical and the 661 and 671 are pricey new...although you could probably find them for a good price on the board.
I just noticed that B&H Photo Video is selling the Sony PCM-M10 this morning for $199. You have to add the item to the shopping cart to see the low price.
Yesterday, B&H's price was $251. So the $199 price may not last long.
Flintstone
A friend of mine just picked one of these up and she is now in need of a few 16gb memory cards, any recommendations?
A friend of mine just picked one of these up and she is now in need of a few 16gb memory cards, any recommendations?
i have a 16 gig sandisk that I got from Buy.com for about $40. so I have almost 20 gigs of recording time in my recorder.
Any chance it is this model? http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microSDHC-Memory-SDSDQ-016G-Packaging/dp/B001L1H0SC (http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microSDHC-Memory-SDSDQ-016G-Packaging/dp/B001L1H0SC)
I just noticed that B&H Photo Video is selling the Sony PCM-M10 this morning for $199. You have to add the item to the shopping cart to see the low price.
Yesterday, B&H's price was $251. So the $199 price may not last long.
Flintstone
Here's the link for the free case:
https://www.rebate-zone.com/default.asp?PN=SY00122k7&DirectID=32746
Can I run them directly into the deck via xlr to mini plug mic in ? or would I be better off feeding them from my mx-100 via rca ->mini 1/8 - Line in ?
Thanks
Brian
Is this free case supposed to be only for business-related purchases of the M10? It's asking me for my business name and business type, and won't let me get any further without picking one and giving them a name.The online rebate is probably for businesses, but you can mail it in. Is the case any good? Has anyone seen this case?
from http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat-recorders/product-PCMM10%2FB/ (http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat-recorders/product-PCMM10%2FB/)
(Stereo Mini Jack) Input impedance: 22k ohms; Minimum input level: 500mV; Rated input level: 2.0V
Guysonic, MorstHot mic is, in this case, is one with high output signal; typical of 48 volt external to deck powered mics.
sorry for my ignorance but hot mic is not the same as saying phantom power? ??? and the Sony M-10 does not support that....
Has anyone used the M-10 in a shirt pocket to record loud music. Do the omni mics pick up a lot of the crowd noise when using the m-10 in this manner. I currently have a Zoom H2 and use it mostly in the 90deg mode.if it was me i would try and find someone to split this buy 1 get 1 deal
Thanks
Any thoughts on how the SP-CMC-2's would work with the Sony PCM-M10 ?The mics will work with M10's ~2.5 volt mic powering, but not to full low distortion potential without using a 9 volt BB.
Would the Sony PCM-M10 plug-in power be enough or do I need to get a BB as well, trying to keep as stealth as possible..but do not want to get distortion so will get BB if needed..
Thanks for the thread you guys! After doing a quick read through this and also a few reviews elsewhere, I was blown away, so earlier today I jumped on an M10 at B&H for the aformentioned 199 bucks. How could you go wrong at that price?
Can someone please link me to Sony PCM-M10 threads Part 1 and Part 2?
Thanks!
Dave
Anyone heard the rumors about the M11?What have you?
Anyone heard the rumors about the M11?What have you?
Thanks for the thread you guys! After doing a quick read through this and also a few reviews elsewhere, I was blown away, so earlier today I jumped on an M10 at B&H for the aformentioned 199 bucks. How could you go wrong at that price?
Can someone please link me to Sony PCM-M10 threads Part 1 and Part 2?
Thanks!
Dave
Thanks, Freelunch - found it!
Dave, just go to the first message in this topic and you will find a link to the other parts
Why not just make it go to 10... and ummm..... make 10 louder?Anyone heard the rumors about the M11?What have you?
It goes to 11.
$199 US dollars is an excellent deal - especially for those in the USA who don't pay exorbitant postage :)
Wanted to order red, but figured black might be better when going low-pro.
just got my recorder but it does not seem to record from line in. is there something i am doing wrong.
it works fine in the mic jack but not the line in jack
it works fine in the mic jack but not the line in jack
turn your gain up on the the 9100 to the max and see if you get an readings on the m10.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital#Speeds
it was the battery, would u reccomend mic senitivity to be high orlow for rock shows and dpc speed control should be off or on. thanks ras
I use and 8gb SDHC card by A-DATA Class 6 and have no issues.
I have been told that class only refers to video and picture speed...not recording audio.
Get a class 6 for any flash card. You'll thank me later. ;)
Get a class 6 for any flash card. You'll thank me later. ;)
What class 6 cards are you running? Any microSD?
-JT
Get a class 6 for any flash card. You'll thank me later. ;)If microSDHC cards were commonly useful for HD video cameras, then getting the far more costly Class 6 rated cards is good advice for having a second application for these. However, very few HD cameras are yet to appear using this smallist of SD card, so not yet a good investment if just needed for audio recording where a good brand Class 2 is plenty for any audio app. If you do have a HD video capable camera using standard SDHC cards, some of the micro cards come with standard card adapter, so same costly Class 6 card might also be used in both the M10 and adapted for your HD camera.
How does the PCM-M10 perform without a preamp in front of it? Either mic in or line in w/ battery box. I was looking at picking up an R09HR but I just read a thread here where some people stated it produces click noises when you adjust the gain on the unit. The M10 has got a really long stated battery life, and it's got USB power, which are both pluses (assuming it runs for as long as the specs say). W/ the B&H price this doesn't sound like a bad option for stealthy stuff.
Just get yourself a Sony D-10. Now. You cannot go wrong.
Just get yourself a Sony D-10. Now. You cannot go wrong.
Is that the DAT version of the M10? :P
Got mine the mail yesterday, can't believe how SMALL it is! Really user friendly and super easy to use. Didn't read the instructions, had it up and running in 10 minutes. If you are on the fence about a small >:D recorder look no further!
Barrett
Maiden voyage on my M10 tonight at Paul McCartney. Very easy to use. Piece of cake to sneak in. It's too bad it sounded like poo where I was sitting.
I'll have the rest of my small recorders in the YS when I get a chance to put everything together.
Thoughts?
Here's something interesting ... don't know if it means anything...
...It's almost as if there is half a sample (is that possible?) missing in the right channel of the first file. Can't seem to hear it.
Thoughts?
It's almost as if there is half a sample (is that possible?)
That's weird. Does it happen when it splits on a single card?
It's almost as if there is half a sample (is that possible?)
No such thing as half a sample, no.
Was the most recent file split glitch on the built-in card?
Knowing that it is on the internal eliminates concerns about 3rd party cards.
Is there an option on the m10 to start a new file? You might check the split on that. It's possible the split issue only happens in certain circumstances, like 24/96, etc..
Alright, it's settled. This puppy goes back. Whether splitting a recording within the M10's internal memory, across internal and external memory, or within an external SDHC card, in all cases, a static type noise is introduced just before the file split, something goofy happens with the waveform. I tried also using the TMark function and dividing the tracks, and a small "tick" noise was also introduced at the split point. (BTW, I also used two different, freshly formated SDHC cards.)
I like the aesthetics of the M10 and the feel in the hand. Regretably this one goes back.
