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Author Topic: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page  (Read 12495 times)

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Offline Nick's Picks

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CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« on: October 10, 2004, 06:54:54 PM »
not sure if this page has been posted before, but its worth the read.
http://www.venhaus1.com/diycatfivecables.html

Offline Nick Culbreth

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2004, 07:22:35 PM »
great cables, i highly recommend them.


edited for spelling.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2004, 08:50:00 PM by nmculbreth »

jpschust

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2004, 07:28:22 PM »
it's certainly the way to go for a audiophile on a tight budget. 

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2004, 07:33:26 AM »
so then you guys have made them ?

jpschust

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2004, 07:39:46 AM »
i have not made my own set, but i have listened to 2 different pairs of them and they are decent cables for being on a budget

Offline Daryan

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2004, 09:04:58 AM »
I have been in the process of making mine for about three weeks off and on.  I really hope they sound great, as I have about 20 hours in them to date!

Daryan
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

jpschust

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2004, 09:44:43 AM »
how has it taken you 20 hrs to make these?  i watched a friend make one speaker's worth in about an hour or so.  the braiding takes the longest time out of all of it...

Offline Nick Culbreth

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2004, 11:21:53 AM »
how has it taken you 20 hrs to make these?  i watched a friend make one speaker's worth in about an hour or so.  the braiding takes the longest time out of all of it...

i think you may be thinking about another type of cat-5 cable because the ven haus recipe calls for 13 braids per cable and takes forever to make.  i spent around 30 hours on my 8 ft. pair of cables and i just don't think it's possible that your friend could make one cable in an hour.

I have been in the process of making mine for about three weeks off and on.  I really hope they sound great, as I have about 20 hours in them to date!

Daryan

i'm really happy with mine, i think they sound great.  i've had a chance to compare them with a pair of mit terminators (thanks trey) and they were significantly better in every respect, the bass was extended a bit and more refined, the midrange was a bit clearer and the highs seemed less bright and more natural.  they were definately worth all the time i put into making them.

jpschust

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2004, 11:29:33 AM »
he just flew through making it, sounded good too.  it may not have been the ven haus specific style, but it was certainly a braided cat 5 speaker cable

Offline Daryan

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2004, 12:54:01 PM »
The one I am in the process of making, I bought about 150 feet, though I haven't used it all, and had to strip the blue plastic stuff off of the outside which revealed 4 twisted pairs of wires.  I then have to untwist those, and braid them into strands of three.  Once I have about umm, it feels like fourty but I am in Maryland at the moment and can't say exactly, I further braid three already braided units together.  Once that is done, I braid three of those and finally I think I get to terminate, cut them down, and see what they sound like.  I am completed stage one, the three strand braids and hope to be finished with stage two tomorrow evening after work.  Mine are about 10 feet fwiw, though I would like to get a 15 feet pair for the surrounds done at some point as well.

Daryan
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2004, 03:51:38 PM »
he just flew through making it, sounded good too.  it may not have been the ven haus specific style, but it was certainly a braided cat 5 speaker cable

look at the picture at the link I posted.
no way is anyone making that in an hour.  must be making something else ???? a different design i'd bet.

Offline Daryan

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2004, 08:42:05 PM »
Nick, there is another design I have seen somewhere where you just braid three cat 5 cables, unaltered, strip them and twist.  This must be the aforementioned variety!

Daryan
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline Nick Culbreth

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2004, 09:02:17 PM »
here is another recipe, i've tried this one as well and they don't sound quite as nice but they're not nearly as labor intensive.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html

jpschust

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2004, 09:52:04 PM »
thats the version i was thinking of.

Offline macdaddy

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2004, 08:32:08 PM »
here is another recipe, i've tried this one as well and they don't sound quite as nice but they're not nearly as labor intensive.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html

+t

beat me to it...

i dig that tnt site...

