Topic: Please Help Me Build a Semi-Stealth Rig

[glennjr]

BTW, everyone has been really helpful and non-condescending in this forum, which I find some other forums have in abundance (the condescending part; especially towards newbies asking the same questions over and over again)  I have no way with my limited knowledge to repay the kindness and advice other than to say thanks. Although I suppose a site supporter would be a start?

Thanks

[acidjack]

At my budget I'm certainly not about to ask for Shoeps or DPA quality, but I'm curious how Church Audio and Naiant mics compare? (not based on overall value: cost vs quality, but based solely on quality) If properly placed, will they hold up to a professional's expectations, say a post production engineer looking for ambience for a movie? It's not something 10 years later I would listen back to and say, damn I need to go back and re-record that park with my Shoeps, is it?

There seems to be a good amount of love for these two mic companies here--which does say a lot about their quality--so I hope I didn't offend by asking. I just wouldn't feel right if I didn't follow due diligence. Hence, gotta ask.

From what I'm reading here I think I know the answer. But if need be, I could always save up the extra if it's worth it. (Sure wish I would have done that with my turntable purchases back in my DJ days. Wasted too much money on inferior turntables when I should have just bought the industry standard right off the bat)

Thanks!

I mean, it's a question only you can answer.  I would be that for some professional purposes, Church or Naiant mics (I own some models of both) would be fine.  I don't think I'll offend Jon or Chris by stating the obvious, that they are inferior to the Schoeps and DPAs that cost 10-30x as much money  

My opinion - from having made a lot of recordings, but not from being a professional - is that an inexpensive omni mic is more competitive with a higher-end omni mic than an inexpensive cardiod mic.  One of the best recordings I made last year was made with a $100 pair of Naiant omnis (plus a board feed, but the recording is mostly Naiant omnis): http://www.nyctaper.com/2012/11/the-loom-september-4-2012-glasslands-flacmp3streaming/  Same show, diff band: http://www.nyctaper.com/2012/09/death-blues-september-4-2012-glasslands-flacmp3streaming/

The other consideration is whether you end up with a deck that supplies 48V phantom power or not. If you do, the Naiants might be better since you can connect them straight to the deck and power them that way.  If you don't, and go with something like the M10, then the Church mics and battery box will be the simplest and most inexpensive. 

If you are already thinking about future upgrades, I would probably suggest a multi-channel deck that supplies phantom power, for which the Roland R-26 fits the bill.  The price is IMHO a bit high, but it is compact and has long battery life. The Tascam DR-680 is only slight more expensive and has more channels, but is less compact and harder to power.

[Gutbucket]

Youre a beginner, stick with the 2 channel stuff for now. Surround is very difficult and could turn you off of taping real quick.........

Start with 2 channel? YES.
Surround very difficult? NO.

What I'm describing is simply two identical 2 channel rigs.  Since they are identical in everyway except the direction the mics face, surround recording is arguably easier to run and record than most four-mic rigs around here used for non-surround.  And remember, the OP owns a DR-680.

It is distributing surround recordings to others that is cumbersome and difficult, and to a lesser extent playing them back in full surround mode, neither of which is a primary issue in this case.

[Gutbucket]

Recording surround DOES appear difficult for this guy! but he has a few more than 4 channels (and whole lot of Shoepses )-

[Ultfris101]

BTW, everyone has been really helpful and non-condescending in this forum, which I find some other forums have in abundance (the condescending part; especially towards newbies asking the same questions over and over again)  I have no way with my limited knowledge to repay the kindness and advice other than to say thanks. Although I suppose a site supporter would be a start?

Thanks

Ditto. I'm relatively new myself and have had the same experience. This is a great forum, incredibly helpful and friendly people, amazing resource. Thank you, all! Becoming a site supporter is a great start and considering the education you receive and the money you save (well, potentially unless you start spending TOO much time in the YS) by making informed purchases is well worth the modest contribution in my opinion.

