Topic: Advice on Recording Gear for a n00b

[uninvisible826]

 Hey guys, I'm totally new to recording live music. I'm starting a research project (anthropology of rock music) that requires me to make quality recordings of bands in small indoor venues, practice spaces and outdoor festivals. I'll also need to have the ability to record interviews, parties, and the like. I'm basically looking for something with versatility, but a high amount of clarity.  I'm leaning towards getting something with an internal mic (might be better for interviewing and practice sessions in smaller spaces?), but I'm open to any and all suggestions.


I already have an external microphone recommended by a friend of mine but if anyone has suggestions for other microphones I'm totally open to it.

http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com...edbattery1.htm


I'm considering one of these three recording devices from researching this stuff online.  I'm open to whatever though.  This is the best several intense sessions of googling could offer:

Edirol R-09

Zoom H2

M-Audio Multitrack 2

I'm leaning towards the Zoom H2 or the Edirol R-09 because they have built in microphones (could be better for ease of interviews), but I've had good luck with M-Audio products in the past, so I'm pretty much stuck here and don't know what's good or what to really look for.  Can anyone steer me in the right direction?

[dennisrtyler]

take a look at the newer sony m10. lotta folks selling their r09s for m10s. throw in some Church Audio(search here) CA-14 cards and a CA-9100 pre-amp and you are set. good luck and the search engine here is great.

[adrianf74]

What he said ^^^.

I've used GSAL mics before and pulled some great recordings, however, the product is "frowned upon" by many people in these seas. 

If you can pick up a R09 or R09HR -cheap- then it might be worth it.  However, B&H has (had?) the Sony PCM-M10 for $200 including shipping.  That's the recorder of choice right now because it has 4GB internal and with an added 16GB microSD card, you'll have about 20 hours of recording space at 48/24 and be able to record for that long on one single charge.

Mic wise, you could get a battery box and some Church Audio mics.  The CA-14 cards are a good bet for live audience recording.  Depending on how loud your shows are, you might be able to just run a battery box with mics.  The CA-9100 pre-amp will give you better results since you can improve the gain on the mics rather than boosting the gain on the deck.

Any other questions... feel free to ask... everybody here is pretty friendly.

[fmaderjr]

What he said ^^^.

I've used GSAL mics before and pulled some great recordings, however, the product is "frowned upon" by many people in these seas. 

If you can pick up a R09 or R09HR -cheap- then it might be worth it.  However, B&H has (had?) the Sony PCM-M10 for $200 including shipping.  That's the recorder of choice right now because it has 4GB internal and with an added 16GB microSD card, you'll have about 20 hours of recording space at 48/24 and be able to record for that long on one single charge.

Mic wise, you could get a battery box and some Church Audio mics.  The CA-14 cards are a good bet for live audience recording.  Depending on how loud your shows are, you might be able to just run a battery box with mics.  The CA-9100 pre-amp will give you better results since you can improve the gain on the mics rather than boosting the gain on the deck.

Any other questions... feel free to ask... everybody here is pretty friendly.

What he said. If you get the M-10 you could use the internals for interviews, if you like, and the CA-14's & battery box or ST-9100 for live music.

Don't get the ZOOM or Microtrack II-they are nowhere near as good as the M10 (unless you need the MTII's digital input, which you don't) and isn't much cheaper. The R-09HR is also good, but doesn't have as good battery life, and won't be cheaper as long as you can get an M10 for $200.

Most everyone here hates the Giant Squids. Maybe adrian had the omnis, which may be a bit better than the cards but still couldn't be a match for the CA gear.

[adrianf74]

Don't get the ZOOM or Microtrack II-they are nowhere near as good as the M10 (unless you need the MTII's digital input, which you don't) and isn't much cheaper. The R-09HR is also good, but doesn't have as good battery life, and won't be cheaper as long as you can get an M10 for $200.

Most everyone here hates the Giant Squids. Maybe adrian had the omnis, which may be a bit better than the cards but still couldn't be a match for the CA gear.

As far as recorders go... you can get R09/R09HR's used for around the cost of the PCM-M10 *NEW* so it seems pointless to me.