-macdaddy ++

akg c422 > s42 > lunatec v2 > ad2k+ > roland r-44

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2004, 07:14:03 AM »
interesting design.
A LOT less work than the link I posted.

i'm scrapping the project as my cable designer is making me some new ones.
Which will free up an 8' pair of single ended cables.  ( I need a 10' pair)

My guy is named Gregg Stralley.
The cable is custom made, and looks like red licorice.  The sound is VERY high end.  Now, i've never heard $1500 speaker cables, but he has...and he and his Chicago audiophile group (they get together and listen to each others systems) all agree that the licorice sounds every bit as good as any cable up to that price point, and then you have to start picking hairs to find a better one.
His designs were mapleshade influenced...but best those cables too.  I tell you what, (hank hill), I fully believe him w/o doubt.
Realisticly, alll I know for sure is that there was no comparring them against the MIT term 2s 3s and 4s that i've had.  It was like cleaning my ears when I introduced them into my system.

I'm fluffing a bit here so that someone can go to him for some cables.  Not sure what he charges...and maybe i'll get a chance to loan out my extras before he takes them back.  He is cheap, considering.  I think maybe under two hundred.

I've got a pair of ICs if anyone wants to try them.  I"ve put them up against a bunch of cables and they smoke. 
All of his stuff is cryo'd.  They bested my favorite IC, which was the Boulder Cable M-80 w/custom bullet ends and also cryo'd.

Offline spott

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2004, 08:37:05 AM »
I made these in 98 "sans" bannana clips at the end on some B&W 600 series speakers and people told me I was crazy, but they sounded damn good.  Alas considering the price for a box of cat5, you could get some Audio Magic type 4 non-terminated that should produce the same / similar results.


jpschust

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2004, 10:33:45 AM »
cat 5 is so cheap right now since everyone is moving to wireless.  compgeeks had a great deal on it a while ago- like 50 bucks for a box and crimper.

Offline Daryan

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2004, 07:29:48 AM »

<<
i'm really happy with mine, i think they sound great.  i've had a chance to compare them with a pair of mit terminators (thanks trey) and they were significantly better in every respect, the bass was extended a bit and more refined, the midrange was a bit clearer and the highs seemed less bright and more natural.  they were definately worth all the time i put into making them.>>

I just plugged these in as I finished them late last night, and I completely agree with this right out of the box.  The brittle harshness I had gotten used to in the high end is history...and they are silky smooth!  I am using a modified panasonic xr-45 (really modified!), and a pair of jonny's old swan diva 4.1's fwiw!

Highly reccomended, but they took forever!

Daryan
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

jpschust

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2004, 11:55:40 AM »
biamping those divas sounds unreal.  even just biwiring.

Offline Daryan

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2004, 12:51:45 PM »
I think I am going to order some more cat 5 and make some a bi wire pair...or else just take the banana's off and redo the ends for bi wire...I haven't decided yet.  I will probably just make some new ones.  Living in a state all alone sucks but this gives me something to stay occupied at least. 
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

jpschust

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2004, 01:00:40 PM »
i thought you and justine lived together?

Offline Daryan

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2004, 02:03:37 PM »
Long story short...she found a great opportunity for a job in Colorado, and I was NOT leaving the situation I am in prefessionally at the moment.  If I play my cards right, and that meaned staying here unfortunately, I will be at a 6 figure income within 3 years.  I am currently an associate agent for State Farm, and should be an Agency intern within 365 days.  I was just named top producing associate in the heartland zone, which is a huge deal to say the least.  However, Justine was not happy in her job here, and I actually encouraged her to go as it was the right thing to do, whatever makes her happy.  Thus, our relationship is on a huge hold, as I have tried the ld thing and it doesn't work at all...meaning I am living alone, 600 miles from her, and 1000 miles from home, and I don't really know anyone here.  Dammit! :-[
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline Daryan

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2004, 07:25:17 AM »
Jonny,

Whe you say bi-amping, can you explain further.  I am assuming this means two seperate amps, and with the price of the digital amps these days, I can see this as a real possibility.  If I were to boa-mp using two seperate amps, how would this be set-up?    How would I feed the same digital signal to both amps at the same time...splitter?

Jonny, thanks for all of the help!

Daryan
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

jpschust

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2004, 08:34:55 AM »
well there is bi amping and bi wiring.

bi amping means 2 amps.  if you are using one of the sony didi amps this is going to be difficult because you would have to send a digi signal to one sony amp and an anakog signal to the other amp (i presume you dont want to use two digi amps).  Bi wiring means that you aare running from one set of speaker outs into both ins on the speaker- 2 plugs on one end, 4 on the other

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2004, 10:20:12 AM »
More than you ever wanted to know about bi-amping:

http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm
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Offline Daryan

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2004, 09:35:00 AM »
This may be a dumb question, but how does one physically do this crossover thing they speak of for bi-amping?  Second question, then it's time to do some work...would it be possible to run digitally into both units using a splitter and still bi-amp?