Do I just have a defective unit? Should I gamble on swapping this one out? Are these actually reported to do seamless file splits? I thought I read that somewhere, but perhaps not.
Who else has split tracks in one way or another and had good results? Or have you tried yet?
Can we hear what this static noise sounds like? an mp3 or wave would help... :)
Did you have the recorder in a silent room or did you have the gain turned all the way down?
I know in the menu there is an option for cross recording and I thought that was if/when the internal memory fills up, it switches to the external card. It seems that you have that enabled by what you wrote. Is that true?
I'm now running a test to see if I get the same or different results of Carrera2.
1 hour 36 minutes remaining at 96/24. my gain is turned all the way down so absolutely no sound is being recorded.
Good job.
I don't think you will see the issue at that zoom level. You'll need to zoom in until each sample becomes visible as a dot.
It'd also be interesting to know if there is any glitch when the files are joined.
Can't wait until I have enough cash to pick up a pair of CA-11's, I'm sure it will be a big improvement.
Little light in the low frequency department, however.
Little light in the low frequency department, however.
Dunno what kind of wire you're running into the box, but I lost my low end when using a cheapo rca to mini...ran digital into my receiver and, shaplam, I got full frequencies again.
Little light in the low frequency department, however.
Dunno what kind of wire you're running into the box, but I lost my low end when using a cheapo rca to mini...ran digital into my receiver and, shaplam, I got full frequencies again.
Little light in the low frequency department, however.
Dunno what kind of wire you're running into the box, but I lost my low end when using a cheapo rca to mini...ran digital into my receiver and, shaplam, I got full frequencies again.
??? sparkey, not sure i understand what you're saying. i use both a "cheapo" xlr to stereo mini and a "milspec" xlr to stereo mini from the mics to pre/batt box or directly to the M10 and have not noticed any difference in sound quality.
what about battery life? the manual says 23 hours at 24/48 with monitoring. has anyone verified this? anyone using lithium aa's?
Just joined Team M10. Gave it a test run over the weekend. Ran it head to head against the R09HR. Will upload samples to the M10 vs R09HR thread this week.
Very impressed with the ADC. Extremely clean. Reminds me of the V3. Transparent. High frequencies much more recessed than the D50. The main reason I dumped the D50 after 2 shows. Little light in the low frequency department, however.
Hello everyone! I am new here. I ordered mine last Thursday from B&H and got it on Friday. I like it a lot. Believe or not, I found this site yesterday and went throught part 1-3 quickly.I agree with recording at 24/48 . You will need to convert it to 16/44.1 if you want to burn it to cd . Once you are familiar with everything you may want to use a program to make changes to the wave. A good program would be Audacity. You can find advise on this site about it. It is fairly user friendly. You can also use it to convert to mp3. You could also use Cd Wave Editor to split your recording into tracks and convert it to mp3. If you look around the forum you can get lots of useful knowledge. use the search before you ask a lot of questions that are well covered already then ask questions when you get confused about stuff.
I have a few quick questions here. Please forgive me if they were asked (I am sure they were :) ) before.
- Can someone give me a quick guide on the setting of the mic level (Hi vs Low), and the recording level (auto vs manual). Which setting should I use? I am going to use this mainly to record violin solo (coupld fo feet for just violin or maybe 3-4 feet with the piano) and chamber music such as a string quartet ( maybe 3-4 feet away from each player) all using just internal mics.
- Should I always try to record in the highest quality of WAV? Or the mp3 should be OK? What's the best way to convert from WAV to mp3?
- I think 4GB is enough for me to record anything. But I'd also like to use this as a mp3 player. The funcions of changing speed, key and the A-B repeating are realy handy. Should I get a microSDHC or M2 card ( I am thinking about 16GB so I can load a lots of music onto it)? Any suggestion on the brand/model?
Many thanks!
- Can someone give me a quick guide on the setting of the mic level (Hi vs Low), and the recording level (auto vs manual). Which setting should I use? I am going to use this mainly to record violin solo (couple of feet for just violin or maybe 3-4 feet with the piano) and chamber music such as a string quartet ( maybe 3-4 feet away from each player) all using just internal mics.
I have recorded a lot of spoken word and conservations so my answer to your first question applies to that.Thanks! I am using the built-in mics for now and will play with the manual + low setting.
I have my on high sensitivity and manual gain. for music, I think manual gain and low sensitivity would work fine. Do you have a pre-amp? What mics are you using-internal/built in?
recording at 24/48 is what the majority of people do. The recorder can do 24/96 but unless you can hear the difference, go with 24/48 and you'll still be able to hold a lot on your built in 4 gigs.
4 gigs at 24/48 will last about 4 hours handy calculator (http://sounddevices.com/calculator/)
Personally I wouldn't use the m10 as an mp3 player but you certainly are able to. I got a micro SD sandisk 16 gig card for $10-20 more than I should have paid so don't be foolish and pay that much. ;)
check out this card:
SanDisk 16 GB Class 2 microSDHC Flash Memory Card
(http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microSDHC-Memory-SDSDQ-016G-Packaging/dp/B001L1H0SC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1280694234&sr=8-1)
- Can someone give me a quick guide on the setting of the mic level (Hi vs Low), and the recording level (auto vs manual). Which setting should I use? I am going to use this mainly to record violin solo (couple of feet for just violin or maybe 3-4 feet with the piano) and chamber music such as a string quartet ( maybe 3-4 feet away from each player) all using just internal mics.Use manual level. Auto is for something unmusical like speech, where it's not important to preserve dynamics. Do put the Limiter on, just in case you do briefly overload, but it's better if you never need it.
Also, are right-angle mini's generally preferred? Would going straight-in 1/8" be too 'bulky' (using that term loosely)?
Just joined Team M10. Gave it a test run over the weekend. Ran it head to head against the R09HR. Will upload samples to the M10 vs R09HR thread this week.
Very impressed with the ADC. Extremely clean. Reminds me of the V3. Transparent. High frequencies much more recessed than the D50. The main reason I dumped the D50 after 2 shows. Little light in the low frequency department, however.
Did you know there are effects to increase the bass...in playback. its in the effects menu, bass1 or bass2 or off.
Hi, I am new to this forum. I have just spent several hours reviewing all the messages on the M10. I am pretty much convinced I need one of these units but I have some noob questions I hope someone can help me with.
The M10 has some compelling selling points and sounds perfect for my needs except for the stereo separation issue. I would be grateful of your responses and views.
Many thanks.
Have you seen my posts (somewhere here...) where I discussed and demonstrated widening techniques for the M10 - and did I post any ambient examples? If not maybe I should bestir myself and do so. But I have to say although I'm in general an M10 fan, I personally don't like its imaging.
Meanwhile, don't dismiss the H2 - listen to the example posted at http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=104998.msg1401411#msg1401411 (assuming the sample can still be downloaded).
I see Dave. Please excuse my ignorance but how is this done in practice - attaching 2 mics to a single stereo mic input? I gather these would need to be individually powered by battery. Does one use 2 x mono mics spliced into the stereo input? Can anyone provide details of suitable but not overly expensive external mics for this function? I'm pretty new to this entire field and know very little. Any help is appreciated.
