Topic: MicroTrack 24/96 Statement from M-Audio

[goose]

phil lucks? signal path taper/archiver???

yes??

he's so dreeeeamy   

[BLOODYJACK]

I seem to remember a rumor that said one of the delays of this product was the fact that the switching supply to create 48v put noise on the inputs at a guess I would say thats your story and 30v is the compromise fix to get this product to market.
That said this is a fantastic product at the right price and if your going to use mics that need 48v at 10ma then you are going to be useing an esoteric pre-amp as well i think a lot of you expect to much for too little money.
To put this in perspective, i am useing a Sound Devices mix-pre as my font end and that cost over $600 dollers just for 2 mic pre,s and no a2d.
No firmware is going to fix this and you can whine as much as you like it is what it is, only a revision to the hardware or maybe a version 2 will fix this, remember the JB3 did not come close for taping untill version 3 and this thing is almost there.

[greenone]

I seem to remember a rumor that said one of the delays of this product was the fact that the switching supply to create 48v put noise on the inputs at a guess I would say thats your story and 30v is the compromise fix to get this product to market.

Y'know, it might not be the best idea to antagonize the guy right after he shows up to show they're listening to and addressing our questions...

[wbrisette]

No firmware is going to fix this and you can whine as much as you like it is what it is, only a revision to the hardware or maybe a version 2 will fix this, remember the JB3 did not come close for taping untill version 3 and this thing is almost there.

Which is along the lines of what I stated in another thread about these devices all being pretty new for most of the companies.

That being said, I wouldn't consider the Earthworks mics that esoteric, in fact the SR-77 and 71 mics have seen a lot of use in the taping community, but they do require the maximum of 10 mA that the Phantom power spec allows. But again, I agree with your statement about having to use a pre-amp with most of the stuff the taping community is doing. It might be fine for a starter rig, but I think eventually to get the best sound folks will either have to add the pre-amp and/or A/D unit if they want to continue with the MicroTrack. However, once you start factoring in the other external devices (if you don't already own one) then you're at a price point where other non-linear recorders are and people might be better served going with one  of them.

Wayne

[Martinusb]

Hello Microtrack-Friends,

I am trying to get one of these devices and want to measure all the properties of the device.
One thing that is strange is the voltage of the phantom power.
Basically there are three different feeding circuits defined in the standard:
48V, using 6,8kOhm feeding resistors
24V, unsing 1,2kOhm feeding resistors
12V, using 680 Ohm resistors.
Did anyone of you measure the voltage of the Microtrack with/without a microphone connected ?
Because of the feeding resistors there will be a voltage drop at the terminals as soon as a microphone is connected and a current is drawn.
The fact is that using a lower voltage will result in a loss of quality, e.g. the sensitivity and maximum SPL of the microphone will be worse than stated in the datasheet. Some microphones might be more noisy or have crackling noise, depending on the circuit design of the microphone.
Some microphones are designed to accept 12/24/48 V, some only accept 48V.

Another issue I am interested in but could not find a specification: what is the maximum uninterrupted recording length ?
Is there a limitation in duration, file size or is the size of the CF card the only limitation ?

Does anyone out there have experiences with recordings during connected power supply ? Does it work properly or is the noise floor affected by the power supply ?

Don´t get me wrong, I think the Microtrack is a really great device. This beats Edirol R-1 by far !
Especially the dual microphone Inputs (plug in power and phantom power) make it a versatile device.


Best regards from Germany

Martinusb

[udovdh]

Another issue I am interested in but could not find a specification: what is the maximum uninterrupted recording length ?

If the 2GB bug is fixed, media is abundant, without pantom, the advertised battery life (8 hours) should be approachble?
Only it is not mentioned under what conditions 8 hours should be reached...
So please specify?

[Ed.]

the 2gb bug isn't exactly fixed, but theres a convenient work-around.  however, they are working on fixing it so the work-around isn't needed.

[WiFiJeff]

the 2gb bug isn't exactly fixed, but theres a convenient work-around.  however, they are working on fixing it so the work-around isn't needed.

For me, the "work-around" doesn't work, at least around 24/96.  At 24/44.1 and a two hour run-time, it's okay, but I simply can't do a reset every 58 minutes or so.  So I'm really hoping this one is fixed ASAP.

Jeff

[JasonSobel]

the 2gb bug isn't exactly fixed, but theres a convenient work-around.  however, they are working on fixing it so the work-around isn't needed.

For me, the "work-around" doesn't work, at least around 24/96.  At 24/44.1 and a two hour run-time, it's okay, but I simply can't do a reset every 58 minutes or so.  So I'm really hoping this one is fixed ASAP.

Jeff

there is no "work-around" yet.  the 2 gig file size limit is a fact.  it isn't something that they'll easily be able to "fix".    Right now, when you re-start a file, you lose somewhere between 5 and 10 seconds.  that's not good enough, I know.  The "work-around" is to have it automatically start a new file when 2 GB is reached, and have no data lost, so that the files can be seamlessly put back together in post editing.

all of the recent indications from M-Audio show that they are aware of the problem and are actively working on a "work-around" for the issue.  hopefully it'll be in the next firmware.