Daryan
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2004, 11:19:58 AM »
You use an analog crossover between the preamp and amps.  It's a device designed to pass/block frequencies.   Your speakers have a passive crossover inside to send highs, mids, and lows to their respective drivers. To do a bi-amp setup you need bi-wireable speakers that allow you to bypass the cross over on the lower range and send low frequency power to the woofers directly.   Many highend biamping systems use an active crossover.

You can split the coax signal into two digital amps, but I'm not sure that you will get a benefit.  The benefit of the bi amp setup is achieved by segregating the upper and lower frquencies before the amplifiers.  I think that site I referenced touches on this aspect and why it is desirable.  If you split the digital signal and send it to two digital amps, each amp is still producing power output for the entire spectrum, so the benefit of the above is not there.  If you were to do this, you would have to perform signal processing on the digital signal to split the frequency bands.  That is not trivial and I'm not sure that digital amps would benefit in the same way as an analog amp. 


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Offline scervin

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2004, 11:48:32 AM »
Long story short...she found a great opportunity for a job in Colorado, and I was NOT leaving the situation I am in prefessionally at the moment.  If I play my cards right, and that meaned staying here unfortunately, I will be at a 6 figure income within 3 years.  I am currently an associate agent for State Farm, and should be an Agency intern within 365 days.  I was just named top producing associate in the heartland zone, which is a huge deal to say the least.  However, Justine was not happy in her job here, and I actually encouraged her to go as it was the right thing to do, whatever makes her happy.  Thus, our relationship is on a huge hold, as I have tried the ld thing and it doesn't work at all...meaning I am living alone, 600 miles from her, and 1000 miles from home, and I don't really know anyone here.  Dammit! :-[

Looks like I'm gonna quit my engr job at GM and go sell insurance!!!

jpschust

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2004, 11:58:00 AM »
slingin insurance, esp whole life insurance ain't all it's cracked up to be.

whole life insurance= quite often the biggest rip off ever.

Offline scervin

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2004, 12:36:04 PM »
My buddy does the financial planner, insurance, creepy salesman thing.  With as many tests and classes and studying he has done I'd have thought he would be a doctor by now, but he's not.  I'll have taken half the tests and classes and at least come out with a MSE from a highly rated engr college.

How long you guys taking to make these cables??  I need a 25' run

SC

Offline Nick Culbreth

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2004, 12:53:18 PM »
My buddy does the financial planner, insurance, creepy salesman thing.  With as many tests and classes and studying he has done I'd have thought he would be a doctor by now, but he's not.  I'll have taken half the tests and classes and at least come out with a MSE from a highly rated engr college.

How long you guys taking to make these cables??  I need a 25' run

SC

it took me about thirty hours to make an 8 ft. pair, i can't even imagine how long it would take to make a pair of 25 footers.

Offline Daryan

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2004, 01:34:42 PM »
I am gonna respond to this later ;)
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline Daryan

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2004, 01:38:45 PM »
25 feet, well 30 hours for 8 feet and that was with Matt helping, so multiply that by three, 90 hours or so!  The biggest problem I had was the amount of blisters on my hands that are just now disappearing.  That combined with my inability to wear gloves at the gym and well, you know!

Daryan
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline scervin

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2004, 01:47:24 PM »
ok skip that idea!  My wire world cables will have to do.

SC

Offline Nick Culbreth

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2004, 02:34:48 PM »
25 feet, well 30 hours for 8 feet and that was with Matt helping, so multiply that by three, 90 hours or so!  The biggest problem I had was the amount of blisters on my hands that are just now disappearing.  That combined with my inability to wear gloves at the gym and well, you know!

Daryan

it would take way longer than 90 hours, i can't even imagine how much of a pain it would be to try to untangle 30 feet of cable.

