Topic: VR4JRs?

[scervin]

there are but it takes some software that you must buy. I think the SPL meter is a good start and will identify where you need to begin.  The panels wil take out the echo.  If you can hang them acoss the corners that would be best for the bass as well as echo.  Not much is needed as far as surface area.  My room is 13'x24' and I have 6 panels up 2- 2'x4' and 4 2'x2'.

geting pretty flat response at the moment.

sc

[Nick's Picks]

IMO, from the look of the map you have here, i'd be going w/a long wall configuration where the couch and sub are now.  space them out 10+ feet, or however far you'll be sitting from them. 
the speakers would go on the tall ceiling side, you'll sit on the short ceiling side.
downfall of that plan is that you'll have a wall behind your head.  pad that wall for slap/echo and let it absorb the bass energy.
It may come w/its own issues, but having "no bass" with VR4jrs is like saying you have no balls in your new dodge Viper...as both have bass/balls a go go.  It is there, its your room that needs to be augmented, not the Jrs.

Also, that is a pretty big space for the 4jrs.  I'm sure they are up to the task though.

Scott ...
you lmk when you want to upgrade.  I can swing you a sick-ass deal on some new VR4jrs. 
;-)
Although, the sound you would be getting would be close to what you all ready have...only better. LOTs more bass than the VR2s.  Better imaging w/the mid/tweet being in its own monitor resting on the sub module.
I like those modular speaker designs.  You get all the strenghts of a monitor while adding the power of perfectly matched subs w/o having to deal with adding subs!

[scervin]

To be honest I'm waiting until I can get either the VR-4 III SE or VR-4SR and the matching LCR-40 center.  My plan is to get the front end better and get a powerful amp so I can basically upgrade to whatever I can afford.  I'm thinking speaker upgrade won't happen for several years.  Although I may end up with VR-2's in my current home.  I'd need more space for the larger speakers to really shine.

I may get with you in a few months about some monitors though.
sc.

[Nick's Picks]

Wrong Scott.
I meant S. Brown, or that other fella, Scott B.

But, I can certaily hook you up w/the VR1s if you want them
although hard to find at times, used is the best price on these.  $500-650 is average, and you could sell them for exactly that.
New through me is going to be closer to $800, and you could always sell them for $600 easy.  So its like a $200 investment.
that is how I gage value in my gear.  What I pay for it, and what I can sell it for.  the difference being what it actualy costs me to run them for whatever time period I desire until its time to change up.


there ya go.
the secrete to my sluttyness

[scervin]

 

Too many Scott's in this thread.  I plan on agon, but nobody ever is selling black (need to satisfy the wife).

[scb]

how about a black lcr35?

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1115410966

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Nick,

The long wall configuration has been tried.  1) It won't work because of our need to accomodate guests.  2) The bass suckout is still there.  I ran the thiels and sub in that config for well over a year and the problem is the same.

Originally I was worried that the speakers might be too small.  I auditioned them in a room with about twice the volume of our main seating area and they did fine.  So I know that they can sound right in a big room.

[ducati]

FWIW, the reason I have never liked subs is not due to the accentuation of bass--a good sub will do that very well.  It's just that I have never been able to integrate them without seriously annoying suckouts caused in the frequencies where they cross with the mains...  I always end up with an obvious suckout somewhere, much worse that my in-room response without the subs.  You might be surprised if you measure the in-room response with and without your subs.  Anywho, back OT...  

Long wall can work well, but short wall should be OK here, too.  I have my ProAc D25's short-wall in a essentially 12x37' room (combined kitchen and living room), and I have very few problems with bass nodes/bass power.  I do have some humps here and there, but in the real world we all do.  I have the measurements somewhere...  Can't find them now.

The thing I don't understand is how you would have such a broadband suckout such that all low and midbass up to 180hz would be suppressed.  I have never had a room that did this, and honestly didn't know this could happen as most rooms I've measured have humps and valleys, most often related to "room nodes" that enhance or suppress the bass.

What I did tweak the setup on my speaks was setup a RatShack SPL meter and grabbed my Stereophile Test CD 1.  There are steady tones from bass on up on that CD.  I set the reference to the 1khz tone (I think that's the ref tone on that disc) and then measured the relative output at all the frequencies.  I then had a sheet that when plotted looked alot like JA's in-room measurements in S'phile.  I tried a few different configs, and settled on the one that had enough WAF and the least amount of issues (with nodes, imaging, soundstage, etc).  Honestly it was pretty easy to dial in with respect to bass--the soundstaging proved more difficult.

One thing that was helpful to me was to position the speakers at slightly different distances from the walls (side to side, not front to back obviously!).  This smoothed out the bass response a bit.  But you essentially have that here...

HMMN.  I also used a cool trial version of room-setup software somewhere on the web; I'm not sure if it models sloped ceiling, tho.  I'll see if I can find the link.

[Nick's Picks]

hmm....
one of those sonic mysteries.  every living room has it.
I wish a bass problem was all I had to contend with in my house. 

good luck moving them around.
try talking to VSA and see if they have any suggestions?
just a thought.

[scervin]

"The thing I don't understand is how you would have such a broadband suckout such that all low and midbass up to 180hz would be suppressed.  I have never had a room that did this, and honestly didn't know this could happen as most rooms I've measured have humps and valleys, most often related to "room nodes" that enhance or suppress the bass."

exactly, this is rather odd and why I mentioned picking up a $50 dolar tool that can be used for life.  If all this doesn't work, there are companies out there making bass management software.  Av123.com is going to release RDES this year I hope.  You can adjust curves on the PC and download them into the box.  Good stuff!

sc.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

There are humps and valleys.  Depending on where you stand, you can find different nodes in the room.  However there is an over all attenuation of the lower frequencies.

Again, I did sort of pick the 180hz number based on my familiarity with the AK50 caps and the neumann published response chart.  It may very well be at a different point.


I'll try that SPL tester and let you guys know what I find.

Anyone in the DC area have a tester and who is interested in wasting an afternoon drinking beer and testing my room?

[ducati]

If you need a test disc let me know and I'll mail you my Stereophile disc.

[scervin]

Just remember you are not concerned with "all over the room"  You need to flatten the response at your listening position.  You wil not be able to control everything at once.  Again, just concern yourself with the main seat.

sc.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

If you need a test disc let me know and I'll mail you my Stereophile disc.

I'll take you up on that.  I won't have any time to mess with this until after April, so loan it to me when the KT90s come home.

Just remember you are not concerned with "all over the room".

OK.  Hopefully any improvement in my listening position will affect the rest of the room to an extent. 


Thanks for all the input guys.  This place has been on fire lately.

[ducati]

Will do.  I'll send along Test Disc 3, as well.