Topic: Denon 2910 Universal player?

[dmonterisi]

I am curious, but can you post it as I have signatures turned off so that they are hidden.

if you are using the internal DACs on the 2910, why would you think the unit might be downsampling the data?

[Stagger]

Current Setup: MK41>KC5(thanks Hubie)>CMC6>V2>722

Old Setup ('01>'05) AKG c34>S42>Sonosax or EAA PSP2>AD1K>D-10ProI

Playback: Denon DVD2910>Audio Experiences Symphonies Tube Pre>Rogue 88 [KT88s, ultralinear]>Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home - AudioQuest Jaguar and CV-8 DBS cable, Panamax M5510Pro conditioner.

Tascam DA-20> P. Millett Prototype Hybrid Tube Headphone Amp>Clou Red Cable>HD-600s or E4Cs


I don't know... I'm just not sure how it processes DVD-V audio data. There are other units that use separate algorhythims for different data streams. I also don't know of a way to check the actuall data output of DVD Audio Creator to make sure the files are bit perfect.

[nickgregory]

what I can tell with DVD-V discs is that the sample rate transferred from my Pioneer Elite DV45A via SPDIF to my Sony 3000ES is that it receives a 96 Khz stream (the receiver shows that the sample rate it receives...though not bit depth.  The only other way I have for comparison is to listen to the 16Bit then the 24Bit and the sound is vastly different...both via SPDIF...not slightly different so that you could attribute it to a dithering process...but significant...deeper and wider soundstage and significantly better instrument definition across the range...but as I said, outside of the sample rate that the receiver is reporting it receives, my ears are my only other method for confirming 24 bit playback

[dmonterisi]

I don't know... I'm just not sure how it processes DVD-V audio data. There are other units that use separate algorhythims for different data streams. I also don't know of a way to check the actuall data output of DVD Audio Creator to make sure the files are bit perfect.

i highly doubt it is resampling prior to converting to analog.  there is just no need to put that step in there when the box has a 24/192 DAC, at least not at the level of a $750 box.

what I can tell with DVD-V discs is that the sample rate transferred from my Pioneer Elite DV45A via SPDIF to my Sony 3000ES is that it receives a 96 Khz stream (the receiver shows that the sample rate it receives...though not bit depth.  The only other way I have for comparison is to listen to the 16Bit then the 24Bit and the sound is vastly different...both via SPDIF...not slightly different so that you could attribute it to a dithering process...but significant...deeper and wider soundstage and significantly better instrument definition across the range...but as I said, outside of the sample rate that the receiver is reporting it receives, my ears are my only other method for confirming 24 bit playback

i'm sure it's not dithering but not resampling.  so it's nearly 100% that it's 24/96.

[nickgregory]

I don't know... I'm just not sure how it processes DVD-V audio data. There are other units that use separate algorhythims for different data streams. I also don't know of a way to check the actuall data output of DVD Audio Creator to make sure the files are bit perfect.

i highly doubt it is resampling prior to converting to analog.  there is just no need to put that step in there when the box has a 24/192 DAC, at least not at the level of a $750 box.

what I can tell with DVD-V discs is that the sample rate transferred from my Pioneer Elite DV45A via SPDIF to my Sony 3000ES is that it receives a 96 Khz stream (the receiver shows that the sample rate it receives...though not bit depth.  The only other way I have for comparison is to listen to the 16Bit then the 24Bit and the sound is vastly different...both via SPDIF...not slightly different so that you could attribute it to a dithering process...but significant...deeper and wider soundstage and significantly better instrument definition across the range...but as I said, outside of the sample rate that the receiver is reporting it receives, my ears are my only other method for confirming 24 bit playback

i'm sure it's not dithering but not resampling.  so it's nearly 100% that it's 24/96.

yeah, what I was trying to say is the difference that I hear in the same recording, one at 16 bit and one at 24 bit (recorded on DVD-V) is significant and I wasnt willing to attribute that to the fact that my dither process made the 16 Bit sound inferior...so I am left with the assumption that I am getting all 24 bits transfered on playback.  That coupled with the fact that I am receiving the right sample rate makes me comfortable that I am getting 24/96 via DVD-V, even though I cant point to a light or status message telling me so.

[Stagger]

Well all this bodes well for my car system. I put a Alpine DVD deck in my car to play DVD-A. It will not play DVD-A but it does play DVD-V so every show I get now I have to burn a DVD-A for home and a DVD-V for my car. I had been concerned that it was doing something screwy but as I think it through in light of this discussion it makes sense that it would just D>A it and be done... No matter what, it is nice being able to listen to nothing but 24/96 where ever I am. 

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

Can anyone tell me if the Denon 2900/2910 has digital audio output of Stereo at 24 bit with 192kHz sampling rate ?
TIA

no, looking at page 13 of the manual, it downsamples 24/192 material to 24/96 for the digi-out.

additionally, it will not output over 16/48 for any copyrighted PCM material.

Can anyone tell me if the Denon 2900/2910 has digital audio output of Stereo at 24 bit with 192kHz sampling rate ?
TIA

I'm using my Grace m902 as a DAC and pre, to be quite honest I like the sound of the 2910 via the analog output better than digital>m902.  To me it's a non-issue since I prefer the analog out.  If I could find some DVD burning software that wasn't a total pain in the ass to use I might be able to test and try.

curious about this statement...what is the rest of your system?  I have never heard one of those grace boxes, but if the denon outperforms it, i may have to look at this player.  anyone else using a grace headphone amp/DAC as a pre-amp?  do all-in-one boxes typically sound better than it as a front end?

The rest of my system is as follows:

Denon 2910 analog ---> m902 (preferred the analog over digital, which makes me happy because swapping from pc/Denon is a pain)
Tascam DVRA balanced ---> m902
 PC dig coax ---> m902

Swapped between the following amps: B&K ST-202 plus (currently), AQ1001DT (like the high end of the AQ slightly better, plus it's an integrated so 2 volume controls can be a pain.

Speakers: B&W 705's and an Outlaw Audio LFM-1plus

through the analog out the Denon seems to sound a bit more lively, slightly colored, the m902 a bit dry, maybe analytical. (perhaps due to it's purpose as a reference unit)  Additionally the 2910 can do HDCD decoding, something the m902 cannot, a much more dramatic difference can be heard here.

[dmonterisi]

cool.  While i haven't heard one, I generally question the use of the grace DAC/headphone amp as a stand-alone pre.  and i kinda think your experience with the 2910 illustrates that.  The grace boxes are designed to be extremely detailed and precise so that when the signal is fed through a pre-amp, the pre-amp is getting a very precise uncolored signal.  It makes sense to me that it would sound "dry" or "clinical" when being used as a standalone pre-amp.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

cool.  While i haven't heard one, I generally question the use of the grace DAC/headphone amp as a stand-alone pre.  and i kinda think your experience with the 2910 illustrates that.  The grace boxes are designed to be extremely detailed and precise so that when the signal is fed through a pre-amp, the pre-amp is getting a very precise uncolored signal.  It makes sense to me that it would sound "dry" or "clinical" when being used as a standalone pre-amp.

As a pre it's great, at least that I can have 3-4 different devices going to it and remote volume control.  I LOVE it as a headphone amp, it's just amazing in that reguard.  I don't have any experience with any other pres for comparison sake, but as a pre it's near perfect for what I want/need and it makes for a compact system, no need for a monster rack.

[BobW]

"And remember, I'm not only the priesident... I'm also a client..."

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