Topic: Digital SLR Recommendation?

[jlykos]

I am blowıng through film like Trey in a snowstorm and I am wondering if any of you had digital SLR recommendations.  I realize that this topic was addressed some time ago, but I am wondering if anything has changed since then.  I am lookıng at spending under 1000 dollars.  Canon or Nikon is my biggest question.  I also value something easy to use, but with maximum flexibility.  I just do not feel like cycling through 100 menu options to do something simple.

[dmonterisi]

i've owned 3 canon digital xlrs (digital rebel, 10d and now 20d).  i think canon's sensor and processing chips are superior to nikon.  however, the lens that nikon bundles with their consumer dslr's is excellent.  the 18-55 lens that comes with base canon packages is okay, but nothing great.  the 17-85 step-up lens is supposedly a bit better optically.  the entire canon lens line, however, is superior in its breadth and quality.  I would definitely go with canon.  are you willing to buy used?

[OFOTD]

I am such a novice at taking pictures but I bought a Canon Rebel XT and absolutely love it.  I need to read the instruction book alot more but for the pull it our of the box and start shooting it has worked awesome.

Mine has been problem free and has helped me to take some of the best pictures I have ever taken.  I'm actually taking it to Mexico next week on vacation so it should get some heavy use hopefully.

[jpschust]

I'd suggest a used Canon 20D.  Amazing cameras, especially for the price.  All the canon units can be set in simple modes.  I've used the nikons- I don't like their lens selection, I hate how the nikons feel in my hand, and I cannot for the life of me get the digi nikons to get the white balance correct.

[Ed.]

how much does a used 20d usually go for?  I'm looking at DSLR's too.  I was thinking I'd get a nikon d50 just to get in the game, but I'm thinking it might just be better to get a good camera now rather than buy another one a year from now.

[MattD]

Let me know if anyone's interested in a Digital Rebel, though I probably won't sell it until this summer. I'm looking to go 1-series next, but I need a job to facilitate that.

[phanophish]

DMonteseri has some excelent info for you.  Are you hoping to do concert photos?  If so, look for low light performance.  What lenses/system are you currently using?  If you already have a ton of gear, choosing a system that can reuse your lenses can make a big difference if you have a significant investment in glass.  I have a D70 and really like it, but I do think Canon's sensors tend to perform better in low light, although the new D50 sensor does a better job than the D70.  As I remember the Canons will also go to ASA100 for bright daylight if you want to shoot larger apertures.  I'll also second the advice that the Nikon kit lens is very good while the Canon is not so great.  So if you go the Canon route you might just get a body and buy a good lens seperately. Both the Canon and Nikon have very good menus and you will be happy either way there.  I love digital and can't imagine going back to film.  The ease of shooting, low cost, and flexibility are unbeatable.  Just be ready to buy lots of DVDs for archiving.

[jpschust]

how much does a used 20d usually go for?  I'm looking at DSLR's too.  I was thinking I'd get a nikon d50 just to get in the game, but I'm thinking it might just be better to get a good camera now rather than buy another one a year from now.

often well under 1k.

[jpschust]

Let me know if anyone's interested in a Digital Rebel, though I probably won't sell it until this summer. I'm looking to go 1-series next, but I need a job to facilitate that.

matt takes good care of his stuff.  he also shoots more than me, especially since i'm sans body at the moment.

[OFOTD]

Hey do any of you guys have any good sites for the beginner photographer?  I have fried my brain reading through fredmiranda.com    I am looking for some real easy tips/tricks/tutorials. 

Thanks in advance!

[Ed.]

how much does a used 20d usually go for?  I'm looking at DSLR's too.  I was thinking I'd get a nikon d50 just to get in the game, but I'm thinking it might just be better to get a good camera now rather than buy another one a year from now.

often well under 1k.

I see that.  Looks like I might get one.  Is buying a camera used a pretty safe thing to do?

[MattD]

So long as you buy from a place where you know people take care of their stuff - same reason I'd get recording gear from here or gearslutz, for example. I've had nothing but good experiences with the sale board at fredmiranda.com.

[Ed.]

yep, fredmiranda is probably where i'll buy from.  i lurk there on occasion and have heard good things about others buying there in the past.

[jpschust]

look for high post counts.  also search their name in the buy and sell forum.  best ways to do your research.  bad sellers don't stick around there long.

[Busman Audio]

B&H sells used equipment for a good price and rates the condition very well so you know what to expect. I bought my Canon Digital rebel from them and it was like new.