The main reason I am interested in the M10 (and D50 to some degree) is for recording ambient soundscapes - waterfalls, babbling brooks, wind, rain, ocean waves, thunder, etc.
I could mention another H2 sample but as this is a PCM-M10 thread I won't. Oh well, as you begged, see http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=11501
There are mics made by chris church. i'll use his ca-1s as an example. they are two mono microphones that terminate to a 1/8" plug that goes in the line-in on the m10. essentially one is left audio and one is right audio. there are single point stereo mics. that means one mic has a capsule for left and a capsule for right audio that plugs into a 1/8" adapter.
what kind of music are you interested in recording? the ca-1 i mentioned does not require a battery box and will run on the plug in power provided by the m10.
You might head over to groups.yahoo.com and review messages on the naturerecordists forum. There's been some traffic about using the M10 for ambient nature sounds. Historically, the Audio Technica AT3032 were regarded as the lowest noise, best value omni mics for nature recording. They would require a preamp, however. I used my Church Audio omnis (CA-11?) that terminate into a stereo mini plug, split about 3 feet the other day to record a chamber music concert and the results were just fine.
Do you have a link for info and pricing on the church CA-11? The only thing I can find is Chinese made cartidges here: http://www.chinese-microphone.com/Microphone-Cartridges.html.
The two mono CA-1 setup might work if it is not too expensive. Can I ask why this plugs in to Line-In and not the mic jack? Also do you have a link for specs and pricing in these mics? All I could find from Googling is a reseller page on eBay selling Church mics and I could not find the CA-1.
Thanks.
Do not ever buy Church Audio gear from his E-Bay site. He gives a discount to tapessection members and much of his equipment is not available there. Send him a PM here.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=14500
My question is whether post production manipulation of the stereo image to produce wider stereo separation loses much signal in the process and sounds ‘natural’. I have heard some samples of this also on this forum and it sounds better than nonprocessed but as I eventually plan to burn these images to CD for family, friends, and patients (I'm a shrink), I want it to sound as natural as possible.Satisfying for what seems important to you means having budget for external mics.
I know very little about external mics except that they seem to be very expensive. I would rather not have to bother with them but if what I want cannot be achieved with internal mics I may have to go that way. Can I ask in practice how this would work given there in only a single stereo in socket? I am guessing you would use two mono mics spliced into the stereo input? Can anyone recommend suitable but not overly expensive external mics for this function? I will be recording in the wilderness so I can’t be lugging too much equipment.
The M10 has some compelling selling points and sounds perfect for my needs except for the stereo separation issue. I would be grateful of your responses and views.
Many thanks.
Do not ever buy Church Audio gear from his E-Bay site. He gives a discount to tapessection members and much of his equipment is not available there. Send him a PM here.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=14500
Great - thanks for the advice and PM address. I will make some enquiries.
I can definitely see less lower frequency content in the internals.
I can definitely see less lower frequency content in the internals.
It's a little hard for me to see, considering one uses a linear horizontal scale, the other log scale. Maybe re-analyze on same scale?
Can I ask Australian members where you purchased your M10?
Got mine here -
http://www.videoguys.com.au/Shop/p/21382/sony-pcm-m10-linear-pcm-portable-audio-recorder-black-pcm-m10-black.html
There are slightly different versions available. Mine came with a dead kitten, and I think that makes it the pro version... The Videoguys page seems not to mention that. I've made a number of purchases from them over several years and they seem ok. It's always good to visit their showroom and mentally caress all that tasty video gear! And that "you must get out your wallet" smell in the air from the warm equipment...
Can I ask Australian members where you purchased your M10?
It is tempting to purchase from the US at a current price of AU$269.40 delivered (B&H). The cheapest delivered price I can find locally seems to be AU$421.05 at TechBuy.com.au or AU$449.00 at Minidisc.com.au
The Sony Australia RRP is AU$449.00 so there is little to no competitive pricing here. In fact, some businesses are advertising the M10 way above the RRP. For instance, you can pick one up at proaudio.com.au for the outrageous price of AU$634.00 delivered!!
My concerns about buying it from the US are the warranty issue and possible import duty. Even if the import duty was on par with the GST I'd still be saving a huge amount. To date I have never had to pay duty on items purchased from the US so I could be lucky.
Can anyone clarify whether the warranty would be transferrable? If it isn't it should be in this day where we effectively live in a global village with various trade agreements in place. Of course I would rather buy locally but the prices here are absolutely absurd and bordering on offensive.
Can I ask Australian members where you purchased your M10?
It is tempting to purchase from the US at a current price of AU$269.40 delivered (B&H). The cheapest delivered price I can find locally seems to be AU$421.05 at TechBuy.com.au or AU$449.00 at Minidisc.com.au
The Sony Australia RRP is AU$449.00 so there is little to no competitive pricing here. In fact, some businesses are advertising the M10 way above the RRP. For instance, you can pick one up at proaudio.com.au for the outrageous price of AU$634.00 delivered!!
My concerns about buying it from the US are the warranty issue and possible import duty. Even if the import duty was on par with the GST I'd still be saving a huge amount. To date I have never had to pay duty on items purchased from the US so I could be lucky.
Can anyone clarify whether the warranty would be transferrable? If it isn't it should be in this day where we effectively live in a global village with various trade agreements in place. Of course I would rather buy locally but the prices here are absolutely absurd and bordering on offensive.
So this 9LE isn't a "Light edition" so to speak? I should check it out? I'm into my 5th year with Audition 1.0 and am pretty happy w/it.
can you set the recording file splits either by time (1 hour) or file size (1GB) or is the default 2GB?
thanks :)
can you set the recording file splits either by time (1 hour) or file size (1GB) or is the default 2GB?
thanks :)
There's no adjustable automatic splitting on this so you're stuck with the 2GB file limit splits. The only thing you could do is to manually insert track marks however often you desire - be it on the unit or via the remote - and then you can divide the track based on all the track marks after the recording is completed.
I was able to discover some "secrets" of M10: >:D
#1: The AD/DA-converter, the headphone amp and the mic amp is all together combined in just one chip: the Cirrus Logic CS42L52. I don't know if this can be interpreted as good ore bad, because the specs are not that stunning. Nevertheless the sq says: good.
#2: The M10 contains a lithium battery for memory backup purposes, type MS614SE. When emptied one day, good luck replacing it. :-\
I was able to discover some "secrets" of M10: >:DThanks for the information.
#1: The AD/DA-converter, the headphone amp and the mic amp is all together combined in just one chip: the Cirrus Logic CS42L52. I don't know if this can be interpreted as good ore bad, because the specs are not that stunning. Nevertheless the sq says: good.
#2: The M10 contains a lithium battery for memory backup purposes, type MS614SE. When emptied one day, good luck replacing it. :-\
#3: The mic capsules have the marking H9804, diameter 10mm, thickness 4.7mm. Unfortunately I could not find out the manufacturer or any technical specification until now.