And as far as the GSAL mics go, I *did* have the Omnis.  I used them with a Sharp MT-877 from January 2002 through November 2002 when I upgraded to Sound Professionals CMC-8 (then AT-933) cards.  The Squids did some excellent pulls for me that year - some of my better recordings (although it depends on how well-behaved the crowd is/was).  The GSAL Cards are crap... much like CoreSounds cards (sorry Len if you're reading this).  The Church Gear would be the way to go.  Even though you have to wait some time for Chris' stuff to be made (he builds it himself), the gear is worth it.  I had mixed thoughts on the CAFS omni mics (which I'd bought for 007 purposes) and after recording three shows last week, I'm very pleased with what they can do for their size. 

Since you'll have "clearance" to record live samples for your project, I'd go with the CA-14 cards (even though they're a little more). You don't need something small so why not get the best that Chris offers (which are still quite cheap comparatively)?  To give you an idea, I just recently sold my Sound Professionals CMC-8's and bought CA-14 omnis and cards with a pre-amp.  The pre-amp, like I mentioned, may not be required if you're recording "rock" or louder bands/artists.  If you're recording quieter/acoustic/etc., then you'll want the pre- for better results.

[bdasilva]

Giant Squid are Gateway mics.... The marijuana of live recording.

[uninvisible826]

I appreciate all the help and advice guys.  I'm happy to put down some money to get equipment that has some longevity.  I'll probably go after that M-10 after hearing your opinions and doing some research on it myself.  I'm looking into the church audio stuff as well.

I'm in Chicago and Lollapalooza is coming up in a month.  I know they allow 'non-professional' recording equipment like flip cameras, so I was thinking about bringing a Kodak Zi8 and using an external mic with it to practice recording.  Anyone have any experience using those to record audio?

[sunjan]

I know they allow 'non-professional' recording equipment like flip cameras, so I was thinking about bringing a Kodak Zi8 and using an external mic with it to practice recording.  Anyone have any experience using those to record audio?

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=137030.0

[Belexes]

Giant Squid are Gateway mics.... The marijuana of live recording.

Mine were CSB's. Took a while for me to get to the "harder" mics.

[adrianf74]

Giant Squid are Gateway mics.... The marijuana of live recording.

Mine were CSB's. Took a while for me to get to the "harder" mics.

Let's see... Sony Clip-On Lav Mic > Sony ECM907 > CSB/Battery Box > Sony Clip-On Mic ... 4 year break ... GSAL > Sound Pros CMC-8 (AT-933/c) + SP-SB-3 ... 4 year break ... Sound Pros CMC-8 (AT-933/c) + SP-SB-3 ... added a CAFS-OMNI ... sold the CMC-8/SB-3 ... added CA-Ugly Battery Box plus CA-14/o, CA-14/c, ST-9100 Pre-amp, and some dead rats.

It's been a bit of a ride over the last 18 years for me.   I think I'm sticking with the current gear... for now.

[acidjack]

Sort of should be a separate topic, but whatever....

Mine was:

CSB (no battbox)>CSB (w/ battbox)>CSC>Nak300>sold Naks and CSCs>quit taping for 9 years>CSB>SP-CMC-8 (including both AT943 and ATU853 caps)>DPA 4061>AKG ck91+ck93 actives>Audix 1280c w/ Church Actives>DPA 4021>sold AKGs and SP-CMC-8s>beyerdynamic MC950>Schoeps CMC641>sold beyers...

Wow... I have been through a lot of rigs in the past 2 yrs!!!

[adrianf74]

Sort of should be a separate topic, but whatever....

Mine was:

CSB (no battbox)>CSB (w/ battbox)>CSC>Nak300>sold Naks and CSCs>quit taping for 9 years>CSB>SP-CMC-8 (including both AT943 and ATU853 caps)>DPA 4061>AKG ck91+ck93 actives>Audix 1280c w/ Church Actives>DPA 4021>sold AKGs and SP-CMC-8s>beyerdynamic MC950>Schoeps CMC641>sold beyers...

Wow... I have been through a lot of rigs in the past 2 yrs!!!

Holy Crap!  That's a bit of gear in the last bit.  I'm kinda glad I kept my CMC-8's because I was able to dust them off a couple of years back when The Cure were in town.  As we'd discussed, I needed to find something else/better and the CA-14's seem to be doing that for me - for now.