[Ed.]

ok, you guys sold me on canon over nikon idea...however, now i'm debating if i should get the rebel xt or the 20d.  obviously the 20d is a better camera, but would it justify the extra money?

I have an old canon rebel slr that used to suit my needs for college photography classes, but now i'm trying to up the bar a bit and get me something that'll last awhile.  Do ya think the xt will work, or should i spend the extra money and get the better model?

[jpschust]

ok, you guys sold me on canon over nikon idea...however, now i'm debating if i should get the rebel xt or the 20d.  obviously the 20d is a better camera, but would it justify the extra money?

I have an old canon rebel slr that used to suit my needs for college photography classes, but now i'm trying to up the bar a bit and get me something that'll last awhile.  Do ya think the xt will work, or should i spend the extra money and get the better model?

that's something you will have to decide for yourself, but i like the expansive options of the 20d.  your old canon rebel's lenses will work with the current bodies by the way.  the build of the 20d is significantly better than the rebel imho and that's a big deal to me.

[Ed.]

good info.  won't the aspect ratio (i think thats what i mean) be off using an old film lens vs the new lenses for digitals?

perhaps i'll go into the local camera shop and play with both of them.  I'm sure I'll end up spending the scratch on a 20d tho, might as well get the better in the situation.

[jpschust]

good info.  won't the aspect ratio (i think thats what i mean) be off using an old film lens vs the new lenses for digitals?

perhaps i'll go into the local camera shop and play with both of them.  I'm sure I'll end up spending the scratch on a 20d tho, might as well get the better in the situation.

no, the crop factor is in the sensor, not the lens.

as long as they arent f series lenses (from the early 80's/late 70's) then they will work- all eos lenses basically work with eos bodies.

[HBK216]

Honestly I'd look at the Nikon D70. The D70 compares in quality to even some of the higher priced SLR's & cost so much less. I am sure you would find a good % of pros who would tell you it is better compared to most Canon's. If you are ever on Ebay, you can pick up a good deal (on any type) from Cameta Camera. They are a well known store in Long Island & they have a huge Ebay following as well. You can usually get a ton of great deals on factory demos which are practically brand new cameras. As far as sites go, I'd check out the Dpreview forums as the people who post there are very helpful no matter how many questions you may have.

[jpschust]

Honestly I'd look at the Nikon D70. The D70 compares in quality to even some of the higher priced SLR's & cost so much less. I am sure you would find a good % of pros who would tell you it is better compared to most Canon's. If you are ever on Ebay, you can pick up a good deal (on any type) from Cameta Camera. They are a well known store in Long Island & they have a huge Ebay following as well. You can usually get a ton of great deals on factory demos which are practically brand new cameras. As far as sites go, I'd check out the Dpreview forums as the people who post there are very helpful no matter how many questions you may have.

The biggest problem with the D70 is that the build quality is rather lacking and it is nearly impossible to get the white balance correct.  The AWB is awful in that thing.  This isn't a Canon/Nikon thing- I've used both quite a bit.

BTW, I use dpreview's forums from time to time, but I find the fredmiranda forums to be more on topic, a little gentler, and generally to be more informative.

[Ed.]

one negative side of the d70 is 6.1mp, the 8.3 that you get with canon's is appealing.

[jpschust]

one negative side of the d70 is 6.1mp, the 8.3 that you get with canon's is appealing.

i highly suggest not using mp as your deciding factor unless you intend on blowing images up larger than 16x20.

[dmonterisi]

one negative side of the d70 is 6.1mp, the 8.3 that you get with canon's is appealing.

i highly suggest not using mp as your deciding factor unless you intend on blowing images up larger than 16x20.

that's not entirely true, imo.  the extra mp do not only pertain to the final print size.  there is increased resolution and detail in all aspects of how the sensor resolves the image.  so the extra 33% in resolution is quite important, imo.  additionally, the extra pixels will allow for larger prints from cropped images.

additionally, the 20d/drebxt has better AF than the d70, better low light performance, much better high ISO performance and the 20d/drebxt goes down to ISO 100, while i believe the d70 cannot go below iso 200.

[Ed.]

yeah, 6.1 would be fine for me...however, i can take classes for free since i work at a university, so i plan on taking some photography classes to get me back in the swing of things.  the photography professor recommended canon to begin with because of the extra mp's, since we will be blowing things up, cropping and whatnot in the class.

My original plan was the d50 because i could afford it now, however, i can't get into any photo classes until next fall anyway, so i might as well hold out and get something better.