Cheers,
Martin
Question: are there any opamps in there? In the PCM-D50 there are opamps for both mic (preamp) and line level (buffer before ADC). I expect there is something, because of the analog level control, and also the very low noise on the mic inputs.
Have you managed to gain access to a service manual for this unit?
I've researched all these threads and I'm either not finding the answer to the question I have or not understanding what I'm seeing, so I'm asking it now...between the D10 and R-09HR, which performs better through the LINE input? I've seen a lot of comparisons of mic input noise (mostly Leonard's), but not line. I use a preamp so I'm not concerned with the mic input.I think there are a lot of advantages to the M10, including battery life (12hrs continuous recording, stays in "standby" mode forever) and ergonomics (leds on the top to watch in your pocket). I also think the preamp will turn out to useful. In fact, Guysonic himself suggests it can power his mics directly, without a preamp or battery box, so this setup would be ideal for you. In my opinion, the less in the input chain, the better. Also you don't have to worry about extra connections or and batteries in your preamp. I run Countryman B3 directly into the M10 and love it!
Any answers, or responses pointing me to where this was answered previously, would be most appreciated.
I've researched all these threads and I'm either not finding the answer to the question I have or not understanding what I'm seeing, so I'm asking it now...between the D10 and R-09HR, which performs better through the LINE input? I've seen a lot of comparisons of mic input noise (mostly Leonard's), but not line. I use a preamp so I'm not concerned with the mic input.I think there are a lot of advantages to the M10, including battery life (12hrs continuous recording, stays in "standby" mode forever) and ergonomics (leds on the top to watch in your pocket). I also think the preamp will turn out to useful. In fact, Guysonic himself suggests it can power his mics directly, without a preamp or battery box, so this setup would be ideal for you. In my opinion, the less in the input chain, the better. Also you don't have to worry about extra connections or and batteries in your preamp. I run Countryman B3 directly into the M10 and love it!
Any answers, or responses pointing me to where this was answered previously, would be most appreciated.
Richard
I'm just curious about line-in performance (self-noise/noise floor, frequency response/coloration) between the two as all the data I've seen focuses on mic in only.
Had a little issue today with the maiden voyage with my M10 (at least for music).
I bought a 8GB MicroSD card, and it gave me some issues when I put it in the deck. Tried to format in the deck, no go (gave me an error). Put it in my desktop and formatted without issue. Put it back in the M10 and formatted it again (worked fine). So I thought I was good to go. Nope.
I'm just curious about line-in performance (self-noise/noise floor, frequency response/coloration) between the two as all the data I've seen focuses on mic in only.
Guysonic to the rescue:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=5168d7cba3720ca7e4ba64e8cccaeae5&topic=124639.msg1722123#msg1722123
Had a little issue today with the maiden voyage with my M10 (at least for music).
I bought a 8GB MicroSD card, and it gave me some issues when I put it in the deck. Tried to format in the deck, no go (gave me an error). Put it in my desktop and formatted without issue. Put it back in the M10 and formatted it again (worked fine). So I thought I was good to go. Nope.
What brand card? I'm very firm on my choice of memory cards and have always used Sandisk for all my memory card needs as they've always been very reliable. I have a Sandisk Mobile Ultra 16GB card in mine and it hasn't skipped a beat in the 9 months I've been using it.
I was able to discover some "secrets" of M10: >:D
...
#2: The M10 contains a lithium battery for memory backup purposes, type MS614SE. When emptied one day, good luck replacing it. :-\
Maybe this is one of the M10 weaknesses: it does not remember what memory you preferred.
Now record cross memory from card into internal memory.
Stop recording into internal memory.
Erase stuff on the card.
Start recording.
Where is the M10 recording?
It's to be expected that the unit will give you two different drives in Windows because it's the equivalent of having an all-in-one memory card reader where the CF card is say drive G: (for argument's sake) and the SD card is say drive H: (also for argument's sake).
It mentions in Note 4 on page 86 that the internal memory and memory card appear as two volumes and gives you the volume names for them.
Now as for the frying pan you mention, I don't see the problem here. If the card runs out of space and crosses over to the internal memory (or vice versa), the file will simply be split across them and all you'll need to do is load both files and stitch them together, same as with the 2GB file limit.
In the end, if it's that much of a concern for you, there's always the option of buying a larger memory card. I'm running a 16GB Sandisk Mobile Ultra without issue, giving me 15 hours at 48kHz/24bit, and don't have cross memory recording enabled.
Its not small.. Its compact... Its not like you need to bring tapes or batteries... It does have room for a shitload of micro-sds It has a nice "molded" feel and would really help from a reasonable drop.
Its not small.. Its compact... Its not like you need to bring tapes or batteries... It does have room for a shitload of micro-sds It has a nice "molded" feel and would really help from a reasonable drop.
Don't get me wrong, I think it is a nice case but I was hoping it would be large enough so I'll at least be able to fit my CA-14 mics inside.
Its not small.. Its compact... Its not like you need to bring tapes or batteries... It does have room for a shitload of micro-sds It has a nice "molded" feel and would really help from a reasonable drop.
Don't get me wrong, I think it is a nice case but I was hoping it would be large enough so I'll at least be able to fit my CA-14 mics inside.
Interesting. I was actually a little bummed about it because it seems too big to me. But then I acknowledged that it was created for someone to carry the M10 around in by itself, so it's probably appropriate for that purpose. For my (and I assumed a lot of tapers') purpose, it seems a little bulky and takes up more room in my gear bag than I had hoped. Something just big enough to hold the M10 and keep it from getting scratched in the bag would be perfect.
^ You showed security your gear :oYes, that's balls!
Yes, that's balls!
Hiding stuff in plain sight.
^ Welcome and +T for spending a week reading before you post. It does my heart good to know there's another Team Old Farts candidate stretching out here. ;D
^ You showed security your gear :othat is totally the Jedi mind trick that you need to use sometimes
I use one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Lowepro-4-3-Inch-Navi-Sleeve-Black/dp/B002TLSOG0
Fits the M10 perfectly.
so I am thinking of down sizing to a M-10 and it appears that noone is worried about the A-D converter in the M-10, and that most like to use a preamp in front of it.
I am thinking LittleBox > M-10
which would still be smaller and lighter than my Fostex FR2 LE
anyone have insight on the Sony A-D converter
thanx
--Ian
anyone have insight on the Sony A-D converter
anyone have insight on the Sony A-D converter
It's said to be the CS42L52_F1.
http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS42L52_F1.pdf
so I am thinking of down sizing to a M-10 and it appears that noone is worried about the A-D converter in the M-10, and that most like to use a preamp in front of it.
I am thinking LittleBox > M-10
which would still be smaller and lighter than my Fostex FR2 LE
anyone have insight on the Sony A-D converter
thanx
--Ian
look down the forum page a few threads and you will see my thread comparing the AD to that of the 722. The AD of the 722 is very well regarded. Take a listen to the files and see how you think the M10 compares.
EDIT: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=138489.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=138489.0)
I found a case that fits the M10 like it was made for it. Lowepro Volta 20. A small pocket inside for additional cards and that's it.
crbatt: I'm going to swim against the stream here (risking a thread hijack) and say don't jump too quickly into CA mics. Other alternatives are out there short of the $500'ish range DPA 406x route.
