Topic: Wireless audio>DV cam transmitter? (was: Riding the levels while filming)

[sunjan]

Hi all,

I have a female friend who got herself a job at a local TV station.
Now, she wants to get into filming shows with her own video gear. But since she has a "journalistic" outlook, she wants to move around in front of the stage while filming, to capture different angles and make the footage more interesting.
We're talking about local pub bands, so no problems with security.

I told her that it's not advisable to move around, but she persists.

This is where it gets complicated with the sound levels. I'm not a video guy myself, but she's used to AGC on the camera to keep the levels consistent. Now she tried out a pro videocam with a Rode shotgun stereo mic that can bypass the AGC, but she's not happy that the levels jump up and down as she moves around.

From my understanding, she needs to have some kind of fixed miking, otherwise she would always have to ride the levels everytime she moves.
She could either put some mics on a stand, get the SB feed, or paste the audio from a taper in post. But she's not happy with any of these alternatives, because she's often the only taper/photographer at the gigs, and she thinks it's too much to handle dealing with a mic stand or SB feed.

Is there any way for her to get consistent levels using the camera-mounted Rode mic? Or should I just tell her to bite the bullet and stand still??!

[leehookem]

is going wireless an option?

[sunjan]

is going wireless an option?

I have no experience, but it sounds interesting.
What kind of setup would you suggest?

[stevetoney]

Why would going wireless be any less cumbersome that setting a mic up on a stand?  The bad sound of most concert video is more a function of the quality of the mics on a typical video camera than moving around...but I'd say that both can screw up the effect of the video.  I'd personally always prefer going the extra mile to mux in good audio, because there's nothing that ruins a good video qucker than bad audio...

Stated another way...a lousy video can be rescued by good audio.  A great video is quickly trashed by bad audio...that's my opinion anyway.

IMHO, the mics have gotta stay in one spot or the sound is gonna suffer.  If she wants to move the camera around, she has no choice but to move the mic off of the camera if she wants the sound not to reflect her movements.

A wireless might be a good option, but if she's gonna sink money into a remote audio system, might as well put the money into ... say a church audio mic/preamp and a recorder so she can record audio performances as well.

[sunjan]

IMHO, the mics have gotta stay in one spot or the sound is gonna suffer.  If she wants to move the camera around, she has no choice but to move the mic off of the camera if she wants the sound not to reflect her movements.

A wireless might be a good option, but if she's gonna sink money into a remote audio system, might as well put the money into ... say a church audio mic/preamp and a recorder so she can record audio performances as well.

Good point.
I guess she would consider wireless instead of a separate recorder -  less gear to babysit (and protect against wooks). She's the only taper/filmer at most gigs, so the ideal setup would be to record the audio straight to the DV tape one way or another.

Can anyone point me in the right direction to wireless sender/receiver gear? I'm totally clueless here. What to you need to transmit from a mic stand to a DV cam???

[leehookem]

I totally misunderstood what she was trying to accomplish.

[sunjan]

I'm just toying with ideas, but would it be possible to transmit the SB feed to the DV cam over wireless???

What device should she be looking for?

[jkmb]

I think she could use the Sennheiser G2 wireless system to go Soundboard > wireless tx > wireless rx > camera.  I think the one with the mic butt plug uses the mic body as an antenna, so I wouldn't go this route, but I am not sure about this.

I went with recording with a pre and an Iriver at the board via line out, and then mixing with the other mics in Vegas.   

If she wants to go wireless, she needs to be aware of how far away the transmitter can broadcast.  I would call B and H and a talk with the Pro Audio dept. if she is interested in going soundboard > wireless tx > wireless rx > camera.

[allan]

The G2 system is very good, but also a bit expensive. It should have no problem transmitting from the board to stage in a club. The only drawback other than price might be interference from other devices, in ear monitors, cell phones.

[gearscout]

Sunjan,

Audio Technica makes a mono wireless system (Pro88) that works for a rather modest $170.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68061-REG/Audio_Technica_W88_68_830_Pro_88W_Camera.html#specifications

PRO:
• Cost
• 20-100 ft. range - mileage varies
• 2 Channels of VHF/FM to try to avoid conflicts
• Light weight
• 3.5mm 1/8" mic jack/earphone and audio output to camera
• 6 hours or more on 9v batteries
• Use AGC on the camera or manually adjust audio on camera
• It is pretty well made -- battery compartment covers are weakest point
• It works surprisingly well!

CON:
• It's NOT pro gear (despite the name)
• It's plastic, not metal (despite B&H description)
• Antenna on camera receiver (it can mount in the hot shoe) is rather long...affects balance of small cameras
  but it can be mounted in other ways -- still, operator has to carry that unit WITH the camera if not ON it.
• Requires a camera with a 1/8" mic jack (or adapter cable)
• Requires an adapter cable for XLR mics to 1/8"

I've used this with lavalier mics and the Sennheiser ME66/K6 shotgun.  I can't remember how it worked with a dynamic mic like the Electrovoice 635A.

It would free her up to single mic the band and have the audio fed into her camera.  As long as she's recording, she's getting the audio from the wireless mic.  If she unplugs the mic at the camera, she's back to the built-in microphones.  It's expecting mic level into the transmitter...so if you can get that from the mix board, you're set.

She can use it for interviews and standups at the TV station if it doesn't work out for concerts.  ;-)

[sunjan]

Neat, thanks a lot for pointing me in the right direction. Found a review with detailed pics here:
http://pana3ccduser.com/article.php?filename=Review-of-the-Audio-Technica-PRO-88W-Wireless-Micr

I don't know if mono would be sufficient though, maybe there's a similar stereo version somewhere???
Or could an IEM system like Nady PEM-500 do the trick?
http://www.nady.com/pem500.html

[rastasean]

I wouldn't consider wireless at all.

I went with recording with a pre and an Iriver at the board via line out, and then mixing with the other mics in Vegas.   

Nice and easy.
Check out Groove TV on archive... groove tv

They don't do wireless and have great sound from the board and a three camera shoot.

keep it simple and cheap

That wireless system is pretty cool but there will be interference with something in the room. Most likely just lighting can cause an issue.
In fact, if I were to record someone with a lav mic, I would hook them up to my iriver and have them carry that in their pocket while I film.

for the price of the wireless system, you could possibly find another camera for a static shot.

just my [not so] humble advice.

[Cools]

Is there any way for her to get consistent levels using the camera-mounted Rode mic?

Nope. If she wants quality, she better stand still, setup a static mic or get a feed from the mixer.

I work on a festival each summer (I do management and coordinate the video production) and each year we have at least one media videographer who thinks he/she knows it all and runs around recording with some sort of camera mounted mic. It works fine for short segments (basically when he/she stands still) but beyond that it's pretty useless, especially considering I can usually provide a mixer feed. It also kind of makes the festival look bad when the results are unwatchable... But I digress...

Wireless would be the most flexible option in terms of freedom of movement: setup a static mic on a stand or try getting a feed from the mixer and transmit it to the camera. Interference can be an issue in some situations, but short distances shouldn't be a problem. Personally, I haven't had many problems at the venues I've worked at. Just make sure to do a scan to find a free channel and ask the crew for any reserved ranges.

I've had good experience with the Sennheiser G2 kits.

Or, bring a friend and have him/her tape the segment audio while she moves around and synch it up later in post. Either way, she'll have to spend money and accept that she'll have to work WITH the location rather than against it to get good results.