[Ed.]

...the d50 actually has better lowlight performance than the d70, thats one of the main reasons why i was looking at it over the d70.  thought it'd be better for concert photos

[jpschust]

one negative side of the d70 is 6.1mp, the 8.3 that you get with canon's is appealing.

i highly suggest not using mp as your deciding factor unless you intend on blowing images up larger than 16x20.

that's not entirely true, imo.  the extra mp do not only pertain to the final print size.  there is increased resolution and detail in all aspects of how the sensor resolves the image.  so the extra 33% in resolution is quite important, imo.  additionally, the extra pixels will allow for larger prints from cropped images.

additionally, the 20d/drebxt has better AF than the d70, better low light performance, much better high ISO performance and the 20d/drebxt goes down to ISO 100, while i believe the d70 cannot go below iso 200.

when I was enlarging from 5mp (canon powershot) on my epson 4000, after the basic run of photoshopping I couldn't really see any digital artifacts from the enlargement- interpolation was key though.  this was for a 16x20.  i can't go much larger than that on the 4000.  Though if you know someone who wants a 4000 let me know

[Ed.]

all my printing will be done on the schools computers...for free!  woot!

[dmonterisi]

...the d50 actually has better lowlight performance than the d70, thats one of the main reasons why i was looking at it over the d70.  thought it'd be better for concert photos

the difference between the 10d and 20d at high ISO is really astounding.  for concert shots at 1600, i don't even feel the need to run any noise reduction any more.  if you are going to be doing any concert shooting, waiting for the 20d or drebxt is definitely a good idea.

jonny- you're missing my point, i'm saying the 8mp sensor is just a better sensor all around, and the additional resolution has a lot to do with this.  it allows for much greater dynamic range in your images as well as much more detailed and sharp photos.  the images are all around more crisp than the 10d sensor's.  IMO, the second generation digic sensor and processing chips were a gigantic step forward in the digital slr world, just from my own experience.

[Ed.]

good info damon.  i'm sure i'll be bugging you guys more and more as the purchase gets closer.

sounds like the 20d is what i need.

[jpschust]

jonny- you're missing my point, i'm saying the 8mp sensor is just a better sensor all around, and the additional resolution has a lot to do with this.  it allows for much greater dynamic range in your images as well as much more detailed and sharp photos.  the images are all around more crisp than the 10d sensor's.  IMO, the second generation digic sensor and processing chips were a gigantic step forward in the digital slr world, just from my own experience.

You are correct in that it is a newer sensor that added dynamic range as well as detail versus the 10d.  a lot of this depends on comparing apples to apples- the nikon sensors, while ccd's like the canon sensors are totally different beasts. 

by the way, if you want to see something really impressive- look at how the 10d, 20d and 5d all handle shots in low light at 1600 ISO.  That will give you some semblence of how far we have come in sensor technology.

[HBK216]

The MP don't really matter & as far as better low light performance goes, it isn't the body but the lens used. I have taken nice lowlight concert photos at iso 200 & the Nikon 50mm 1.8 which is probably the best quality to price lens out there.

[jpschust]

The MP don't really matter & as far as better low light performance goes, it isn't the body but the lens used.

yes and no- not entirely true in the digital camera realm.  a 50 f/1.8 stopped to f/4 for sharpness at 1600 looks different on a 10d, a 20d, a d70 (with adapter), a 5d, and a d60.  They all process low light images with different digital artifacts.

[adubphoto]

I've always used spot metering for my concert shots. But very few of the cannons have that feature. What metering mode should be used if you dont have spot?

[jpschust]

I've always used spot metering for my concert shots. But very few of the cannons have that feature. What metering mode should be used if you dont have spot?

well it depends on the canon- I always use single point metering and pick my focus point.  Half click to get my meter and my focus, adjust if neccesary.  One of the nicest parts of the pro series bodies is 45 points to choose from.

[BCostigan]

  They all process low light images with different digital artifacts.

That's the key right there.


I'll jump on the Canon bandwagon as well.  I started with the Nikon D70 but just wasn't pleased with what I was getting out of it.  I then moved to a Canon 20D and love it.....only thing better for me is the 5D.  I hate the 1.6x crop.     I can't wait for Canon to put out a full frame DSLR for under $1500.....

[cpatch]

I've always used spot metering for my concert shots. But very few of the cannons have that feature.

That seems surprising...even my Canon S2 IS has spot metering.

Craig