Personally, I might look at some of the AT adapted mics available at Sound Professionals like the SP-CMC-8 (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-8) A bit more money than CA-11's perhaps but they're smaller and have switchable caps if you like to expand. SP has a taper discount too, something that the new folks who are pointing to CA don't know or have forgotten. SP has been a solid company IMO with few complaints.
As far as his mic preamps go, I think there are few better alternatives for the money and form factor for plug-in mics. The Naiant littlebox (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=128321.0) can be customized for nearly any mic you have and is maybe not too big for your consideration. I'd say the littlebox price might be in your ball park and performance has been turning a lot of heads here.
Got my case in the mail yesterday. Nice case, certainly better than nothing. I'd be pissed if I paid $30 for it though.Is there a way to get this thing outside of the USA without insane shipping charges?
so i know its been said that as low as 3 was "normal" with no gain or attenuation but i was much higher then that
...instead of a zipper with the unit sitting loosely with the zipper open as it seems to with your case, the unit sits snug in the pouch which grabs 3/4 of the unit and has a flap which folds over the top and locks down with velcro. That way, I can have the flap open to plug in the mics and not have to worry about the unit falling out of the pouch if someone were to ever bump me.
maybe i misread it too but thats good to know that guysonic and i got the same resultso i know its been said that as low as 3 was "normal" with no gain or attenuation but i was much higher then that
I might have missed it, but I never heard of anyone saying that. Guysonic did his famous tests on the M10 and said the unity gain setting was about 6 which is pretty close to the results you got.
also how long do you have to let the m10 sit before you need to reset the clock? it seems lieke everytime i turn it on the clock is not set correctly
it sets correctlyalso how long do you have to let the m10 sit before you need to reset the clock? it seems lieke everytime i turn it on the clock is not set correctly
thanks for doing the testing.
I would double check to make sure you're setting the time right. I have not had any issue with the time not setting correctly or staying set. Does it return to midnight on new recordings after you turn it back on? Earlier in the thread there was talk about the internal battery and guysonic among others said its good enough for ten years.
it sets correctlyalso how long do you have to let the m10 sit before you need to reset the clock? it seems lieke everytime i turn it on the clock is not set correctly
thanks for doing the testing.
I would double check to make sure you're setting the time right. I have not had any issue with the time not setting correctly or staying set. Does it return to midnight on new recordings after you turn it back on? Earlier in the thread there was talk about the internal battery and guysonic among others said its good enough for ten years.
then is fine for a while
then i don't turn it on for a couple of weeks and its back to midnight asking to be set as soon as i tunr it on just like it did the first time i ever turned it on
date it asks for too
so i know its been said that as low as 3 was "normal" with no gain or attenuation but i was much higher then that
I might have missed it, but I never heard of anyone saying that. Guysonic did his famous tests on the M10 and said the unity gain setting was about 6 which is pretty close to the results you got.
Did Guysonic measure the HR's unity gain?
I cannot get the m10 to recognize my brand new Sandisk 8gb micro sd. Pretty sure it's class 2 but I don't see why that would matter as it should still be plenty fast for even the highest bit rate and sampling rate.
WTF? I am a Sandisk diehard but this is just crap. What sd card will work with the m10?
i knew i read people getting different resultsso i know its been said that as low as 3 was "normal" with no gain or attenuation but i was much higher then that
I might have missed it, but I never heard of anyone saying that. Guysonic did his famous tests on the M10 and said the unity gain setting was about 6 which is pretty close to the results you got.
I compared the unity gain of the M10 to the Edirol R09HR recently. The HR set at 40 and the M10 set at 5. M10's files were about 1 db louder than R09HR. Did Guysonic measure the HR' sunity gain?
another reason it may not work is because it is in upside down, the metal prongs actually go in facing up.Yep, there's a diagram on the back cover showing exactly which way to insert the MicroSD or M2 cards.
Got my case in the mail yesterday. Nice case, certainly better than nothing. I'd be pissed if I paid $30 for it though.Is the the "freebate" case? How long ago did you send off for it? They say 8-12 weeks, I'm wondering when to "expect" mine. Thanks.
ok so i finally got around to running my own line in test on the levels...
i made a white noise file in audacity and ran it to my svu1
the svu1 was showing me -3db
i unhooked the svu1 and replaced it with the m10
in order to get the m10 to show me -3db i had to set it on 6.5
for every number i went down the db went down 2 to 3
so i know its been said that as low as 3 was "normal" with no gain or attenuation but i was much higher then that
I might have missed it, but I never heard of anyone saying that.
Just got the M10 and this is by far the most extensive discussion on the thing, so I have a couple of questions:If you add track marks they show up in some programs. I think Adobe Audition shows them. Maybe other software as well. The question of marks vs. splitting I think is a matter of preference -- some people might want marks and not splits. I agree, there should be a separate button for splits, though.
1. Why can't I browse my folders while playing back music?
2. Is there any way to set the recording folder, so I can record to "2" instead of "1", for example, or is the next one only used when the first one is full with 99 tracks?
3. regarding cross-memory recording, is there any way to show all the files (both internal and external) while browsing? When internal memory is exceeded, what happens? Is the track split? Would you still have to change the view in the menu to see the excess files?
A couple of other things I've noticed disappoint me, coming from a MZ-R50 minidisc:
1. t-mark adds an entirely useless pseudo-marker instead of actually splitting the track. A real split requires extensive and tedious menu-digging which discourages one from using the feature altogether.
2. tracks can't be renamed on the fly.
On the other hand, the battery life is monstrous, sound quality is fantastic, huge amounts of memory and being able to plug into a computer is glorious. It's quite sad that sony still hasn't managed to release a player that matches their best minidiscs (because let's face it, if anyone is going to do it it's sony).
I'm seriously considering returning it and waiting for the next generation, especially since the firmware can't be upgraded.
Anyone want to talk me out of it?
Just got the M10 and this is by far the most extensive discussion on the thing, so I have a couple of questions:
1. Why can't I browse my folders while playing back music?
2. Is there any way to set the recording folder, so I can record to "2" instead of "1", for example, or is the next one only used when the first one is full with 99 tracks?
3. regarding cross-memory recording, is there any way to show all the files (both internal and external) while browsing?
When internal memory is exceeded, what happens? Is the track split?
Would you still have to change the view in the menu to see the excess files?
A couple of other things I've noticed disappoint me, coming from a MZ-R50 minidisc:
1. t-mark adds an entirely useless pseudo-marker instead of actually splitting the track. A real split requires extensive and tedious menu-digging which discourages one from using the feature altogether.
2. tracks can't be renamed on the fly.
On the other hand, the battery life is monstrous, sound quality is fantastic, huge amounts of memory and being able to plug into a computer is glorious.
It's quite sad that sony still hasn't managed to release a player that matches their best minidiscs (because let's face it, if anyone is going to do it it's sony).
I'm seriously considering returning it and waiting for the next generation, especially since the firmware can't be upgraded.