Offline Daryan

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2004, 02:48:36 PM »
I forgot about the untangling.  If my estimates are correct, venhaus reccomends purchasing 50 percent more cable than you need, I would reccomend 100 percent as it if you want 25 feet, you would need to start with lengths of 50 feet.  So, maybe 200 hours of solid braiding.  Not worth it.  You figure even at minimum wage, 200 x 5 bucks is 1000 dollars!  You can get killer cables for 1000 bucks, but then again you couldn't say I made these!  The easier route scott would be to make the triple t cable's, you could pull those off in that length in a couple hours, and they would sound decent to boot!

daryan
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

jpschust

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2004, 02:51:33 PM »
c'mon daryan- when's my smackdown on whole life insurance coming :D

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2004, 02:58:57 PM »
Something to consider with the cat5 cables of 25ft length: some recipes are reported to have high capacitance and the amount increases with length of the finished cable.  Some power amps are not stable with high capacitance loads.  You might want to search audioasylum for some discussion.  I ran across alot of information there when I considered making these.  (Ultimately I just bought used cables off agon, I can't afford to work for $5 an hour)  

If you want to do this to say you made something your self, you might consider the John Risch recipe speaker cables made using paired coax cable.  You have to get the correct coax cables, but they get decent reviews and they don't take hundreds of hours to construct.

There are a ton of DIY recipes and many highend cable companies sell bulk cable directly or through dealers.

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Offline Daryan

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2004, 03:55:42 PM »
c'mon daryan- when's my smackdown on whole life insurance coming :D

It's coming my friend, I just don't have time just yet to go into a diatribe about it.  Gimme a couple hours my friend...although I think you may be surprised at my answer!

Daryan 8)
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

jpschust

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2004, 04:17:31 PM »
c'mon daryan- when's my smackdown on whole life insurance coming :D

It's coming my friend, I just don't have time just yet to go into a diatribe about it.  Gimme a couple hours my friend...although I think you may be surprised at my answer!

Daryan 8)

just an fyi, i dont think its bad in all situations, but many of the situations in which it is sold are rediculous

Offline Daryan

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2004, 07:11:10 PM »
OK, here goes.  I completely disagree with the notion that some form of permanent life insurance is not necessary.  In order to re4ally gurantee your financial future, regardless of where you have your money allocated, it is absolutely necessary to have some form of a emergency exspense account to pull money from in the even that you need it.  The reason you are buying permanent life insurance is several fold.  First, as mentioned, you have got to have a pool of money to pull from.  What happens if you get really sick and can't work.  Your disability at work covers you for three years.  Add the sum of lost wages, coinsurance bills, deductibles, etc, where does this money come.  You have two options as I see it.  Well, maybe three.  You can liquidate your savings account until it's balance reaches zero.  You can cash out the 401k or tax-qualified retirement account, take a ton of penalties, pay taxes on the interest, and have absolutely nothing to retire with, or you cann simply allocate a pot of money towards not only a death benefit, but also a cash account which is going to grow at a sdpecific interest rate each and every year.  I have heard the addage over and over again, "I have always heard buy term and invest the rest."  Well folks, the reality is 90 percent of the population simply doesn't do it.  They would rather spend a butt load of money, paying interest, on boats, trailers, rv's, snowmobile's, fucking McDonlads even.  Then when it comes time to really needing a pot of money in a specific situation, retirement, illness, etc, they simply don't have it.  Let me give you an example.  You have been investing 10 percent into a 401k account since you started working.  The average american will retire with roughly 200,000 dollars in this account and rely on socialsecuirty for the rest.  Let's say you have married couple.  So we have 400ik dollars to allocate towards retirement.  Let's assume they have been forthright enough to have at least established something, preferrably a roth ira if they are within the income level.  90 percent of retirees have no owned retirement account nationally speaking.  That gives us 500k plus social security from which to withdraw money.  Now the first thing we have to realize is that that 400k from the 401k is essentially 300k assuming a tax rate of 25 percent on the groth.  So 300 plus 100 gives us 400k.  Let's say as a married couple you need 50,000 dollars per year to enjoy retirement, and in my opinion this is very very low.  well, 24000 comes from uncle sam, as the average retiree male recieves 1200, the average female 800 per month.  24,ooo.  where does the extra 26000 come from your 401k of course.  so, we divide 300k by 26,000 and we get roughly 11 years of income.  We are now a married couple at age 76 and we are now living on just social secuirty.  24 whopping thousand dollars a month assuming everythng I have said is true, which we are assuming it is for this example.  Now, we couple have possibly offset the taxation of our retirement accounts and had our full 400k, which would have helped siginifigantly, by uttilizing our whole or universal life insurance account value.