[spyder9]

I think the fix for the 2gb limit should be patterned after the JB3.  The JB3 has a 3 HOUR limit.  Just update the firmware from "file size limit" to "time limit".  The fix for that can't be too complicated.  A phone call from M-Audio to Creative Labs would help point the way.  Just my 2 cents. 

[Simp-Dawg]

Hello Microtrack-Friends,

I am trying to get one of these devices and want to measure all the properties of the device.
One thing that is strange is the voltage of the phantom power.
Basically there are three different feeding circuits defined in the standard:
48V, using 6,8kOhm feeding resistors
24V, unsing 1,2kOhm feeding resistors
12V, using 680 Ohm resistors.
Did anyone of you measure the voltage of the Microtrack with/without a microphone connected ?
Because of the feeding resistors there will be a voltage drop at the terminals as soon as a microphone is connected and a current is drawn.
The fact is that using a lower voltage will result in a loss of quality, e.g. the sensitivity and maximum SPL of the microphone will be worse than stated in the datasheet. Some microphones might be more noisy or have crackling noise, depending on the circuit design of the microphone.
Some microphones are designed to accept 12/24/48 V, some only accept 48V.

Another issue I am interested in but could not find a specification: what is the maximum uninterrupted recording length ?
Is there a limitation in duration, file size or is the size of the CF card the only limitation ?

Does anyone out there have experiences with recordings during connected power supply ? Does it work properly or is the noise floor affected by the power supply ?

Don´t get me wrong, I think the Microtrack is a really great device. This beats Edirol R-1 by far !
Especially the dual microphone Inputs (plug in power and phantom power) make it a versatile device.


Best regards from Germany

Martinusb

read one of the *many* threads on the MT and you'll find answers to your questions

[nickgregory]

I think the fix for the 2gb limit should be patterned after the JB3.  The JB3 has a 3 HOUR limit.  Just update the firmware from "file size limit" to "time limit".  The fix for that can't be too complicated.  A phone call from M-Audio to Creative Labs would help point the way.  Just my 2 cents. 

actually it should be patterend off of the 722 which does it right imo.  It stops and saves the file before 2 Gb is reached and starts a new one, so that they can seamlessly be joined together after the fact, and where they were split was irrelevant, because nothing was lost

[Brian]

jb3 = 16/44.1 or 48.  pretty easy for them to implement a 3 hour limit because it falss under 2GB at that bit depth and sample rate.

remember this is all based upon the 2GB limit....not the amount of time.

or were you just saying that there should be a general "time limit" dependent upon the bit depth and sample rate chosen?

I think the fix for the 2gb limit should be patterned after the JB3.  The JB3 has a 3 HOUR limit.  Just update the firmware from "file size limit" to "time limit".  The fix for that can't be too complicated.  A phone call from M-Audio to Creative Labs would help point the way.  Just my 2 cents. 

[fozzy]

I think the fix for the 2gb limit should be patterned after the JB3.  The JB3 has a 3 HOUR limit.  Just update the firmware from "file size limit" to "time limit".  The fix for that can't be too complicated.  A phone call from M-Audio to Creative Labs would help point the way.  Just my 2 cents. 

actually it should be patterend off of the 722 which does it right imo.  It stops and saves the file before 2 Gb is reached and starts a new one, so that they can seamlessly be joined together after the fact, and where they were split was irrelevant, because nothing was lost

A JB3 in continuous mode behaves the same way, w/ the latest firmware it is seamless.  Difference is now that i encounter files rolling over much more often @ 24/96 (~57:38) vs. the ~3hrs on the JB3.

[spyder9]

I think the fix for the 2gb limit should be patterned after the JB3.  The JB3 has a 3 HOUR limit.  Just update the firmware from "file size limit" to "time limit".  The fix for that can't be too complicated.  A phone call from M-Audio to Creative Labs would help point the way.  Just my 2 cents. 

actually it should be patterend off of the 722 which does it right imo.  It stops and saves the file before 2 Gb is reached and starts a new one, so that they can seamlessly be joined together after the fact, and where they were split was irrelevant, because nothing was lost

What is the purpose of the 2GB limit for either the 722 or the MT?  Over-heating from  manufacturing test failures past the 2 GB continous record?  Seriously, can someone answer that question? Maybe a safety valve for possible unit failure during a long recording?  Save-as-you go feature?  Nice if your ENG, but as a taper, that would make me nervy, even if the split & restart was seamless.

The JB3 3 HOUR max is perfect for our needs for continous taping.  No one plays 3 hours sets.  At least not consistently.  If MT can configure the split under a Time constraint, irregardless of whether your running 44.1/16 or 96/24, it should be just rewriting the section of the firmware.  Granted, I'm no software engineer, bit it would be my wish-solution for this problem.