Anyone want to talk me out of it?
I only hope that over time I can develop as strong a bond with the M10 as I had with my R50.
D-50 = dedicated split button :)
For some reason, I have both recorders!D-50 = dedicated split button :)
You're right! I just took another look at the unit having thought it was a T.Mark button but it's in fact a Divide button. Well there you go then. If you're not stealthing (which I managed to do with the PCM-D50 anyway), then the more expensive PCM-D50 is the way to go. :)
For some reason, I have both recorders!
seems like a great alternative to other types of batteries and cheap ta boot
so what's the real-world battery life of the M10 on a standard pair of 2500mAh NiMH AAs?
i'm on 8 hrs on the aa that came in the box and the meter hasn't dropped one bitso what's the real-world battery life of the M10 on a standard pair of 2500mAh NiMH AAs?
recording at 24/96 I filled a 16gb (7h 40m) card before the batteries died... but that was at home, not in the field
well My thoughts were that they start at a high voltage 1.6v rather than the 1.25v of most rechargeable's which is less than straight-up Alkaline at 1.5v _ I just figured they would have a longer run-timeseems like a great alternative to other types of batteries and cheap ta boot
What advantage do they have over the NiMH batteries that would justify experimenting with them and risking reliability? NiMH are common, cheap, have extremely long runtimes in this app, generally predictable end of life characteristics, etc.
I have read that nickel-zinc batteries are more suited to high rate of discharge applications. What we do tends to be slow discharge.
I would NOT recommend the NiZn unless you have a need for that extra voltage (flashlights, or other things that don't have voltage convertors in them might be likely candidates). Both the Edirol and Sony flash recorders seem to be able to get enough out of the NiMH batteries (by voltage step-up inside), so why risk damaging them?well My thoughts were that they start at a high voltage 1.6v rather than the 1.25v of most rechargeable's which is less than straight-up Alkaline at 1.5v _ I just figured they would have a longer run-timeseems like a great alternative to other types of batteries and cheap ta boot
What advantage do they have over the NiMH batteries that would justify experimenting with them and risking reliability? NiMH are common, cheap, have extremely long runtimes in this app, generally predictable end of life characteristics, etc.
I have read that nickel-zinc batteries are more suited to high rate of discharge applications. What we do tends to be slow discharge.
if no one is using them that's fine
If and when I get a M-10 I'll probably get some NI-Zn and see how they roll.
--Ian
^ You showed security your gear :o
thanx RichardI would NOT recommend the NiZn unless you have a need for that extra voltage (flashlights, or other things that don't have voltage convertors in them might be likely candidates). Both the Edirol and Sony flash recorders seem to be able to get enough out of the NiMH batteries (by voltage step-up inside), so why risk damaging them?well My thoughts were that they start at a high voltage 1.6v rather than the 1.25v of most rechargeable's which is less than straight-up Alkaline at 1.5v _ I just figured they would have a longer run-timeseems like a great alternative to other types of batteries and cheap ta boot
What advantage do they have over the NiMH batteries that would justify experimenting with them and risking reliability? NiMH are common, cheap, have extremely long runtimes in this app, generally predictable end of life characteristics, etc.
I have read that nickel-zinc batteries are more suited to high rate of discharge applications. What we do tends to be slow discharge.
if no one is using them that's fine
If and when I get a M-10 I'll probably get some NI-Zn and see how they roll.
--Ian
Now go ahead and buy a Sony rig and a pair of Countryman B3's. You will not be disappointed...
Richard
Forgot to mention: my biggest concern at the moment is the flimsy hold/power button. The spring that makes it bounce back after deactivating hold is very weak, so it's happened to me a couple of times that the unit has switched off when I needed to record quickly. Very annoying.
Has this happened to anyone else? Is the power/hold switch supposed to be this flimsy or have I got a lemon?
what's the group wisdom on good cards to use with this deck? I just ordered one and will need to grab a card for it. Probably just an 8GB..
thanks
jesse
what's the group wisdom on good cards to use with this deck? I just ordered one and will need to grab a card for it. Probably just an 8GB..
the 8 gb will do the trick, i say newegg.com has teh best deals
the 8 gb will do the trick, i say newegg.com has teh best deals
I've found that Amazon is often cheaper than Newegg. Newegg's search function is far superior, and I trust the reviews more. Conversely, Amazon's search function is horrible. So I always use Newegg to find the product I want, and then copy and paste the product number into Amazon and often save money that way.
the 8 gb will do the trick, i say newegg.com has teh best deals
I've found that Amazon is often cheaper than Newegg. Newegg's search function is far superior, and I trust the reviews more. Conversely, Amazon's search function is horrible. So I always use Newegg to find the product I want, and then copy and paste the product number into Amazon and often save money that way.
The only problem with that thinking about Amazon is how many products are sold on Amazon but not actually by Amazon. Lots and lots of reliable and unreliable sellers on Amazon. Two friends purchased what turned out to be counterfeit CF cards from different sellers on Amazon and both got the big 'f' you from Amazon customer support since it turned out both were from people using Amazon as a store front and the sale was not actually by Amazon.
Hot glue it in.
What I do is put a right-angle plug in the unit, then about 6" of wire to a female minijack.
I made one of these from a hardwired right angle plug (from a set of AT829 mics), just cut it and added a jack.
You could probably get Chris Church to make you a cable like this.
Oh yeah, you could glue-tape that thing to the Sony case if you like :)
Richard
1.) Running at 24/44.1 how many record hours can I expect to get?
2.) As far as setting levels, what helpful tips are there? I am used to setting DAT levels, to peak at "0". I understand you can boost levels post production, but where should I set (Pre set?) them?
3.) Any other general helpful tips for a newbee with the M-10 on a maiden voyage?
3) Switch limiters and filters off
On page 81, it says "The limiter circuit of the PCM recorder does not compensate for clipping when audio over 12 dB is input. In this case, sound may be distorted.
So we figure that we essentially get 12dB additional gain before clip when we use the limiter.
I leave the limiter on as a safety valve, but try to set levels conservatively enough so that it does not engage. Seems to be the best of both world to me.
1.) Running at 24/44.1 how many record hours can I expect to get?
2.) As far as setting levels, what helpful tips are there? I am used to setting DAT levels, to peak at "0". I understand you can boost levels post production, but where should I set (Pre set?) them?
3.) Any other general helpful tips for a newbee with the M-10 on a maiden voyage?
1) Approximately 4 hours with the internal 4GB memory. About 3 hours if you record 48kHz/24bit (my preference). Buy a 16GB micro SD like I did and you'll have plenty of recording space, even if you wanted to go nuts with the resolution! I'm actually going experimental because of this and making a live recording at the full 96kHz/24bit resolution this weekend. The results should be interesting.
2) Which is all well and good if you know your sources are running at fixed levels and will not exceed their existing peak outputs. However, in a live environment, it's best to record more conservatively. I prefer to record with levels peaking at -12dBFS. This means I have 12dB of headroom in case a loud burst should appear. That way, I can tame the loud burst as necessary and still maintain a clean signal because it wasn't recorded with any distortion. The rule is: You can always dial in more gain but you can't dial out distortion.