I explain life insurance like this...


From the age of 25 or so on, you are going to have the same variables which need to be protected.  You will have medical, funeral, and some sort of income you want to leave to someone, whether it be a loved one, a friend, whomever, in order to ensure they are able to bear the financial burden of your loss.  Average fun. exspenses are about 12 grand right now, medical we need to allocate a minimum of a year's salary, and income we would decide after talking with each other and performing a life need's analysis.  These exspenses are permanent, whether you are 45 when you die, or 100.  YOu are also gioing to have temporary need because of marriage while younger, kids, education costs, mortgages, loans etc.  The acronym life will help you calculate the number.  L is for loans, total the total amount of all outstanding loans together.  I, is for income replacement.  In the event that you die tomorrow, how much will your spose/children, etc need to continue living the same type of lifestyle they would have led assuming you were here.  For most married americans the answer is 12x salary, and for american's with children 20x salary.  F is for final exspenses, roughly 12ki.  E is for education.  Is it important to you to leave something in the evcent of a tradgedy to allocate funds towards the education of your children, spouse etc.  This could be college, technical/trade school etc. 

Your need for some of this is permanent.  Let's assume for easiness sake, your permanent need is 100,000.  In today's dollars let's say we allocate 12k for burial, 70k for income, and the remainder for education.  Now, this is fine and dandy.  The majority of advisors will pull out a quote for a Universal life policy and tell you this is perfect, we take care of the need for cash value as well as the aforementioned variables.  Universal life is not guranteed and fluctuates with the interst rate FYI.  The problem with this product is the fact that with option 1, the death benefit is going to stay the same.  Now, can you honestly look me in the eye and tell me that 100k today is going to be enough in 40 years for instance.  NO, no way!  Thus, whole life and universal life option 2, death benefit increasing are more appropraite.  The reason UL's are popular is that they are cheaper, plain and simple.  However, we are assuming and not thinking that 10k is going to be enough in the future.  "Well, I could just buy more later."  OK, this is true, if and only if you can gurantee me today that you will be insurable when the time comes.

In sumary, the need for permanent life is obvious.  You can cover the portions of the LIFE structure mentioned above with term insurance of course, as your needs during the ages of 30-60 are goiung to be quiite signifigant.  But don't tel me for one minute there is no need for permanent insurance, there is always a need, and I hope I have explained this well enough to make sense!

Daryan
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

jpschust

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2004, 08:04:19 PM »
Daryan, I'm going to quote this in the open forum and drive the discussion over to there rather than having it get lost in this thread

Offline Tommy E.

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2004, 02:06:20 PM »
I finsihed a pair of these venhaus cables yesterday and was blown away by the difference it made to the sound of my system.  My system is in no way hi-fi and I can still tell a big difference.  If anyone is considering making these I say do it, you will not regret it.

Offline macdaddy

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2004, 02:07:42 PM »
+t tommy

glad to see this thread get back on-topic!
-macdaddy ++

akg c422 > s42 > lunatec v2 > ad2k+ > roland r-44

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2004, 02:56:13 PM »
I'd be interested to hear what you think about them after a few hundred hours of playback. 
The first rule of amateur neurosurgery club is .... I forget.

Offline Tommy E.

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2004, 03:38:38 PM »
Yeah, I can't wait until they get broke in.  I am just amazed at the difference to my system.  I mean I only have some cerwin vega floor speakers and an old pioneer receiver, not hi-fi

Offline Nick Culbreth

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Re: CAT-5 speaker cable DIY page
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2004, 02:17:31 AM »
I'd be interested to hear what you think about them after a few hundred hours of playback. 

I've been using these cables for about six months and they're really very nice.  As soon as I put them in my system I noticed an immediate and not so subtle difference in the sound.  The highs sounded more natural, the midrange became even smoother, and the bass became tighter and much more defined.  As they've broken in they've become even smoother and musical.  These cables are well worth the amount of work required to make them.

 

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