[F.O.Bean]

Youre a beginner, stick with the 2 channel stuff for now. Surround is very difficult and could turn you off of taping real quick.........Invest in Church Audio CA14 mics and either a Church Audio Battery Box or CA Preamp And get a Sony M10, and you will thank us later

Thanks for the suggestion. I do like to get in over my head with things; then wonder why my life is so difficult!

At my budget I'm certainly not about to ask for Shoeps or DPA quality, but I'm curious how Church Audio and Naiant mics compare? (not based on overall value: cost vs quality, but based solely on quality) If properly placed, will they hold up to a professional's expectations, say a post production engineer looking for ambience for a movie? It's not something 10 years later I would listen back to and say, damn I need to go back and re-record that park with my Shoeps, is it?

There seems to be a good amount of love for these two mic companies here--which does say a lot about their quality--so I hope I didn't offend by asking. I just wouldn't feel right if I didn't follow due diligence. Hence, gotta ask.

From what I'm reading here I think I know the answer. But if need be, I could always save up the extra if it's worth it. (Sure wish I would have done that with my turntable purchases back in my DJ days. Wasted too much money on inferior turntables when I should have just bought the industry standard right off the bat)

Thanks!

Search archive.org for ca14 sources. For 12/29,30,31/2012 I ran schoeps mk41>littleBox>m10 and ca14c>9100>m10. The ca14s SMOKE

[glennjr]

Search archive.org for ca14 sources. For 12/29,30,31/2012 I ran schoeps mk41>littleBox>m10 and ca14c>9100>m10. The ca14s SMOKE

Thanks, will do!

[Church-Audio]

Search archive.org for ca14 sources. For 12/29,30,31/2012 I ran schoeps mk41>littleBox>m10 and ca14c>9100>m10. The ca14s SMOKE

Thanks, will do!

Any mic no matter how good or bad can sound great if placed properly. Its just the degrees of goodness is where things get confusing. Sound is subjective. My mics are not built on specs but how they actually sound in the enlivenment they will be used in. My new omni ca-11 blows away anything I have heard for under $400. I am going to be sending out a pair for the loner section on this board if you want to try them. Google is your friend there are 100's of samples of mics on the net used for living recording. Its a daunting task to listen to all of them. In the end its your ears that will be the final judge.

Chris

[LikeASong]

My new omni ca-11 blows away anything I have heard for under $400.

Now THAT is some teasing!!!!!!!!!!!

[Church-Audio]

My new omni ca-11 blows away anything I have heard for under $400.

Now THAT is some teasing!!!!!!!!!!!

and that's why I am willing to loan one out for a trial. because talk is cheap. hearing it once is all anyone is going to need to do.

[bombdiggity]

For flexibility get a tinybox (I did this recently and have been extremely happy).  You can have it set up to provide plug-in power and phantom (cable selected) and even pass through a battery powered mic's signal and can then run any mic termination and type through it to any inexpensive recorder with a decent (or better) line-in section.  Battery life (even powering phantom) is very good.  I can run any mic into my R-05 and can decide on the fly what to use from among what I choose to bring.  The preamp is far better than a battery box or any of the built in pre's (much lower noise floor).  Tiny, convenient and totally flexible. 

Mic selection is perhaps beyond this thread and covered ad nauseum elsewhere but for that convenience factor a set of clip on (or else binaural) mics may be the way to go for this sort of intended use.  Stands and complicated mounts are not unobtrusive and (if you're going for environmental) also a pain to lug around, set up, break down, repeat...   I use a camera tripod now that folds down to something very tiny but gives a really nice stable platform that also provides a more clearly defined visual boundary to passersby in more crowded spaces (use a thread adapter on the mounting plate to attach the mic mount).  That way every bit of recording gear I'd ever need easily fits in a small backpack with room to spare.  I'd even have room for two of those tripods for multiple mic mounts.