3) Switch limiters and filters off, record at conservative levels and leave the rest to your post-production processing. Don't forget to enjoy the show in the meantime! :)
Does anyone have experience running the M-10 with DSM's? I'm assuming LINE in and sensitivity to LOW??
I'm guessing your preference for recording hot is because you grew up with analogue equipment, but it makes absolutely no sense with digital. All you're achieving by recording too hot is a clipped signal.
^^^ Not exactly what I meant. I actually had a specific experience in mind, where I had the recorder at unity (or thereabouts) and was reducing the pre-amp gain to keep the levels on the recorder at -12 dBFS (something I had read here). The quietest parts (essentially Dave King rubbing a wood-tipped stick on a cymbal) was completely silent at points. (I think) I reduced the voltage coming out of the pre below the recorder input's minimum...
No doubt 24 bit is great, and allows more conservative levels settings, but after that experience I have been trying to peak between -6 and -3 dB rather than -12 dB...
The few times I've reduced input levels to -12dB in order to leave more headroom, the dynamics on playback were considerably lacking. At a -6dB 'average' reading the little Sony really knocks me out. Of course that is with my particular use, YMMV.
The few times I've reduced input levels to -12dB in order to leave more headroom, the dynamics on playback were considerably lacking. At a -6dB 'average' reading the little Sony really knocks me out. Of course that is with my particular use, YMMV.
This may be true if you want to be able to listen to the unedited files using the M10 as a player. It should not be the case if you edit the files and boost the levels before doing any critical listening. I certainly have no problem with the dynamics of my recordings after editing, even if I needed to boost the recordings 12 or (rarely) even 20 dB.
Posts suggesting keeping connectors clean should be followed as good advice. See my tips page for details for doing this atWhat I do is put a right-angle plug in the unit, then about 6" of wire to a female minijack.
I made one of these from a hardwired right angle plug (from a set of AT829 mics), just cut it and added a jack.
You could probably get Chris Church to make you a cable like this.
Oh yeah, you could glue-tape that thing to the Sony case if you like :)
Richard
thanx
I think I could easily make one of these but I'd then put a mini XLR on the end of the cable to ensure a locking connection. As the small 1/8 plugs twist and in my experience that is where connection issues occur.
Hot glue can be removed -but I'd hate to glue it to a brand new unit... I can easily make a custom right angle plug.
--Ian
Well, whatever works for you and makes you happy with your recordings is the way to go. Especially since you've apparently learned how to peak pretty close to 0 without distorting. I don't think I'd be able to do that, so aiming for -12 dB gives me peace of mind.
I take it you're not talking about -12dB 'peaks', but -12dB 'average' levels?
cheers
Dave
I take it you're not talking about -12dB 'peaks', but -12dB 'average' levels?
cheers
Dave
I mean I aim for the most frequent the peaks hitting around -12 dB and occasional ones maybe hitting -6 or a bit higher. I never even think if average levels (unless you consider average levels to be where the most frequent peaks are hitting).
Since I record steam trains, I have to live with 15kV/ 16 2/3 Hz catenaries only a few meters from my recording gear. You can bet that the combination of millivolt levels of audio and 15kV AC will expose any shielding problems seconds after switching on your gear!
And in such a case, replacing the existing connector on the mics with a Neutrik right angle plug (as I did after my old CSB mics developed a little break about an inch away from the old straight plug) is wiser as you are throwing less connections within the chain, less points where problems can develop and you're not paying USD$25 for it, which I consider to be an unreasonable amount for what doesn't appear to be a quality cable to me. Sorry Guy, that's just my view.
If you truly believe all of what you just said, then you need to reassess the way you handle your equipment. I see no reason why any undue stress should be placed on the connector with a connector that has a lower profile (ie. a right angled plug) unless you are pressing it up against something that would not occur naturally.
So what you're saying is that you're gripping the unit from the top with your hand over the connector? That's what I meant by reassessing the way the unit is being handled. Furthermore, the tail on that particular Neutrik connector doesn't even come close to the left or right edges of the unit and I should know since I use such plugs with my M10. I do apologise if I come across as condescending (as I gathered in hindsight) but I honestly don't agree with the strain argument that was put forward. Let's face it, nothing is impervious to stress or strain but if you're mindful of what you're doing, where you're standing or leaning against, then you will have no problem. As such, anything which does end up placing undue strain will not be because you didn't stand the right way or anything. It will be because you leaned or bumped against something which is typically out of the ordinary, perhaps even a flying roundhouse kick to the guts if you had it on your belt like I do. Heheh.
But seriously though, for 12 years with a straight plug and 2 years with a right angled plug without any issues, I must be doing something right when handling my gear and even in a slightly pushy crowd.
guysonic,Plastic molding has not been a problem in 25 years of using this type of construction with low impedance very low level microphone signals.
are you serious about your "jack extension cable"? From an EMC point of view, this is catastropic. If I can see exposed wires through the clear plastic you use, electromagnetic disturbances can see them also. Since nearly everybody now carries a cellphone, this is a real problem!
I am not kidding. I do EMC assessment and tests at work, and I have experience with recordings done in strong electromagnetic fields. Since I record steam trains, I have to live with 15kV/ 16 2/3 Hz catenaries only a few meters from my recording gear. You can bet that the combination of millivolt levels of audio and 15kV AC will expose any shielding problems seconds after switching on your gear!
The solutions I found by trial and error (I don't have a 15 kV catenary in my lab...) are those:
- avoid cheap plastic connectors and ready-made cables, especially the low-cost ones with 3.5mm connectors. The best ist just good enough. I use Neutrik: NTP3RC-B is a 90 degree, all-metal 3.5mm stereo connector with thick gold plating, a die cast housing and a strain relief that deserves this name. The price is right, I pay 3.80 Euro at www.reichelt.de . If you are short of cash, use NEUTRIK NYS231BG (Euro 1.20). Still all-metal and gold plated, but not right angle and not as solid.
The biggest problem is getting good, reliable 3.5mm jacks. Sadly, Neutrik does not make them.
- use the cable with the thickest braided shield you can get. In unbalanced connections, hum and noise enters the recorder via voltage drop along the microphone cable. See here: http://audiosystemsgroup.com/AES-RFI-SF08.pdf , especially Page 76 ff.
- When building adapter boxes, avoid plastic. Use die-cast boxes (Hammond, Eddystone, Bopla).
- check shield resistance from end to end of your cable. Strive for a resistance that is as low as possible.
- keep your connectors clean. Care for them.
This should result in good, undisturbed recordings without hum or noise.
Greetings,
Rainer
In the case of someone habitually recording around ultra high-powered electromagnetic fields... is the Sony unit itself (plastic case etc) appropriately shielded anyway? A serious setup might be inside an anti-EMF mesh enclosure, and better not rely on 1/8" consumer-grade mini/mickey mouse plugs, either.
In the case of someone habitually recording around ultra high-powered electromagnetic fields... is the Sony unit itself (plastic case etc) appropriately shielded anyway? A serious setup might be inside an anti-EMF mesh enclosure, and better not rely on 1/8" consumer-grade mini/mickey mouse plugs, either.
