Topic: Tape Hiss Help?

[DMBprez]

Hi,

Tonight I ran my new mics (AT 4041's) into my UA5 and then into my new iRiver.  I have a few questions:

1) First off, my iRiver is rockboxed and the levels going into it were SUPER LOW.  I had my UA5 cranked all the way up at one point, and it was not even half way.  Any ideas behind this?

2) Because the levels were so low, I got home and the recording was SUPER quiet.  Therefore, I added like 30db of gain.  When I add the gain and listen to the recording, it sounds okay. But when I export it as a wav and open it back up, it has a terrible hissing noise.

3) Now, the UA5 I have sometimes has hissing problems if you have the levels up too high on one channel, so I don't really know if this is from adding the gain (which I believe it is, because only after I save the file do I have this problem) or because of the UA5.

Would an MP3 help you guys?  Let me know.  Any help is greatly appreciated.


Best,
Chris

[su6oxone]

Dunno about your specific situation, but SoundForge has a nice plug-in you might want to check out called Express FX Audio Restoration that worked wonders with one tape that I had that also had a lot of hiss after normalizing.

[DMBprez]

Thanks, Sub.  I will try that out.


Does anyone think that the hiss could be because of the amount of gain I added?  It was closer to 40db, the recording was almost none existent in some sports...

[su6oxone]

Does anyone think that the hiss could be because of the amount of gain I added?  It was closer to 40db, the recording was almost none existent in some sports...

Most likely the huge level raising resulted in the hiss.  The noise floor will also raise when you raise levels in post, and especially when you're recording 16-bit (iRiver).  Everyone should have a 24-bit recorder. 

[DMBprez]

I'm just trying to figure out why my levels were so low in the first place.  I ran line-in into my iRiver from my UA5, would running optical in change anything?

[Brian Skalinder]

I'm just trying to figure out why my levels were so low in the first place.  I ran line-in into my iRiver from my UA5, would running optical in change anything?

Yes:  run optical-in on the iRiver to avoid this problem in the future.

It's been a while, but if memory serves...the UA5 also has a control for manipulating the analog-output level ("Output" knob, maybe?).  So while your preamp gain might have been high, the output level was probably low, resulting in overall very low output levels.

As for hiss when you turn up the gain on the UA5...yes, a stock UA5 will exhibit noticeable hiss with very high gain.  But running optical-out on the UA5 / optical-in on the iRiver, you should only run into this challenge if recording very quiet sources.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Pretty sure the headphone volume also controls the RCA outs on the UA5.

But if you just run the optical you should be good to go.

I would set up your rig and test all of this before your next time out.

[DMBprez]

Can anyone point me in the direction of the cable I need to run from my UA5 to my iRiver?  I gave mine away thinking I no longer needed it 

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

This is what you need:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022902&p_id=1556&seq=1&format=2

Unless you want to run your JB3 50 feet from the UA5, in which case this will do  :

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022902&p_id=2835&seq=1&format=2

[runonce]

I'm just trying to figure out why my levels were so low in the first place.  I ran line-in into my iRiver from my UA5, would running optical in change anything?

Because you eliminate all the noise on the analog side of the H120.

[runonce]

Does anyone think that the hiss could be because of the amount of gain I added?  It was closer to 40db, the recording was almost none existent in some sports...

Most likely the huge level raising resulted in the hiss.  The noise floor will also raise when you raise levels in post, and especially when you're recording 16-bit (iRiver).  Everyone should have a 24-bit recorder. 

While that may be true - it doesnt really apply here - not truly a bit depth issue.

It wont matter how many bits you have if you dont have your gear set up properly.

[anonymous_user]

Dunno about your specific situation, but SoundForge has a nice plug-in you might want to check out called Express FX Audio Restoration that worked wonders with one tape that I had that also had a lot of hiss after normalizing.

I stopped using those automated de-hiss tools probably back in the 90's. They do a lot more harm than good, they create a small sort of underwater-sounding, crystal-y type audio effect. It's slight, and isn't noticable on all audio systems, but it's there. If you hear it once on a given recording or a given playback system then it's usually enough to pick it out on other recordings and other playback systems, and is probably enough to never want to do it again. I would just use slight EQ to get rid of hiss, which in my opinion works better anyway.


To the original poster, yes, posting a short wav clip of your set might help. Some users might give it a shot and post back a sample of their results, which I've seen around here from time to time. If it works out alright, they might post the specific settings they used so you can replicate it.

If you say you can actually boost the volume and not hear any hiss on playback, then 'export' to a wav file with the same volume and all of a sudden the hiss appears out of nowhere, even though the volume isn't changing from the previous playback, then yes that would be quite strange. I can't imagine that's the case, but if so, play it back when the volume is already raised and it doesn't have hiss, and try using the windows "what you hear" setting to record a clip to a seperate wav file. Then save your original one when the hiss gets added, and you'll have 2 files; compare that against the 'what you hear' wav clip which is after boosting but before exporting, and if they're really both at the same volume, one with hiss and one without, then you know there's a problem that occurs when you export to a new file. I would guess you're mistaken and the hiss gets added after any initial volume boosting, not just from simply exporting/saving, but maybe it's worth a try.

[runonce]

Try Audacitys noise reduction tool - it worked well on cassettes - just make sure to use the minimal reduction setting...

And you really need to have a section of just the hiss to make it work...(ie no music)

[runonce]

Dunno about your specific situation, but SoundForge has a nice plug-in you might want to check out called Express FX Audio Restoration that worked wonders with one tape that I had that also had a lot of hiss after normalizing.

I stopped using those automated de-hiss tools probably back in the 90's. They do a lot more harm than good, they create a small sort of underwater-sounding, crystal-y type audio effect. It's slight, and isn't noticable on all audio systems, but it's there. If you hear it once on a given recording or a given playback system then it's usually enough to pick it out on other recordings and other playback systems, and is probably enough to never want to do it again. I would just use slight EQ to get rid of hiss, which in my opinion works better anyway.


To the original poster, yes, posting a short wav clip of your set might help. Some users might give it a shot and post back a sample of their results, which I've seen around here from time to time. If it works out alright, they might post the specific settings they used so you can replicate it.

If you say you can actually boost the volume and not hear any hiss on playback, then 'export' to a wav file with the same volume and all of a sudden the hiss appears out of nowhere, even though the volume isn't changing from the previous playback, then yes that would be quite strange. I can't imagine that's the case, but if so, play it back when the volume is already raised and it doesn't have hiss, and try using the windows "what you hear" setting to record a clip to a seperate wav file. Then save your original one when the hiss gets added, and you'll have 2 files; compare that against the 'what you hear' wav clip which is after boosting but before exporting, and if they're really both at the same volume, one with hiss and one without, then you know there's a problem that occurs when you export to a new file. I would guess you're mistaken and the hiss gets added after any initial volume boosting, not just from simply exporting/saving, but maybe it's worth a try.

I think DAW software has improved -a TINY bit- since the 90s...

The hiss is mastered into the recording...not being added in post.

Pretty obvious he didnt have his rig gained out correctly - and ended up with a nice recording of the self noise from his UA5 + H120

[DMBprez]

Okay,

There is no option for me to run optical in on my iRiver... are we sure I can do this?

If I can't what else can I do about this?  My levels are entirely too low. 



I am working on a sample, if any of you would like to take a whack at it and let me know what you did, I would be forever grateful.  Both of the other tapers there last night had rig issues, so I might be the only complete tape.

Samples coming, I will post the original (no gain at all) and the one that I added gain.

Thanks so much again.