I had the same concerns about the case shielding. The internal shielding is often partial.
hmm... does nobody have any suggestions for me and the setup ill have?
hmm... does nobody have any suggestions for me and the setup ill have?
read all three threads on the Sony and other threads on here related to your mics
I'm not sure this is the best place to ask this question but here it goes anyway. I just ordered this recorder along with CA-CAFS and a CA-UGLY. I have a Roger Waters concert on the 8th of october. Unfortunately I won't be able to test this new equipment before the show. Can anyone recommend some settings for me to use? Ill be recording 24/48 and i assume from what i have read that ill need to use the line in input. The venue is in an arena seating approximately 18k. Thanks in advance.Mics > ugly > m10
Jim
Limiter - off
I think a fairly safe way to go about it is to set the the UGLY at 75%-90% of full gain (Chris Church says that's safe even at loud shows) and start with the M10 at around 5/10 (there is some dispute about whether unity gain is 4 or 6).
Personally, I would start somewhere in the 3.5 to 4 range. That has seemed to work well for me with a 9100 (same as an Ugly, I think?) and low-sensitivity mics for loud rock...That's with the pre ~80 or 85%..
if you are plugging a pair of Church Audio mics directly into the mic input with no battery box, would you turn plug in power on? I noticed I was getting levels without having to turn on the plug in power.
Due to the nature of the on screen VU meter, there is an unavoidable inaccuracy when setting/reproducing levels.
Due to the nature of the on screen VU meter, there is an unavoidable inaccuracy when setting/reproducing levels.
A great feature of the 7xx recorders is that the display shows how many dB you are adding. So there is no mystery. If only all recorders did that... Though many pre-amps do, like the v3.
Maybe I was not clear enough - I am not a native speaker. The inaccuracy I talked about is caused by the granularity of the display - if you increase the input voltage, the segment "x" is switched on at say 100mV, the segment "x+1" at 120mv.
Maybe I was not clear enough - I am not a native speaker. The inaccuracy I talked about is caused by the granularity of the display - if you increase the input voltage, the segment "x" is switched on at say 100mV, the segment "x+1" at 120mv.
You were quite clear.. I muddled things by responding about the amount of added gain, and not the metering.
On the subject of the metering, in some situations it would be similarly nice to have the option of numeric dBFS listed along with the meter. Ideally as avg rms, and peak, or volts. I'm not sure if any of these devices as the compute power to do that.
2. Automatic Gain - Also adjusts analog preamp so effective at maximizing SNR??
2. Automatic Gain - Also adjusts analog preamp so effective at maximizing SNR??
Never use it recording music with any recorder. It squashes the dynamic range. Everyone on this board will tell you to always use manual level.
I'm recording voices. Two people speaking. Lavaliere is on one of them. Any recording advantage to using automatic gain versus correction in post in this case given dynamic range probably not an issue and one level will definitely be higher than the other?
I wanted to check it out, but rapidshare is not working for me unless I pay to join.
It does have an alternative for free users but it didn't work for me previously.
Just tried again & it seemed to be working but firefox froze after 20% download. Now its a 10 minute wait to try again.
I'm done with rapidshare, but the little I was able to download sounded pretty good to me.
I also posted this in the team Church Audio thread a couple of days ago. I looking for an little external feedback. I have been recording for about six months now and am still trying to perfect my methods. If anyone has time to ldownload and isten to the file in the link and let me know what you think I would be appreciative. It is one track from a recording I made Friday night at a jazz performance in a small club in NYC.
http://rapidshare.com/files/421617713/MTurner2010-09-24track01.flac.html (http://rapidshare.com/files/421617713/MTurner2010-09-24track01.flac.html)
CA-14 (omnis) -> CA-9100 -> PCM-M10 (24 bit/44.1kHz)
converted to 16bit with Audacity.
Thanks.
I'm recording voices. Two people speaking. Lavaliere is on one of them. Any recording advantage to using automatic gain versus correction in post in this case given dynamic range probably not an issue and one level will definitely be higher than the other?t's probably best to sort it out afterwards.
I also posted this in the team Church Audio thread a couple of days ago. I looking for an little external feedback. I have been recording for about six months now and am still trying to perfect my methods. If anyone has time to ldownload and isten to the file in the link and let me know what you think I would be appreciative. It is one track from a recording I made Friday night at a jazz performance in a small club in NYC.
http://rapidshare.com/files/421617713/MTurner2010-09-24track01.flac.html (http://rapidshare.com/files/421617713/MTurner2010-09-24track01.flac.html)
CA-14 (omnis) -> CA-9100 -> PCM-M10 (24 bit/44.1kHz)
converted to 16bit with Audacity.
Thanks.
Sounds really good, how far were you from the stage?
I also posted this in the team Church Audio thread a couple of days ago. I looking for an little external feedback. I have been recording for about six months now and am still trying to perfect my methods. If anyone has time to ldownload and isten to the file in the link and let me know what you think I would be appreciative. It is one track from a recording I made Friday night at a jazz performance in a small club in NYC.
http://rapidshare.com/files/421617713/MTurner2010-09-24track01.flac.html (http://rapidshare.com/files/421617713/MTurner2010-09-24track01.flac.html)
CA-14 (omnis) -> CA-9100 -> PCM-M10 (24 bit/44.1kHz)
converted to 16bit with Audacity.
Thanks.
Sounds really good, how far were you from the stage?
About 10 feet
I just recorded a show with the internals a few hours ago. Didn't turn out so great, learned a few things though.
- Under manual rec, don't go under 1.4 (maybe 1.2) or so unless you want a super quiet recording. Didn't think it could handle a loud show... kinda didn't.
That of course depends on the loudness of the source, but if you have to turn the record level below 1 to keep the meters under 0 dB you are likely to get a distorted recording anyway (even when using externals).
- The M10's internals cant handle super loud bass (it will distort), turn on the LCF (may still distort) or move away from the speakers.
They will handle shows that are quite loud though. I believe 120 or maybe 125 dB.
- Adjusting the rec level will lead to some scraping sounds, don't adjust it more than you need to.
Wait for applause to change levels, if possible, so any added noise can be easily edited out. I think the scraping sound is the internal mics recording your fingers on the wheel. I don't hear it when I use externals.
- Not really good for loud rock shows, period. (Unless you find a really good spot to record from, possibly away from speakers more than a few feet)
No stock internals that I know of are. The R-09 with the Chris Church Micsketeer mod sounds great for super loud shows.
I really gotta save up for some externals :(
Look into the Church gear-best bang for the buck and sound like they cost a lot more than they do.
I hate to say it, but it sounds like the limitations of the recording were the mics. The clarity and sense of depth are great, and so is the sense of the presence of the instruments, the breath and the impact. All that's missing is bass, like the weight of the bass drum. It sounds like the mics are rolling off that bottom octave of bass, and that makes the recording sound just a little bit...stuffy-nosed. But only a little bit. And the musicianship is superb.
Looks like we've hit the end of this thread.